Epic Games Store Launches on iPhone in EU, Brings Fortnite Back to iOS

[Abazigal]

That's a good thing, no? That's why we want to have a competition. If Apple wants to keep the developers, they have to lower the fees.

I don’t think Apple particularly cares. They survived the absence of Fortnite on iOS after all.

Instead, the ones being inconvenienced are the consumers, who have to install a third party App Store just to access an app which has no reason not being in the App Store (it doesn’t make use of banned APIs or feature controversial content; Epic is simply trying to incentivise users to download their App Store).

This has nothing to do with competition, and Epic is not the hero of their own story. Epic has never been in this to empower developers or benefit consumers (how exactly are the latter better off from having to access Fortnite via third party App Store vs simply adhering to iOS app store rules and keeping said app available.

The irony in calling us Apple sheep. You were all but pawns then in Epic’s very public spat with Apple, just as you are all pawns now. Your promised utopia will not come.

 

[dynamojoe]

So what’s your problem then? Nobody forces you to use different stores.

Yet.

But some day you'll have to pay for parking or a laundromat or some damn thing somewhere and it will require an app from a different store than your usual. Good luck making an informed decision about the privacy policy, refund policy, security policy, update policy, and billing practices of this new store while essentially downloading an app to download an app to make your purchase. If they're saving the developer a percentage over Apple's cut you can be damn sure they're making it somewhere else, like selling your email address/buying habits/ location to interested fourth parties.

 

[icanhazmac]

Yeah, one stop search would be great.

Please don‘t let it be provided by Apple though - cause their search in the App Store is a hot pile of garbage.
I never use the App Store functionality - always the web or a few trusted sites.

Every single app I have "researched" on iOS have come from the Apple store. I have no issues with it. Granted, others have come to my attention by word of mouth or other advertising but not a single one has come from a common web search. 🤢🤮

If only the Mac store was the same as the iOS store. 😍 Everything in one place! Now, finding apps for my Mac, that is some hot garbage! Open safari, search, one tab per app, try to compare, more tabs for good reviews, give my personal and payment information to 20 different companies... that sucks!

 

[Naraxus]

No, I own my iPhone, therefor I should be able do what I want. If Apple doesn't want to let me download others apps, they should provide a way to let me replace the OS.

It needs to be one or the other.



It doesn't matter why. I'm against closed platforms across the board. No exceptions.

You CAN do whatever you want with the hardware so have at it. Drop it, burn it, throw it against the wall, drown it whatever.

You do not, as @I7guy pointed out, own the software.

 

[Naraxus]

You're missing the point; I own the hardware. That's all the matters, end of story. Apple doesn't own it, I do. I didn't license the hardware, or rent it, or finance it, I bought it.

No company should be able to dictate what I do with my possessions. Not a single one.

If anyone is missing the point, it's you. I don't know how many times or how many posters need to point this out to you but you DO NOT OWN THE SOFTWARE.

You own the hardware yes, so go do whatever you want to with it. The software you're licensing which you agreed to when you bought the phone.

 

[I7guy]

[…]


Legislators and regulators will take care of that and force Apple to open up.

Some places.

Give me another downvote or lol emoji all you want.
Within ten years, you’re going to have it in the U.S. as well (See how optimistic I’m being there, lol?).

Ok. In our lifetime there will be laws we like laws we don’t.

 

[falainber]

I don't find it a good thing at all. I don't want 50 app stores on my devices... ok that was hyperbole, but one could be required to have Epic, Steam, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta, Google, etc on their device. Every one of these stores has all your personal info, hoovers more data from your device(s), payment info and we will lose the following:

1) One stop shop for app searches and reviews. There is nothing fun about web searching for apps.
2) One stop shop for purchase/payments. If only 1 processor has your info you are less likely to experience a "breach" than if 20 stores and sites have your payment info.
3) One stop shop for managing subs.
4) One stop shop for updates
5) Data privacy scorecards. Do you really think any of the above stores will require these as Apple did? Meta isn't going to tell you 💩 about what they are collecting.
etc.

Add to this list the number of apps that will go it alone on their sites because they feel they are big enough or because they thing the PC/Mac way is better. Now you have even more data scattered around the web using god knows what payment processor.

None of this is good for consumers, prices for consumers will not come down, privacy is sacrificed, experience suffers.

Would you also prefer to have one grocery store? More importantly, it's not about you. App developers are actually the ones who develop the apps andd Apple has been robbing them for many years. That's not good for the society at large. Also, Apple has been banning all sorts of apps left and right. Not anymore. So, the users win too. Too many Apple defenders here are AAPL share holders so they defend their wallets. These people can stick with App Store for as long as they want.

 

[falainber]

I don’t think Apple particularly cares. They survived the absence of Fortnite on iOS after all.

Instead, the ones being inconvenienced are the consumers, who have to install a third party App Store just to access an app which has no reason not being in the App Store (it doesn’t make use of banned APIs or feature controversial content; Epic is simply trying to incentivise users to download their App Store).

This has nothing to do with competition, and Epic is not the hero of their own story. Epic has never been in this to empower developers or benefit consumers (how exactly are the latter better off from having to access Fortnite via third party App Store vs simply adhering to iOS app store rules and keeping said app available.

The irony in calling us Apple sheep. You were all but pawns then in Epic’s very public spat with Apple, just as you are all pawns now. Your promised utopia will not come.

You conveniently "forgot" the third side in this process - the app developers. Apple has been eating their lunch for too long. As a result, the money that would otherwise went into development of new apps, went to Apple that has been wasting them left and right (billions on Apple car, billions on AVP, billions on share buybacks etc.) Monopolies do this, they cause waste.

 

[LonerATO]

If you read the text it states: reason for initial rejection or delay. GTA Chinatown is also available.

Okay, see that now. I just looked at the initial bullet points and did not go further.

 

[falainber]

what fee would be acceptable to you?

And how did you arrive at that fee? you know all the costs in setting up the store and running it?

And we all know who the current store compares to the old retail chain model. Even 30% is a huge improvement over what software devs youd to be charged back in pre AppStore days.

There is only one mechanism for establishing a fair fee. It's called market and competition. And it working now so wexll know soon what the right fee is. BTW, in pre-appstore days, one could get the apps for smarphones (Symbian OS) from CNET. A lot of them were freeware and shareware. CNET did not charge app developers any fees for any apps (free or paid). Comparing app store to software sold in Best Buy on CDs is ridiculous. Ask Apple, they will explain to you the difference between digital goods and non-digital goods.

 

[falainber]

Said another way: if the devs want their revenue stream on iOS, they have to stick with apple. Let ‘em go to android.

As an analogy,
If Honda wants to sell more cars, they should lower the price. No?

Said another way: if the devs want their revenue stream on macOS they have to stick with Apple... Wait, they don’t.
BTW, Play Store already has 2x more apps than App Store (3.5 million vs 1.8 million).

 

[Abazigal]

You conveniently "forgot" the third side in this process - the app developers. Apple has been eating their lunch for too long. As a result, the money that would otherwise went into development of new apps, went to Apple that has been wasting them left and right (billions on Apple car, billions on AVP, billions on share buybacks etc.) Monopolies do this, they cause waste.

Gotta spend money to make money.

I hardly consider Apple a monopoly when there is android, PCs and consoles, at least where gaming is concerned. Apple isn’t the only platform taking a cut of sales revenue from apps, so I refuse to accept that Apple is the only one at fault for a practice that is basically industry-wide.

 

[wbeasley]

Any single legal case supporting this.

This is exactly how the jailbreaking community have done things since day 1. No help, not manuals; just figuring out how it works to do something else with it.

iOS is provided for free… by Apple. You can download it in iTunes…. If Apple was selling it you would have a point.

And the Federal government even agreed in 2010.
https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/

you want to use Apple OS in any way, then you are using their licenced software.

you wanted to use the hardware for whatever, great, use it.
but explain why Apple should support you with the software to use the device in any way other than the plug in a USB port and let you load whatever software that isnt Apple's to run on the device?

Apple are under no obligation to provide their software to you.
You want your cake and to eat it too.

Just because there was a case allowing jailbreaking, does not mean Apple needs to go along and provide you the software to use their code...
Could it really be that you want all the Apple code but then just to add whatever BITS Apple doesnt allow?

If you complain then you should be called out on your reasoning.
For all your endless arguments, perhaps finally we get to what you really want.
Which isnt as stated "I bought the hardware and should be able to install what I want".

I am extremely happy to support you in that endeavour.
But I fail to see why that still entitles you to use Apple's licenced code for free.

You want to use the device however you want? Knock yourself out and develop and entire ecosystem or Android port and do it. But dont expect Apple to do all the hard work for you. For free.

 

[wbeasley]

Said another way: if the devs want their revenue stream on macOS they have to stick with Apple... Wait, they don’t.
BTW, Play Store already has 2x more apps than App Store (3.5 million vs 1.8 million).

ANd the point of this argument is what?

No one is installing even 1.8 million apps.
And for all the 3.5 million, Apple devs still make more money that selling in Android because Apple users spend more, trust apps to be vetted better and trust the walled garden more than Android stores.

 

[mrochester]

You conveniently "forgot" the third side in this process - the app developers. Apple has been eating their lunch for too long. As a result, the money that would otherwise went into development of new apps, went to Apple that has been wasting them left and right (billions on Apple car, billions on AVP, billions on share buybacks etc.) Monopolies do this, they cause waste.

You’re forgetting that the app developer gets 70% of the money. They’ve got loads of money to invest in new app development.

 

[wbeasley]

Gotta spend money to make money.

I hardly consider Apple a monopoly when there is android, PCs and consoles, at least where gaming is concerned. Apple isn’t the only platform taking a cut of sales revenue from apps, so I refuse to accept that Apple is the only one at fault for a practice that is basically industry-wide.

Selling stuff, online or in a store, is the backbone of economics.
Turning raw materials or knowledge into useful products you can sell.
Seems some people expect everything for free.

Once we used to PAY for OS upgrades.
Hard to remember that now and all we get for nothing.
But some people want more and more for nothing it seems...

 

[wbeasley]

Any single legal case supporting this.

This is exactly how the jailbreaking community have done things since day 1. No help, not manuals; just figuring out how it works to do something else with it.

iOS is provided for free… by Apple. You can download it in iTunes…. If Apple was selling it you would have a point.

And the Federal government even agreed in 2010.
https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/

Jailbreaking still used Apple's code.
Just made a workaround to load other apps.

Why should Apple allow you to use their code?
The sell you the hardware, they licence the OS...

 

[falainber]

Gotta spend money to make money.

I hardly consider Apple a monopoly when there is android, PCs and consoles, at least where gaming is concerned. Apple isn’t the only platform taking a cut of sales revenue from apps, so I refuse to accept that Apple is the only one at fault for a practice that is basically industry-wide.

Your (and my) opinion on the subject hardly matters. Judge rulled that Google was a monopolist a couple of weeks ago and DOJ is already mulling break up of Google. DOJ's antitrust suit against Apple is in process. Also, industry-wide practices sometimes come about as a result of illegal agreements. I would know, I got a significant sum of money as a result of the High-Tech Employee Antitrust Litigation, Apple was one of the companies that paid this money.

 

[Abazigal]

Your (and my) opinion on the subject hardly matters. Judge rulled that Google was a monopolist a couple of weeks ago and DOJ is already mulling break up of Google. DOJ's antitrust suit against Apple is in process. Also, industry-wide practices sometimes come about as a result of illegal agreements. I would know, I got a significant sum of money as a result of the High-Tech Employee Antitrust Litigation, Apple was one of the companies that paid this money.

I doubt anything meaningful will come out of these lawsuits, but like you said, we are just random people debating on the internet.

 

[wbeasley]

You’re forgetting that the app developer gets 70% of the money. They’ve got loads of money to invest in new app development.

We had an import business.

The retail price accounted could be split up as 30-35% cost of good landed in Australia.
30-35% mark up to distributors around the country with retail stores.
A further 30-40% markup to end customer.

Edit: Manufacturer makes something for 50 cents, We buy something For $1, sell it to distributor for $2, customer pays $3.

Worked well for decades.
So Apple getting 15-30% is extremely good value for all they do.

 

[mrochester]

We had an import business.

The retail price accounted could be split up as 30-35% cost of good landed in Australia.
30-35% mark up to distributors around the country with retail stores.
A further 30-40% markup to end customer.

Edit: Manufacturer makes something for 50 cents, We buy something For $1, sell it to distributor for $2, customer pays $3.

Worked well for decades.
So Apple getting 15-30% is extremely good value for all they do.

My view is that if you don’t have a sustainable business earning 70% of sale price then you either need to raise your prices or you don’t have a product worth the money, amd it’s right that it should fail and you go out of business.

 

[wbeasley]

My view is that if you don’t have a sustainable business earning 70% of sale price then you either need to raise your prices or you don’t have a product worth the money, amd it’s right that it should fail and you go out of business.

exactly.

Some people want to charge huge markups. Sometimes for novel items you can.
We would buy small gold jewelery pieces for 10 cents and retail for $3.
A brush for $3 and retail for $30.
These were rare though. You made a killing for a while.
And even then competitors sold similar brushes for $120.
It's what people THINK something is worth to them and good value.

Sustainable businesses have good margins that get them through tough times.
And charge ENOUGH to stay profitable.

 

[wbeasley]

i'm just glad after months of beating around the bush we now know exactly what some people want.

it's now clear: to buy an Apple device, use Apple's store and code WHEN THEY WANT and then add in non approved things whenever they want.

no more pretending and arguments around the topic of "it's my hardware". etc.

Apple's software is licenced to you for free to use as Apple wants.
Not what you want.

If that doesn't meet your needs, you should buy something else and not expect Apple to support your minority action.

 

[mrochester]

exactly.

Some people want to charge huge markups. Sometimes for novel items you can.
We would buy small gold jewelery pieces for 10 cents and retail for $3.
A brush for $3 and retail for $30.
These were rare though. You made a killing for a while.
And even then competitors sold similar brushes for $120.
It's what people THINK something is worth to them and good value.

Sustainable businesses have good margins that get them through tough times.
And charge ENOUGH to stay profitable.

App developers operate in a hugely competitive market, despite what many of them claim about lack of competition.

 

[falainber]

You’re forgetting that the app developer gets 70% of the money. They’ve got loads of money to invest in new app development.

The developer also pays 100% of development costs whereas Apple pays 0%. There are very few apps in the App Store that bring enough money so that 70% was enough to sustain even a single developer. It's the developer who invests the time and money and bears all the risk. Apple does not do any of it.