Epic Games Submits Fortnite to U.S. App Store

[djphat2000]

If a Chinese company couldn’t compete
Then why do they have 1 billion users?

You can’t buy huawei in the west and that’s not because it’s a bad product
Because if you actually look at it there products go toe to toe with major tech companies

If as you claim then why is it in one country
There is 3 mobile OS’s and Apple are in 3rd place there.

Yet in everywhere else you only have two choices now why is it different in one country compared with the rest of the world
Why is there competition there but not anywhere else.

They (China) subsidize their industries. And they have a population that is about or above 1 billion people. So it's fairly easy to have a sizable market share from a home grown company when you have that many people to sell it to. As they can make that phone cheaper than any android or iPhone could be. People there still buy others phones though.

You can't buy Huawei in the west because they have spyware built into the hardware of their devices. And there OS is reverse engineered or just a straight up copy of Android. Minus some verbiage mentioning Android.

Why Was Huawei Banned? A Look into the Telecoms Giant | EM360Tech

While it may now be one of the world’s biggest smartphone sellers, no tech company has stirred up quite as much controversy as Huawei. The Chinese conglomerate, a global leader in cutting-edge 5G technology and smartphones, continues to rattle Western governments and lawmakers as its influence...

em360tech.com

I personally can't prove a negative on this one. There may be some merit to them spying with their communication devices. Or they could have used it as a reason to make a ban. But they did pretty much copy Android, and only recently (maybe) changed it enough to not be considered a copy.

You have 2 options in the rest of the world, because that is what people picked. Blame Microsoft and Blackberry for failing to be numbers 3 and 4. And HP/Palm for being a 5th option. Facebook and Amazon both took a stab at it, and failed too. It's not because Apple is doing anything wrong.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

On October 22, 2024, Huawei announced at its HarmonyOS NEXT 5 event that the HarmonyOS platform has active 1 billionusers

It doesn’t matter if they couldn’t use google as they where already in the process of launching their own OS
What it essentially done was not allow them to compete in the west

HarmonyOS in 2019 was initially based on code from the Android Open Source Project (AOSP). They had to launch their own OS because they couldn’t use Android or Google services. They didn’t have any plans to launch their own OS, it was intended for IT of things etc

HarmonOS =/=HarmonyOS NEXT

Unlike Android-based HarmonyOS versions 1 to 4 (2019-2024) and the global market EMUI operating system, the Next version (starting with HarmonyOS Next 5) does not include the Android AOSP core framework with Android libraries from EMUI in the user space and cannot run apk apps natively and is incompatible with Android applications.

 

[djphat2000]

It's 0% in PC/Mac software sales. As Mobile starts replacing desktop sales, I think that's where developers see it as a Apple having too much control.

Kind of like having a food truck, vs having a full sit down restaurant in a Mall. There are pro's and cons to each, but I would argue as a consumer. I purchase a PC/Mac for its use cases. And a Mobile phone for its. You can get away with either being your "only" device. But, they are designed for their specified use cases. My point being they are not the same thing, but different platforms and have different rules governing them.

And I would mention that the controls Developers may be concerned about. Are the same controls that existed when Apple came out with the AppStore. Nothing much changed other than the lowering of costs/fees developers would pay (depending on specified criteria). Generally though the price has gone down over the years. If it was a good deal and worth developing for in the past. Why would it be any different today?

 

[PlayUltimate]

However your argument falls apart
Because in the mobile space you have only two choices iOS & android
So that essentially means if you don’t dance to Apple’s tune then you only have android for your app.
Hence why certain people might not like it but that is why you are now seeing this type of regulation that Apple is facing

There are many apps that are developed in iOS that do not do any transactions in the iOS store. The Kindle app works just fine in iOS but you cannot purchase a book through the App Store. Netflix works just fine but you cannot subscribe via the App Store. Many other apps have similar arrangements. Epic et al wants to be able to use the ease and simplicity of the iOS Store without having to pay to use it. In no other retail establishment is a customer explicitly told, in the store, that they can purchase the same item somewhere else cheaper.

 

[PlayUltimate]

I know it’s difficult
Microsoft launched their own phones and own mobile operating system
Yet the problem they had was developers wouldn’t make apps for it because of the low market share

When the iPhone launched it had 0% marketshare, Blackberry ruled the mobile phone space, and nobody gave Apple any chance at success. The problem is that Apple supported developers by creating an "easy" to use IDE. Then they created a ubiquitous and inexpensive store front to allow nearly anyone to create a software development business overnight.
What Apple offered was a way for developers to create something and then put it into a store for almost no upfront cost. Apple only got paid after you made a sale. There was no charge for shelf space. There was no upfront inventory that needed to be created. What Apple created was the greatest business opportunity for software development that had been seen to date. And through that creation, many developers were able to make money in a market that did not previously exist.
Now that many years have passed, and due in part to the simple business model that Apple implemented, people are complaining that developers only make 70% of the sale price. What percent should they get for playing in Apple's store?
In almost no other industry is there an expectation that the manufacturer of a product gets anywhere close to 70% of the retail price. Due to wholesalers, retailers, and other distribution costs, the manufacturer of a product will often make <50% of the actual retail price. Why should iOS developers expect to make more than 70% of the retail price? IMO, most of the people looking at the App Store have little understanding of business and they just think Apple makes too much $$. And it has little to do with how business and markets actually work.
My fear is that the legal challenges to the App Store will force Apple to change the way that iOS development is monetized and that the low-cost opportunity that Apple created will go away.

 

[PlayUltimate]

Because if there was a 3rd mobile OS
With substantial user base
Then iOS wouldn’t be getting regulated
Thats why it’s not an attack on Apple

not sure that this is true. . .

 

[wbeasley]

But you said there a legal ramifications for breaking App Store rules
I’m just asking what are they?

And yes harmony OS exists but the last time I checked it’s mainly in china not available in certain regions
Until huawei is allowed to properly operate in the west then you will get the current two party system

sorry but you know the question i was asking: what apps must you have that you need to break the AppStore so you can load? And remove iOS from the device.

i've asked you this direct question how many times?

I can't be clearer...

 

[wbeasley]

No one said anyone is above the law. Just that the laws changed to make what Apple "had" been doing for years, illegal. If you build a business with expectations that "X" rules/laws/policies/trade/environmental/labor/supply chain, or standards of any kind will be in place for 5-10-25 years. THEN, without you doing anything wrong, the laws change to make your business model completely or significantly enough untenable. You may have a change of opinion as well. If you had a store that sold a different fruit than anyone else's. And one day, all other fruit stores slowly went belly up. You didn't do anything to cause them to fail. Just sold your fruit to those who liked it. And the government comes along and says, "hey there, we noticed the lack of fruit sellers around here. Wondering if you would allow other "fruits" to be sold within your walls so we can all have more options... Oh and we need you to do this quickly, and don't be greedy or put up any restrictions to make it difficult for these other fruits to be sold here... These other fruits mean you now harm, and will not at all affect other fruits you sell. THANKS!!! BYE!!!, or we will fine the ever living bejesus out of you...

I said it before when EPIC took away Fortnite. They took away my choice. They didn't care about me at all in attempting to lure me away to "their" store to purchase "their" stuff. "Oh, it's cheaper! Come here instead!". Thanks, but I already went through the trouble of trusting Apple to do this. And I want to continue to do so. You will get paid just fine, even if you're only allowing me "less" vBucks for this purchase. Let me make up my own mind. While you go to the courts and plead your case. Take your time, do it right. And maybe you will be able to provide a link through your app to allow me to purchase my less expensive means. All the while allowing me to continue to pay via the IAP without fail. You could have had me on battle pass and extra vBuck purchases this whole time (years), and many many others as well. But no. YOU,... EPIC decided for me. That wasn't going to be the case.

You pay taxes on gas. And if you're in the UK/EU, you pay a LOT of taxes for fuel. If you pay at a name brand retail station (Shell, Exxon/Mobile/BP/Chevron/etc. You will pay MORE for their "additives". Special blend of chemicals to enhance your driving experience.... If you go to a mom and pop station, you pay a little less. As they get gas from the same places everyone else does. Just some water added to lessen the price some.. 🤣

what davide_eu calls freedom, i dont.

i like the freedom of a device that is controlled and walled and largely avoids the malware crap.

if i want freedom to install anything, i buy an Android device.

devices arent expensive or prohibitive and many own two or more capable devices.

 

[wbeasley]

You can’t use harmony os in most countries that is the point.

Yes epic was kicked off the App Store but what are the legal ramifications that they are facing?

Here’s how to switch from EMUI to HarmonyOS

Global Huawei smartphone uses EMUI software because the company is not yet ready to upgrade all of the devices to the HarmonyOS operating system outside of China. However, there is a trick that may allow you to switch from EMUI to HarmonyOS. Not

consumer.huawei.com

you can try Harmony to see if it works outside China...

AND they say they arent ready to roll it out everywhere BUT they are looking at it.

I don't see why you would want to use a version that the Chinese government approve (and most likely monitor closely) but the obstacles to loading it seem to be getting less.

And if HuaWei can do it, there is nothing stopping anyone else forking Android...

 

[wbeasley]

It's 0% in PC/Mac software sales. As Mobile starts replacing desktop sales, I think that's where developers see it as a Apple having too much control.

not if you use the Mac AppStore. Apple gets a cut there too. Currently

 

[PlayUltimate]

It's 0% in PC/Mac software sales. As Mobile starts replacing desktop sales, I think that's where developers see it as a Apple having too much control.

This may be true. . . but discovery of those apps required (and still require) tedious exploration. The app store made discovery much easier. And for that Apple deserves some $$. A marketplace does not just happen; it takes work and support. (Take a look at all of the shopping malls that are having issues. Building it is not enough).

 

[Stuwil]

They (China) subsidize their industries. And they have a population that is about or above 1 billion people. So it's fairly easy to have a sizable market share from a home grown company when you have that many people to sell it to. As they can make that phone cheaper than any android or iPhone could be. People there still buy others phones though.

You can't buy Huawei in the west because they have spyware built into the hardware of their devices. And there OS is reverse engineered or just a straight up copy of Android. Minus some verbiage mentioning Android.

Why Was Huawei Banned? A Look into the Telecoms Giant | EM360Tech

While it may now be one of the world’s biggest smartphone sellers, no tech company has stirred up quite as much controversy as Huawei. The Chinese conglomerate, a global leader in cutting-edge 5G technology and smartphones, continues to rattle Western governments and lawmakers as its influence...

em360tech.com

I personally can't prove a negative on this one. There may be some merit to them spying with their communication devices. Or they could have used it as a reason to make a ban. But they did pretty much copy Android, and only recently (maybe) changed it enough to not be considered a copy.

You have 2 options in the rest of the world, because that is what people picked. Blame Microsoft and Blackberry for failing to be numbers 3 and 4. And HP/Palm for being a 5th option. Facebook and Amazon both took a stab at it, and failed too. It's not because Apple is doing anything wrong.

I never said Apple did anything wrong what I did say was this if what you claim is correct that china subsidizes its industry’s then that just goes to show that it’s the only way a 3rd mobile company can emerge.

It is claimed that there is spyware in huawei’s hardware

Again
The company reduced the price of its top-of-the-line Pura 70 Ultra device, launched in April, to 8,999 yuan (US$1,233) for the 1 terabyte version - an 18 per cent discount from the original price of 10,999 yuan, Huawei's official online store Vmall showed

The flagship iPhone 16 Pro with a starting price of 7,999 yuan and the iPhone 16 Pro Max with a starting price of 9,999 yuan will see the highest discount of 500 yuan.

Again going back to pre 2007 unfortunately there is a difference now and it’s the same problem Microsoft had in 2010 when they launched the lumia models because of low market share developers wouldn’t make apps for it because google gives android away for free so that makes it harder for any company to cut through.

Then because of this you have only two options in the west iOS and android
That means that both companies don’t need to innovate as much when it comes to the OS

Then it also means that Apple doesn’t need to innovate as much because people only have two choices so they can just make slight improvements and people will be it regardless if they don’t want android

And because it’s a two party system then that means that Apple are getting scrutinized more with regulation where be it the EU or the US and even Brazil
If a 3rd company insert a name with a billion users existed worldwide then Apple wouldn’t be getting this regulation because there would be 3 big companies so then there polices wouldn’t be coming under scrutiny
That’s why

 

[Sophisticatednut]

This may be true. . . but discovery of those apps required (and still require) tedious exploration. The app store made discovery much easier. And for that Apple deserves some $$. A marketplace does not just happen; it takes work and support. (Take a look at all of the shopping malls that are having issues. Building it is not enough).

If only AppStore had decent function to discover useful apps. Apple deserves 0$ for that. It’s so awful i would rather pay someone else to provide a proper serch and discovery function.

They started well and went to crap.

 

[I7guy]

I never said Apple did anything wrong what I did say was this if what you claim is correct that china subsidizes its industry’s then that just goes to show that it’s the only way a 3rd mobile company can emerge.

The US governments funds many research efforts. This is not new. What it shows is that the US government is responsible for things we take for granted.

It is claimed that there is spyware in huawei’s hardware

I heard that claim as to the veracity of it, I can’t speak.

Again
The company reduced the price of its top-of-the-line Pura 70 Ultra device, launched in April, to 8,999 yuan (US$1,233) for the 1 terabyte version - an 18 per cent discount from the original price of 10,999 yuan, Huawei's official online store Vmall showed

The flagship iPhone 16 Pro with a starting price of 7,999 yuan and the iPhone 16 Pro Max with a starting price of 9,999 yuan will see the highest discount of 500 yuan.

Again going back to pre 2007 unfortunately there is a difference now and it’s the same problem Microsoft had in 2010 when they launched the lumia models because of low market share developers wouldn’t make apps for it because google gives android away for free so that makes it harder for any company to cut through.

Then because of this you have only two options in the west iOS

Not correct. There are hundreds of phone manufacturers, each with their own spin on a phone and operating system.

and android
That means that both companies don’t need to innovate as much when it comes to the OS

This claim is also false.

Then it also means that Apple doesn’t need to innovate as much because people only have two choices

This is also false.

so they can just make slight improvements and people will be it regardless if they don’t want android

It’s up to consumers to decide if what they are buying is worth the price. If Apple doesn’t innovate one whit and consumers keep buying their products, who are we to say the consumers are wrong?

And because it’s a two party system then that means that Apple are getting scrutinized more with regulation where be it the EU or the US and even Brazil

Nah, it’s nothing right now to scrutinize Apple.

If a 3rd company insert a name with a billion users existed worldwide then Apple wouldn’t be getting this regulation because there would be 3 big companies so then there polices wouldn’t be coming under scrutiny
That’s why

Nope. Apples popularity is their Achilles heel.

 

[sherwinzadeh]

not if you use the Mac AppStore. Apple gets a cut there too. Currently

But you have a choice to use it or not. Btw, as a developer I prefer to use the App Store. It just doesn't make sense for ever business model.

This may be true. . . but discovery of those apps required (and still require) tedious exploration. The app store made discovery much easier. And for that Apple deserves some $$. A marketplace does not just happen; it takes work and support. (Take a look at all of the shopping malls that are having issues. Building it is not enough).

That was the promise but the reality is that the App Store is saturated with crap and copy cats. As a small indie developer, I do wish Apple was more selective. It may help the App Store if there were alternative ways of getting apps actually -- all the crap would be off of it.