Epic Games vs. Apple Judgment Allows App Store Developers to Link to Alternative Payment Methods

[GizmoDVD]

Clearly none of you are game or app developers. If you worked really hard on your app or game just to have Apple/Steam/Google take 30% of all profits on your app/game. I'd be pissed too. Epic pleaded with them to take a more reasonable cut, and they all said no. But, then of course there are sweetheart deals with Netflix and Spotify to allow people to purchase their subscription outside of Apple ecosystem. Just shady and a big ol middle finger to your average dev company.

I love Apple as much as the next person, but when they stop robbing the developers that make their platform so good, it does nothing but help everyone.

People here today think they can just setup their products inside a Wal-Mart and not expect to pay a fee of any kind while Wal-mart has massive overheard and billions of customers.

Developers are not different from anyone else. They don't get 100% profit while everyone else let's them live rent-free with a massive base of potential customers.

 

[BuddyTronic]

1. Open app
2. Redirect user outside app for payment
3. Provide Apple Pay at much lower fee than app store few
4. ??
5. Redirect user back to app

4. Obfuscate and hide the fact that you just made the customer check a box putting their Visa card in a state of a 1 year subscription promise.

Ever tried to get a refund from a gym? Same scam. It’s profitable too. The Apple way made it better for end users - cancel fairly easily - but if that’s gone it going to be “buyer beware” attitudes coming back

Just recently I subscribed monthly for “QuarkXpress”. I did forget to cancel. But at least I caught it after a while and quickly cancelled through the App Store easily. I won’t be so cavalier about subscribing to stuff outside Apple.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple just needs to allow other payment options alongside theirs and then compete in that space. If they have the best option that’s what consumers will choose.

 

[The Cappy]

Huge L for Apple. If this stands after appeal, you can take tens of billions of future revenue off the table.

It's Epic paying 30% of $12 million to Apple. Almost everything was ruled in favor of Apple, except the anti-steering.

 

[McKodiak]

Huge L for Apple. If this stands after appeal, you can take tens of billions of future revenue off the table.

I assume Apple can enforce a rule that if something is able to be purchased in the app that their own payment system must be an option as well. Let the user decide with what ease or pain they would like to make a purchase. I also think having different prices based on payment method should not be allowed.

 

[Mercury7]

Perhaps just Karma from spygate

 

[gsurf123]

Epic's future sales will feel this. Of course it is Apple's App Store and they are under no obligation to carry any products for if they were peddlers of porn and gambling could barge their way in. Maybe that is next...being forced to carry products you do not want in your store. Taking it a step farther...being forced as a landlord of a shopping center to allow undesirable businesses to be guaranteed a retail space.

This is bad all the way around.

In the end it makes no difference to me as I only buy through the App Store. I have no need or desire to pass my CC information to another party.

 

[mikethemartian]

I think this decision is wrong and not workable in other industries but still…reasonable. Apple not even allowing developers to inform or even link to their own payment methods was always a little suspect and if anything needs reform that might be it. I just don’t know how it will work if more broadly applied. Do every App Store need a link to the develops payment? Does Valve and Sony need to do that?

Once legal precedent is established it will apply to every business that conducts operations under similar conditions. Stare decisis. But that will probably only happen once all appeals are exhausted.

 

[CordovaLark]

Apple will immediately appeal this, and they should.

It should not be that if you create something, another party profits off of it, and then suddenly wants to change the rules, that they’re able to.

Apple is down 3% as of now. You can bet they are already planning to do exactly that. The market is closes in 3ish hours.

 

[zorinlynx]

This will force Apple to compete on the same level as other payment providers. I think it's a good thing.

 

[DesignTime]

Apple will win an appeal. It will just cost them more money in payoffs

 

[iFan]

Yes it is a win for Epic. They sued for more knowing full well they would not win all. Ultimately the most important for them right now is in game revenue which they don't have to share with Apple on iOS anymore. Several countries will follow as the dominos start to fall.

There is no reason why Apple has to allow Epic back on the App Store in the long-term, so I wouldn't be so quick to judge this as any sort of win for Epic, specifically. For other large developers with trustworthy payment options? Sure.

They breached their contract (as confirmed by the judge with damages owed) and Apple is not being forced to re-allow them in this ruling. Of course, Apple says they are happy to allow Epic back onto the App Store as long as they comply with all rules, but it wouldn't surprise me if they changed their tune or continued to find things that Epic was not in compliance with.

 

[The_Gream]

I like this judge. At least she shows that she has common sense. To me this isn’t a win/lose case. As a lot of others have said, good middle ground. And yea, Apple failed (IMO) to get a head of this by lowering their cut and maintaining features for developers or subdividing the cut by features for developers (say a 10% vs 30%, but they don’t handle the taxes and other things for the developer)

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

Apple will win an appeal. It will just cost them more money in payoffs

They got lawyers doing the work

 

[subi257]

guess you just answered my question. thanks.

To me, i don't see this materially affecting apples profits or earnings.

Except, my question is, if users can pay directly to the dev, where/how does Apple make the cost of hosting the app and use of their dev kit software? their infrastructure? Just a thought. I would expect that if the dev can sell directly, Apple should get a percentage, small albeit something...5% 10% I don't know. otherwise is it not like...I open a store, you come in set up a table and start selling your wares, give me nothing and leave at the end of each day?

 

[tucupeis]

if i were apple, i would charge yearly developer fee based on developer revenue like many other business that offer software licensing based on usage/company size/employees or any other figure that would be fair for every body. And offer a free license for apps that stay within apple payment system

 

[bluecoast]

Apple deserved this. They didn’t need to be so greedy.

I hope they don’t appeal - if they do, they might completely lose any goodwill that they once had with their devs - and instead focus on making this a good experience for consumers.

An extremely bad call by Tim Cook who is really starting to look out of touch of late. I guess that’s what unparalleled success and riches can do to people.

 

[teak421]

This is the best possible outcome..! First, this allows Apple to continue to keep their store secure and limited, BUT will allow companies like Epic to provide for their own payment services which only allows for more payment options for consumers. Fortnight allowed for two payment types: 10 bucks for Apple and now 8 Bucks for their payment method... The consumer chooses!

Great job Judge!

 

[Jimmdean]

Pretty big win for Apple here actually compared to how it could have gone. The judge basically said all their other behavior was fine. That folks is a precedent.

 

[Realityck]

Seems like the obvious middle ground. No alternate app stores (and the security issues that come with them), but instead a way to link out for payments that will likely only benefit the big fish (Amazon, Netflix, Disney, etc). For most users and small developers I don't know if this will change a lot.

I don’t think this is much of a problem, it allows some flexibility for Epic or other developers that already use a web site to market micro transactions, but the apple’s store integrity remains solid without having third parties dictate they should have their own side load commerce.

The fact that Apple already has made exceptions for big fish makes this all a tactical mistake for Epic in the long run. Now they need to entice users that were abandoned back.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21060631/apple-epic-judgement.pdf

 

[zorinlynx]

Except, my question is, if users can pay directly to the dev, where/how does Apple make the cost of hosting the app and use of their dev kit software? their infrastructure? Just a thought. I would expect that if the dev can sell directly, Apple should get a percentage, small albeit something...5% 10% I don't know. otherwise is it not like...I open a store, you come in set up a table and start selling your wares, give me nothing and leave at the end of each day?

Apple charges developers a fee to have their app in the store.

Also, it is more convenient for developers and users to bill through Apple than to use third party payments. If this decision stands, Apple will likely lower their commission on App Store payments to be more competitive with third party payment providers, so they will still make money, just not quite as much, and it will be more fair to developers.

 

[LivingMyBeachLife]

I will stick with Apple for my in-app purchases. Some developers have been know to have shaddy practices with their apps. In the event of a data breach, I would feel more protected having my transactions processed by Apple than some developer who may or may not follow proper notification and disclosure.

 

[DaPizzaMan]

Apple should put a game in the epic game store, and then demand that Apple pay be an option for payment on that game.

I mean, they could. It doesn't even have to be a game.

 

[Homme]

Yes it is a win for Epic. They sued for more knowing full well they would not win all. Ultimately the most important for them right now is in game revenue which they don't have to share with Apple on iOS anymore. Several countries will follow as the dominos start to fall.

no this is a major loss for Epic. Yes epics primarily reason for this war was the in app payment episode and that is only that count they won. Yes a major victory but there were plenty of others which apple won

but you fail to realize they wanted much more than that. they planned much more than that. They were eager to win the other counts, again yes this is a very important victory but how can Epic gain from this if they are not in the App Store ( and will most likely not)

 

[bookofxero]

I'm on the fence on this one.

One the one hand, I think Apple shouldn't be forced to let developers include links to outside payment/account setup options. Seems like Netflix has been just fine bypassing the App Store entirely. Developers have options, even if they might require customers to go through some hoops to use them.

On the other hand, I think it's probably a good/smart business decision for Apple to allow linking. If Apps/developers are already able to offer Apps for free (again, like Netflix) where users can sign up and pay completely outside the Apple ecosystem, I don't think a link built into the app changes a whole lot.

IMO.

It is like going to a store and one of the product manufacturers sets up a desk and let you pay them directly with your credit card. They get all the benefits of the store without having to pay toward any of the stores services or utilities that they are using.
AFAIK (NAL) Apple could and should switch to a per-user cost model for devs that utilize the App Store infrastructure w/ another payment method as a sort of rent. TANSTAAFL.