Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
But thos is the same as to be in app store, all the process goes trough apple. Only difference is those apps dont have icons in the app store, only direct link. Lets say, the raw link without eyecandies (screenshots etc)

My main point was that they are allowing methodologies to install whatever certain organizations want. Enterprise certificates are another angle where they install an app that does anything they want to do


The only thing Apple is opposed to is anything commerce related running this way.

Why?

Because they want a totally unjustified huge cut of it

And they are already making exceptions to that for certain mega corps

Psst…it’s the gaming revenue.
 
I am sure the is politicians are not pushing for this because they want to be able to install spywere profile, and store on your phone? When ever you hear this type talk about tech there is usually the motivation of a much smarter person behind it. If this people really cared about tech they would tackle right to repair, digital goods ownership, and of course side loading ( without backing a lying cheating bastard …of a company) if epic win it’s gonna set a precedent for entrapment. It’s legal if you think it’s the right thing to do even if you are not (police)
Entrapment? Do you even know what that word means?
 
Sideloading in general, or purely sideloading on iOS? Because it's not some crazy, dangerous thing, it's just a fancy word for installing. Mac's handle it fine. Hell, I can sign up to a beta and sideload apps on my iPhone right now (I currently have two installed). Don't get me wrong, you're allowed to be against it, I just don't get the reasoning behind the decision.
Side-loading in general for a device I consider should have very high security standards - Phone. I would like my phone to still work if I need to dial 911 in an emergency or call someone if I get stuck on the side of the road if/when my car dies.

Side-loading on Windows or Mac is fine because if I get infected, I just re-install the operating system. And I do use anti-virus software on those platforms due to their "open" nature.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cocoua
Side-loading in general for a device I consider should have very high security standards

Nothing about security will be impacted at all

Nobody is proposing root level non-sandboxed sideloading

Even on macOS the system files are now protected

I’m now of the opinion that a huge portion of opposition here is simply because of not understanding what is possible to do and still protect while allowing more consumer and developer choice.

There is a ton of FUD going around this topic.

Apple is not helping of course because they don’t want the situation clear.
The situation is: they want to keep sticking a spoon in revenue they have no business touching
 
Nothing about security will be impacted at all

Nobody is proposing root level non-sandboxed sideloading
Yes it would be impacted. The very definition of an open system is inherently less secure than a closed system. There should be no debate here. Allowing an iOS user to randomly download something online is by definition less secure.

There are a lot of Android malware out there (NOTE: definition of malware is NOT limited to viruses). My grandma got hit with malware on her Android and now she has an iPhone. She got it because she was getting very shady Solitare and Sudoku apps.

Even on macOS the system files are now protected
System files are not the issue. MY files are. I have been hit with ransomware on Windows before. System files were fine, but my stuff was encrypted. But I have backups so it was not an issue. I just re-installed Windows 10 and was on my way again.
 
Funny thing is if even just ONCE...if I were to hear someone...ANYONE outside of MacRumors complain about this...I'd be more inclined to believe it's actually an issue. This is being made into a far bigger issue than it actually seems to be.
Funny thing is, people outside of here ARE complaining about it, you just choose to be ignorant of it ?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: iOS Geek
Allowing an iOS user to randomly download something online is by definition less secure.

You can already do this.
Things are sandboxed so that even if you do, nothing bad usually happens.
(Always Potential for something new that even impacts current iOS)

That would not change with sideloading.

I can’t emphasize enough that you don’t seem to understand how iOS security works
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001 and dba415
You can already do this. Things are sandboxed so that even if you do, nothing bad happens.

That would not change with sideloading.

I can’t emphasize enough that you don’t seem to understand how iOS security works
You absolutely cannot. You need to go through the App Store. Otherwise, why do we have these lawsuits? I cannot download Affinity Photo from their website and run it on my phone.

And please just stop with that attitude. You are throwing stuff around and saying "you just don't understand". Why is Epic suing? Why are 35 states participating if you ALREADY CAN DO THIS? You CANNOT download something in Safari on iOS and run the app.
 
System files are not the issue. MY files are. I have been hit with ransomware on Windows before. System files were fine, but my stuff was encrypted. But I have backups so it was not an issue. I just re-installed Windows 10 and was on my way again.

Again… Sandboxing would not change.

You simply do not understand how the operating system works.
I am not trying to be rude but you are factually incorrect on the risks here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001
Side-loading in general for a device I consider should have very high security standards - Phone. I would like my phone to still work if I need to dial 911 in an emergency or call someone if I get stuck on the side of the road if/when my car dies.

Side-loading on Windows or Mac is fine because if I get infected, I just re-install the operating system. And I do use anti-virus software on those platforms due to their "open" nature.
It's wild to me that you don't think a computer should have high security standards. If I had to guess, I'd say I have far more sensitive stuff on my laptop (and more of it) than I ever would on my phone or iPad. My laptop is the last thing I'd ever want compromised.

But in saying that, no sandboxed app from outside the store is going stop you from making calls any more than a sandboxed app from the store (and remember, these things already happen. There was a photo posted to insta that could crash iPhones because of some weird detail with the black values, and there have been many repeated bugs with an Indian language character crashing phones, even in Apple's own apps. And yet no one is calling to get rid of the App Store).

Ultimately, if Apple can't implement a decent sandboxing setup on the phone then there's a much bigger problem with iOS than where the apps come from. But I don't think that's the case, nor one that Apple couldn't fix. So, I say open it up.
 
The solution to duopoly power is to introduce more parties.
Good luck with that. How long should we wait for a mythical new smartphone OS to show up and put Apple and Google in their place? I hear India will be taking a crack at it lol. That is, if it's not yet another version of Android. It's been like a decade now since there was another serious competitor and Apple and Google have only become more entrenched.

Breaking up the App Store still leaves the duopoly power around.
Duopolies don't always need to be broken up, nor monopolies for that matter, as long as they're well regulated.

Other duopolies that exist:
Airbus and Boeing
nVidia and AMD
Intel and AMD
Coke and Pepsi

Nobody is saying those companies should be broken up simply because they're a duopoly. If duopolies don't use misuse their massive market power, there's not an issue.
And I can certainly see this going to a $300 Apple developer fee and $500 XCode license to make up for the 30%. And you (developer) having to deal with individual line items for CDN, support, transaction and other items.
Then so be it. Alternatively, if a dev wants to opt into a 360 degree deal with Apple, ie the status quo, then that should be their and Apple's right as well.
 
Last edited:
I give up.

Apple has duped a whole bunch of people into thinking we have to do everything Apple wants or we are all at great risk.

It’s impossible to beat the reality distortion field I guess
 
  • Wow
  • Like
Reactions: PC_tech and I7guy
Again… Sandboxing would not change.

You simply do not understand how the operating system works.
I am not trying to be rude but you are factually incorrect on the risks here.
I have had malware break through sandbox environments on Windows. Just because its "sandboxed" doesn't mean it is completely 100% immune to security holes. If this happens with the App Store, Apple can revoke the App. But if you get it from the Epic Store, or even the developer's website, that is a different story.
 
And yet because of Apple's position in the market, that shouldn't be a requirement forced on devs. They should have an alternate means of distribution just like they do on macOS.


Adult content apps and marijuana apps for starters. And there have been news stories here on MR detailing apps being rejected solely because Apple says there are too many apps of that type on the store already.
The part you may have missed is 13 years is the iOS App Store operating essentially the same way.
 
Apple is really the only consumer focused company providing effective privacy protection for their customers. Of course States and Governments want to break that wide open. And it’s nice to see where Epic is really getting all it’s money to sue Apple with. It’s hilarious to see that Epic has turned suing Apple into it’s business model.
 
I give up.

Apple has duped a whole bunch of people into thinking we have to do everything Apple wants or we are all at great risk.

It’s impossible to beat the reality distortion field I guess
I have hated a lot of Apple's decisions. Not sure why you are giving up when people just want to have conversations which is what threads are about. Just because I don't like side-loading means Apple duped me?!

I fundamentally believe that Windows and Android are FAR MORE secure than macOS and iOS. Why? Because Windows and Android have been "battle hardened". macOS doesn't have the marketshare to really entice malware writers. And I guarantee you, the minute iOS is forced to allow side-loading, Android will be much MUCH more secure because iOS has NOT been "battle hardened". Apple has the benefit of "security by obscurity" type of approach currently. Removing/unapproving a lot of apps that will now be allowed to be distributed elsewhere. I think iOS will be a malware riddled mess when this first happens.
 
You're forced to -- or you forego a huge portion of smartphone customers.

And...Smartphones have largely become life/work essential devices.

Businesses increasingly need to reach people everywhere (both platforms)
There is no debate smartphones are useful. We can debate if they are in the same category of air, food and water. Now what will happen will happen, but smartphone app stores shouldn’t be regulated ( except for some basic regulations that could apply to all businesses) by the government.
 
And the part you may have missed is that 13 years ago the smartphone market was far smaller, far less consequential to the larger economy, and had several other competitors in the market.
Nope, didn’t miss that and also didn’t miss that people voted with their $$$. Innovation won out. Not government regulations. Apple is where they are today because they give the people what they want.
 
Nope, didn’t miss that and also didn’t miss that people voted with their $$$. Innovation won out. Not government regulations.
If you realized that and didn't miss it, then your last post was pretty darn disingenuous, pretending circumstances are no different than they were almost a decade and a half ago. ?

Innovation did win out, but that doesn't preclude the latter, which appear to be inching closer by the day.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.