Epic Games v. Apple Trial Wraps Up, But We Likely Won't Know the Outcome for Months

[Jony Ive and Co.]

Years, not months. Whoever loses will appeal. It will take a long time for final resolution.

At that point (YEARS later), the final decision will no longer be relevant because Apple would have moved onto the next big thing (i.e. Apple Car) and there will no longer be iPhone and iOS. We'll be wearing Apple Glasses running Glasses OS and driving Apple Cars.

 

[LarxJo]

The day iOS allows side loading for everyone or third-party app-store, will be the day many great new apps will appear. For now, many apps don't exists because of Apple's stubbornness.

 

[HMFIC03]

I think she’ll probably force Apple to allow in-app notifications that the purchase can be made cheaper on a website or the like, but do nothing beyond that. Guess we will see.

But if that’s all she does, Apple has to be pretty happy with that.

THAT would be a huge blow to apple! I’m guessing a large fraction of individuals would pay less if given the opportunity pay developers direct rather than Apple. I don’t see how this is fair to Apple who provide the all the means

 

[HMFIC03]

The day iOS allows side loading for everyone or third-party app-store, will be the day many great new apps will appear. For now, many apps don't exists because of Apple's stubbornness.

BS - if so great they would already be on it. I say the day that happens will be the day there will be so many crap apps you won’t know what is good and what actually works… oh and if you have a problem with a app… good luck getting reimbursed. Quantity over quality may work for nettflix but not apple

 

[StevieD100]

so this is a lawsuit that could carry on for months to come.

If SCO vs IBM is anything to go by, you could change 'months' into 'years' or even 'decades'.
Perhaps it is time to buy stock in makers of popcorn?

 

[WiseAJ]

The day iOS allows side loading for everyone or third-party app-store, will be the day many great new apps will appear. For now, many apps don't exists because of Apple's stubbornness.

Great new apps full of malware and spyware. Can’t wait for iAndroid.

 

[Tafkaeken]

This was overall a really interesting trial where both sides presented quite strong cases. I was also really impressed by the judge (and I guess a good team of clerks) for really trying to figure out the important questions.

The thing is that even if Apple wins the battle under current legislation, the war is probably over for these kinds of things in the long run.

The Digital Markets Act in the EU will force Apple to open up iOS for side loading and similar legislation is coming in the UK. Biden has also showed an interest for push against the big tech by nominating Lina Kahn to the FTC.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

THAT would be a huge blow to apple! I’m guessing a large fraction of individuals would pay less if given the opportunity pay developers direct rather than Apple. I don’t see how this is fair to Apple who provide the all the means

With privacy being front and center in a lot of minds, I could see how people would continue to use Apple just because they don’t know what third party Epic or any other company will provide that information to.

 

[SurferPup]

The longer it protracts the more it affects Epic Fail than  as the App Store not receiving 30% of Epic's games is negligible compared to their gamers unable to play and purchase from the App Store. Meanwhile complying competitors to Epic revel in their stupidity.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Fingers crossed we see a big loss for Apple soon. 🤞

enjoy more expensive iphones and services, passing the cost onto consumers. good job.

 

[farewelwilliams]

let's see...
spotify = 12.99
apple music = 9.99

most customers are going to go with the cheaper option, makes it kind of hard to compete.

why do all customers see $12.99? it's not like all customers discovered Spotify for the first time in the App Store. They discover it from outside ads (twitter ads, adwords ads, TV commercials). it's up to spotify to put $9.99 in big letters and direct users to goto the website to sign up users before the user downloads the app. if the users signs up in app and sees $12.99, they'll second guess themselves and google up Spotify via web.

 

[macfacts]

How can a judge force a business to advertise that the goods being sold on their platform can be purchased cheaper elsewhere?

I can see an all-or-nothing scenario — only being able to purchase something on either the App Store or a third party website, and providing a link to that site.

How is this forcing apple to advertise in their store? The ads are in the apps, not the store. Saying apple is "bringing" customers to the devs is like arguing ford is bringing customers to best buy when a customer drives to best buy.

 

[Wildkraut]

Until those people try to cancel their subscriptions and find that they have to spend 6 hours on the phone and sacrifice a goat to get it done, sure.

Sounds very difficult

Canceling Your World of Warcraft Subscription - Blizzard Support

 

[BvizioN]

She today asked Epic’s attorney the key question - customers buy into the Apple ecosystem, knowing what that means. Doesn’t forcing them to behave like Android actually *eliminate* customer choice?

Epic’s attorney didn’t have much of an answer to that.

They did have an answer, they just choose not to give it because it would have worked against them. The answer is yes. If I wanted iOS to behave like Android, I would just choose from thousands of Android devices. I buy Apple products solely for the ecosystem and how it works.

 

[laptech]

This argument of 'there is always Andriod' does not wash because back in the day car manufacturers tried that argument and they was hit hard for it. Car manufactureres used to have a monopoly on car parts and repairs, if you wanted a particular car, it had to be repaired by an authourised dealer and spare parts had to come from the car manufacturer. If you wanted your car repaired by the independant car dealer down the road because they were cheaper, you couldn't. Back then the argument was, if you do not like the terms and conditions, go buy a car from a different car manufacturer. Eventually this car monopoly got shot down by the courts, car owners could have their car repaired by who they wanted and could purchase spare parts from who they wanted.

The same principle is now being pressured against Apple.

 

[bobmans]

The technologically inept judge does Apple no favours.

I’m sure both sides have appeals drafted and ready to file.

I followed the trial briefly and had a different impression on the judge. I had the feeling that she knew damn well what she was talking about, asked the right questions and grilled both sides on their "wrongdoings".

 

[BvizioN]

Fingers crossed we see a big loss for Apple soon. 🤞

Yep

 

[genovelle]

Fingers crossed we see a big loss for Apple soon. 🤞

You must be an Android user. A loss for Apple is a huge loss for their customers and non top tier developers on multiple levels. Companies like Epic who leveraged Apple’s platform to make billions will better maintain their dominant market positions by keeping Apple from competing and lowering the cost of entry to market like they have with trackers.

It’s ironic that several of the companies coming for Apple would not exist on the level they are if Apple dis not provide access to their tools as platforms.

If they win iOS turns into the swamp of Android that we did not pay our money to join. I think we should sue Epic and others for attempting to destroy the function of our collective purchases.

 

[LarxJo]

BS - if so great they would already be on it. I say the day that happens will be the day there will be so many crap apps you won’t know what is good and what actually works… oh and if you have a problem with a app… good luck getting reimbursed. Quantity over quality may work for nettflix but not apple

That's already the case. Between scams, fake app, apps which are incredibly slow, copy of existing apps... So many crap apps. Some are even made by Apple....

Not to forget that the AppStore has not even a very basic search engine. It is something, but that's not a search engine. Otherwise, by typing MyAppNa, I would actually find an app called "MyAppName".

Some apps cannot exists just because of the stubbornness of Apple. How can you tell me the opposite? Multiple times over the past year, Apple had to change the rules and what happened? Many great apps emerged...

Apple is anyway not filtering the apps based on the quality... absolutely not. There are millions of proofs on the AppStore.

 

[Arceus1234]

epic just wants iOS ot be the worst operating system

 

[cardfan]

Great new apps full of malware and spyware. Can’t wait for iAndroid.

And you don’t have to download them. Lol. So excited over nothing.

 

[laptech]

Apple could so easily set up multiple ios hosting servers with trusted 3rd party hosters but in my opinion they won't because it would mean exposing their app store business practices which would expose running costs to 3rd parties and that is something they do not want to do. I mean, look, nearly everything that Apple makes, it gets disassembled by a 3rd party and then each part is broken down into it's individual cost with the results exposed to the media for the purpose of shaming Apple.

Even with this court case the evidence is very clear to see that Apple were not preapred to expose how much it costs to run the app store and what profits they amass from the app store. If they were told to setup 3rd party hosting sites, those costs that Apple do not want people to know about would become apparent. If such a scenerio went ahead, just how long do you think it would be before one of the 3rd party hosters would expose it's running costs to the media? Then the inquisition would start as to why it costs this 3rd party hoster x amount for doing the same thing that Apple is doing but yet Apple get billions for doing the same thing.

Apple is not about to let such a scenerio happen.

 

[amartinez1660]

iOS/iPadOS Fortnite players switched to PC, console, Android, etc. to continue to play so Fortnite didn't miss anything while Apple lost customers and PR. Just go to Reddit and see for yourself.

Had a brief visit over there and even with the court trial freshly finished, by when I peeked at the recent posts feels like the trial isn’t happening. The gamers are just posting lots of humorous stuff and going about life, unshaken.
If I filter search FortNite AND Apple it’s just more humorous stuff:
- jokes about “it’s just a banana ma’am” Peely character (didn’t check but funny things seem to have happened during the trial regarding the game characters, there might be worthy MR material there!).
- “Final day of trial, what do you think will happen?” One user asks, and the replies are just more jokes: “Apple and Epic have wrestling match” says one, “in fortnite outfits” another user adds to the thread.

Very brief and shallow my search but you are right, it seems to be at first glance being taken WAY more seriously over here at MR (at least I did) than with the players themselves. I can totally join that sentiment, this has all become a joke between two companies poking their eyes with tightly rolled 1million dollar bills.

 

[AndiG]

I guess Apple will loose at some point. Directing users to another Payment option in the Web, or like in Epics case, just using Epics Account for InApp payment will be allowed.

Putting a link to a webpage within the App or telling the user about another option to pay is comparable to free speech. Apple will loose its "You are not allowed to tell anyone about anything ..." rule.

 

[xander49x]

Yeah, pretending is not going to convince anybody. The judge already told Timmy she does not believe that he made the 15% decision because of COVID.

Where's the proof? ( she does not have any) The judge should use facts instead of her opinion.