EU Accuses Apple's App Store Steering Rules of Violating DMA and Opens Investigation into Developer Fees

[SmugMaverick]

My next phone will be android. I've had enough of Apple's shady practices.

Yep, after 17 years I'm ready to switch full time because this is a joke now from Apple.

Disgusting stuff from them these last few years.

I'll take gemini on android over Siri (which you know won't ever work and you'll need openAI anyway) and the long wait for AI to actually happen on iPhone because Tim bet on his stupid headset over AI.

I'm tired of having a fisher price OS, you don't need a 15 Pro to do "clean up" in photos.

The lawyers will be winners out of this.

The EU is certainly overreaching, they need the fines to plug the big black hole left by the UK after Brexit.

Good luck Apple. But you won’t need it… poor drafting of a law is an EU problem not an Apple problem.

Courts deal with the letter of the law not the spirit of it. They deal with the facts not the emotion.

Extreme levels of cope in this post.

 

[jlc1978]

I love the EU. Truly one of the greatest achievements of the modern world!

It is an interesting experiment and it will be interesting to see how it changes with the changing political sentiment in the EU and political divides becoming more pronounced. One of its biggest challenges is how do you get agreements amongst all members when they may be significantly apart in how to approach problems.

Regulating gatekeepers may be the least of their worries.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

You need to look that word up.

"A monopoly refers to a market structure where a single entity has complete control over a particular commodity or service."

Apple has a monopoly on iDevice app distribution. There's no question of that.

And that is why the DMA exists, to break that now-unlawful monopoly, and other now-unlawful monopolies that other companies have created.

The US needs a DMA. Japan and India are already getting similar laws. (The reality is that US law should already make Apple's monopoly abuse illegal, but the courts have failed to interpret US law properly, and so now we need new laws to make it explicit that Apple has an unlawful monopoly and end Apple's consumer abuse here.)

 

[Sophisticatednut]

…It would be nice if the EU extended the philosophy to cars as well. Why do I have to jump thorough hoops to activate features on my car that did not come activated from the factory but could be by simply recoding the build order. I realistically they may want you to actually pay for those features or not make them avaiable in some markets, but if it's in the software I bought the car so I should be able to access the software.

Well isn’t it? Technically, it is often possible for consumers or third-party services to activate software-locked features in cars, such as heated seats, through various methods like recoding or installing third-party software.

And I can’t find anything that you can’t activate any of these services with zero consequence already.

Edit: legal or otherwise.

 

[SmugMaverick]

The EU is going too far with this.
People who don’t like Apple should stay with Android. Apple is like a private club, unless private clubs are illegal in the EU.

You realise owning an apple product isn't something to beat your chest over right?

I'll go out on a limb and guess you're American because no one outside of the states gives a rats butt about Apple products being "exclusive" or "elite" when anyone can buy them on instalments. 🤣

Imagine letting blue bubbles dictate your whole existence 😂

 

[Victor Mortimer]

Did they though?

I don’t get why so many people on here don’t want to see the benefits of competition.

If we looked at some bygone case studies we would see that whenever Apple has been forced to innovate to stay relevant we have all benefitted:

- Hackers crack iPhone OS 1. We all get the App Store.

- Android gets released. Apple improve iOS and lower prices of the iPhone.

- WebOS brings proper multitasking. Apple add it to iOS.

- Windows Phone 7 makes iOS and Android look archaic. We get flat design with iOS7 and Android 5

- Apple forced to adopt an industry standard. We can now use one charger for all our gadgets.

- Apple opens up iOS to alternate app markets. Emulators finally get released and Apple drop their stupid restrictions on game streaming apps.

- OpenAI teams with Microsoft. We get Apple Intelligence.

Now from the very same people that bemoan Apple for not innovating with hardware or software every year comes an opportunity for some healthy competition and they bat it away?!?

Everything is true but the Windoze Phone part. iOS was beautiful before 7, now it's a hideous-looking flat mess. Windoze Phone was ugly and unusable from the beginning. There's no excuse for flat.

Every time I fire up an old iPhone I feel so sad for what we've lost.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

The EU continues to bleed American companies. American companies need to take a stand and stop supporting the EU. Seems Apple has started with the reduction in features.

 

[MilaM]

The EU continues to bleed American companies. American companies need to take a stand and stop supporting the EU. Seems Apple has started with the reduction in features.

You mean by buying billions worth of their devices and consuming their services?

 

[tobyx]

The EU continues to bleed American companies. American companies need to take a stand and stop supporting the EU. Seems Apple has started with the reduction in features.

I get that there’s a mismatch between how many EU companies are affected by the DMA (none, because… that would require innovation), but this isn’t a trade war.

American companies have raked in trillions of $ from doing business in the EU.

 

[The_Gream]

The CTF was never going to hold. It massively puts off smaller devs going it alone.

Apple would be better off making a carrot than a stick.

You do realize, most small developers don’t hit the million dollar mark or the million download mark right?

 

[Zest28]

"Apple charges developers a fee for every purchase of digital goods or services a user makes within seven days after a link-out from the app".

I've disagreed with the EU Commission on much of this and I am anti-EU in general, but practices like this are ridiculous and appear like Apple wants to bait the Commission. I find it surprising that Apple wants to invite further investigation by making such rules. As commenters above have said, no one can be surprised that this attracts regulatory attention. If Apple is playing a cleverer game here, I'm obviously too stupid to see what that is.

Is it in the law which says it has to be free? If it is not written in the law that it has to be free, then I don't see the problem.

Apple has an army of lawyers so it is not unlikely that they didn't find this in the law.

 

[surferfb]

Looking forward to the EU mandating that Edeka put up signs saying the eggs are cheaper at Aldi!

 

[frenchcamp49er]

I get that there’s a mismatch between how many EU companies are affected by the DMA (none, because… that would require innovation), but this isn’t a trade war.

American companies have raked in trillions of $ from doing business in the EU.

It is a trade war. American companies have been the bank for the EU for far to long, if this was solely and the EU why fine for total final revenue, it about the EU bleeding Apple for all they can try to get. It’s about time Apple refused to release some new features to the EU.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

You mean by buying billions worth of their devices and consuming their services?

Really? You mean by the EU thinking American companies are in business to finance their agendas?

 

[tobyx]

Looking forward to the EU mandating that Edeka put up signs saying the eggs are cheaper at Aldi!

Your comparison is hilariously fitting.

And I mostly agree with it.

 

[Zest28]

Looking forward to the EU mandating that Edeka put up signs saying the eggs are cheaper at Aldi!

And Lidl should be able to setup a shop in the same building that Aldi has paid for free.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I get that there’s a mismatch between how many EU companies are affected by the DMA (none, because… that would require innovation), but this isn’t a trade war.

American companies have raked in trillions of $ from doing business in the EU.

Commission designates Booking as a gatekeeper and opens a market investigation into X *

The European Commission has today designated under the Digital Markets Act (DMA), Booking as a gatekeeper for its online intermediation service Booking.com and decided not to designate X Ads and TikTok Ads.

ec.europa.eu

Well booking DOT com is one.
And the mismatch is existing European companies are largely already in compliance as they have mostly been targeted by ether national government, article 102 of EU for antitrust violations or already know how the legal system works. Most of these companies are 100 years old already.

These new young technology companies just seem to be unaware of how other legal systems work and think it’s all lazies faire.

 

[tobyx]

And Lidl should be able to setup a shop in the same building that Aldi has paid for free.

Keep them coming.

Love it.

 

[tobyx]

Well booking DOT com is one.

Also an American company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booking_Holdings

(The argument of Booking.com being headquartered in the Netherlands doesn’t hold as we could then call Apple a European company too with some headquarters in Ireland.)

 

[jlc1978]

Well isn’t it? Technically, it is often possible for consumers or third-party services to activate software-locked features in cars, such as heated seats, through various methods like recoding or installing third-party software.

And I can’t find anything that you can’t activate any of these services with zero consequence already.

Edit: legal or otherwise.

Yes and no. You can, but it's not easy; just as you technically can side loaded on iOS but it requires jumping through a number of hoops. In the case of the car, that often involves downloading bootleg software because the manufacturer similarly hasn't made it easy and if you aren't careful you run the risk of bricking the car. There are third party tools but they can't do everything in many cases.

Repairs are another issue - something as simply as changing a battery in a BMW requires recoding the computer; which yo can do if you have access to the right tool. Yes, the car will work if I don't but at the risk of damaging the battery over time (at least per BMW). Then there is the whole "safety issue" since the battery has an explosive disconnect that activates in case of an accident (a good thing) so mere mortals should not attempt this at home.

In that regards it's very similar to the situation with Apple; yes it can be done by 3rd parties but it is not easy or simple and may require purchasing or renting expensive tools do do simple repairs that comply with manufacturer requirements.

 

[Ethosik]

I find it interesting that Apple can't figure this out and build a solution that works according to the EU regulations when Android, run by Google, the most consumer hostile company there is, manages to do this. That's something to reflect about.

A lot of people here talking about consumers have a choice and can choose Android but on the other end, Apple also has a choice. They are free to leave EU. If they can't follow the rules, they can leave. We don't care. We don't want a company that alienates its customers and once you're "in", force you to use their stuff and make it a PITA to leave. The only ones that will care is Google who get all of that income instead and they'll laugh all the way to the bank.

At this point, Apple's behavior is just pathetic. As if a company of that size can't follow these rules. They would gain more by allowing more freedom for developers. Developers are literally what's making or breaking a platform. If they anger the developers and the developers leave, Apple would be nothing and no one would buy their products except a few hard core fans.

It's **** like this that makes customers consider switching to Android, and I doubt that was the outcome Apple had in mind.

Doesn’t your last statement just prove Apple’s point? There are alternatives.

 

[nicolas_s]

Also an American company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booking_Holdings

(The argument of Booking.com being headquartered in the Netherlands doesn’t hold as we could then call Apple a European company too with some headquarters in Ireland.)

Looks like the EU loves American money!

 

[chmania]

Perhaps, but every purchaser is paying a little extra for that extra warranty period upfront; the manufacturers aren't giving it to the EU consumer for free.

You don't imagine the amount of competition between sellers/manufacturers selling in the EU that cut the prices down quite quickly. Anyway, it is a statutory law that isn't available in the US.

Even with the guarantee it doesn't mean you are automatically covered but may have to prove it was a defect, and go back to the seller's location in some cases to get it fixed.

We don't have to prove anything, if it's an internal defect -- we don't have to be knowledgeable of whatever the defect. It just has a defect.

Plus, it only covers items bought in the EU,

Quite naturally. I live there.

so if you buy something outside of the EU it's up to the manufacturer to decide if the offer a worldwide warranty or limits it to the selling geography.

We do buy things from companies outside the EU, and if that website is available in the EU, and we buy through that, the EU laws applies to that seller too.

Even Apple only offers a worldwide warranty on some items and not on others.

There's no need to buy Apple devices from other countries outside the EU, as Apple has their own shops in every EU country. And, there are all kinds of large distributions with physical shops all over the EU, which most times sell cheaper than Apple with the same statutory guarantee. If you go abroad and buy an Apple product from a duty free shop, (maybe) you pay less, and you know the risks. Anyway, Apple usually makes good products. My 15" MBP made in April 2019 is still doing well and running Sequoia DB.

 

[nicolas_s]

In the US, the price on Apple's U.S. online store website is before taxes, but in the EU, the price includes the taxes.

And, this is what the whole thing is about for the users in the EU, let the developer earn his/her money without paying the Apple tax. You bought the device, so how you use it, or what you install in it is your decision and your problem. The device must be useable to the buyer/consumer, not to the company who made it, or sold it -- the consumer is placed before the manufacturer in the EU. The EU is a union of 27 different sovereign countries.

No US State has a sale tax of 25%. Even 10% is considered high.

Most of the time it's like 5%. How do you justify the 20% more I have to pay for the same product as a European?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple really doesn't need to worry as long as they keep innovating

To "keep innovating"...they first need to actually start innovating again