EU Accuses Apple's App Store Steering Rules of Violating DMA and Opens Investigation into Developer Fees

[Athonline]

A smart phone is not either. A cell phone is. A dumb flip phone is all you NEED in the world. Need here equates to truly needing it like food and water.

Regardless on that point. So the EU doesn’t care about the “exploiting their customers” then.

Multiple countries require a smartphone app for e-governance authentication. Tanax 's example of BankID is just one —without it, you do not have Swish and, hence, cash in Sweden. Smartphones were also used for COVID vaccines certificates.
Another example—which the government faced backlash—was UK's requirement for Android phones the 'Settle In' status that 3 million EU citizens living in Britain needed. The reason for this requirement was that the NFC reader was not accessible on iOS devices.
In Spain, you need a smartphone (with a camera) for various authentication services and meetings with gov. officials.

Smartphones are a must and increasingly so. Even the most stubborn anti-smartphone people I know have now bought one.

 

[rhaezorblue]

Maybe time to completely pull out of the EU and let them use crappy androids

 

[ProbablyDylan]

In addition, the Commission believes that the fees charged by Apple for facilitating new customer acquisition via the App Store "go beyond what is strictly necessary for such remuneration." For example, Apple charges developers a fee for every purchase of digital goods or services a user makes within seven days after a link-out from the app, and the Commission sees this as excessive.

I want to see someone justify this part of Apple's behavior. Why should Tim ever get a cut of something that someone bought somewhere else?

 

[Tanax]

A smart phone is not either. A cell phone is. A dumb flip phone is all you NEED in the world. Need here equates to truly needing it like food and water.

Regardless on that point. So the EU doesn’t care about the “exploiting their customers” then.

BankID is an app, as such it does not run on a cell phone. You need a smart phone.

Which has apparently resulted in more cyber criminals stealing from bank accounts.

I never talked about if it's a good or bad thing to have BankID. But it is, nontheless, required.

 

[turbineseaplane]

A dumb flip phone is all you NEED in the world.

Not if you're interacting in modern life

 

[turbineseaplane]

Maybe time to completely pull out of the EU and let them use crappy androids

A CEO does not drop a market of this size and importance and keep their job

 

[Beautyspin]

They should, for any app they charge the CTF on 3rd party stores; and offset it by any revenue they get from the app on teh App Store. That way, it is a level playing ground and Apple is not disadvantaged by getting a commission plus CTF which would make the App Store more expensive.

What revenue does the Appstore get from free apps such as Faebook and Instagram? However, they also will have to pay CTF if they are listed in the 3rd-party stores. In fact, even 3rd party stores are considered apps and are subject CTF. Can you believe Apple's gumption?

Which has apparently resulted in more cyber criminals stealing from bank accounts.

Google for "scam apps on Asppstore", you will find hundreds. Will Apple reimburse you the money you lost from those scam apps? Tell me one scam app that has come out of a 3rd party store?

 

[Athonline]

BankID is an app, as such it does not run on a cell phone. You need a smart phone.



I never talked about if it's a good or bad thing to have BankID. But it is, nontheless, required.

I recently moved from Sweden and got scared last week that my BankID stopped working and I couldn't renew it. Thankfully, my mobile bank helped me renew it. Without it, a lot of things—including paying taxes—would have been so hard especially when living abroad. Plus, I would have been completely logged out of my Avanza investment account....

 

[Beautyspin]

Apps in the App Store are already being charged the 70/30 split, which covers the cost of Apple's ongoing iOS development (i.e. Core Technology). Why would you charge the CTF for developers on top of the fees already being charged?
Again, if someone is unhappy with these purely voluntary arrangements, they are welcomed to go develop on other platforms, or create their own OS to develop on.

How much does content apps such as Netflix, Facebook, Instagram pay under the 70/30 split? Nothing. But if they are listed on the alternate stores, then they have to pay the CTF. Even the 3rd-party appstores are considered apps and are subject to CTF.
Same advice to Apple. If they are not happy with the rules, they can sell in countries that do not have these rules. By the way, the list of countries where such rules will not be there are shrinking alarmingly. They might end up selling in Antartica or the moon in a couple of years.

 

[spazzcat]

"A monopoly refers to a market structure where a single entity has complete control over a particular commodity or service."

Apple has a monopoly on iDevice app distribution. There's no question of that.

And that is why the DMA exists, to break that now-unlawful monopoly, and other now-unlawful monopolies that other companies have created.

The US needs a DMA. Japan and India are already getting similar laws. (The reality is that US law should already make Apple's monopoly abuse illegal, but the courts have failed to interpret US law properly, and so now we need new laws to make it explicit that Apple has an unlawful monopoly and end Apple's consumer abuse here.)

You can't have a monopoly on your product. Apple sells a cellphone in the market of cellphones, but they do not have a monopoly in that market.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

I doubt Apple will pay a major fine. But they will be forced to adjust on CTF. American-style lawyering won’t work here.

 

[spazzcat]

Apple is not exploiting their customers. It’s a standard practice. All game consoles operate the same way. Maybe they shouldn’t signal out Apple and apply the same rules to everyone.

This point I tried to get across a few times, they said no private markets are allowed then it would be fair. But they are making laws to target certain US companies.

 

[surferfb]

You can't have a monopoly on your product. Apple sells a cellphone in the market of cellphones, but they do not have a monopoly in that market.

Exactly. EU defenders here are claiming the market is "McDonald's customers", not "hamburger customers" and therefore McDonalds has to sell the Whopper in its restaurants and give the money to Burger King without getting a cut for the rent, water, and electricity.

 

[spazzcat]

I want to see someone justify this part of Apple's behavior. Why should Tim ever get a cut of something that someone bought somewhere else?

Because if the iPhone didn't exist they would get zero. Just like when you sell items in real stores several people in the supple chain get a piece of your profits.

 

[!!!]

If you want to back up data, iCloud is the only option.

iTunes backups still exist. Then you can back up those files to whatever cloud storage provider you want.

 

[turbineseaplane]

iTunes backups still exist. Then you can back up those files to whatever cloud storage provider you want.

Not nearly as convenient as it requires plugging into your computer, which the vast majority never do anymore due to the demise of local Music libraries

OTA backups are far better as they're more consistent and seamless

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Exactly. EU defenders here are claiming the market is "McDonald's customers", not "hamburger customers" and therefore McDonalds has to sell the Whopper in its restaurants and give the money to Burger King without getting a cut for the rent, water, and electricity.

The difference is that McDonald's isn't selling someone else's goods, only their own. Moreover, they buy the materials to produce their own goods wholesale. This analogy of yours would make sense if the App Store only contained Apple's software but this is not the case at all.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Because if the iPhone didn't exist they would get zero. Just like when you sell items in real stores several people in the supple chain get a piece of your profits.

But they didn't buy my product from Tim's store, they bought it from mine. This would be like Foot Locker getting a cut of Adidas sales made from the Adidas store.

 

[I7guy]

Multiple countries require a smartphone app for e-governance authentication. Tanax 's example of BankID is just one —without it, you do not have Swish and, hence, cash in Sweden. Smartphones were also used for COVID vaccines certificates.
Another example—which the government faced backlash—was UK's requirement for Android phones the 'Settle In' status that 3 million EU citizens living in Britain needed. The reason for this requirement was that the NFC reader was not accessible on iOS devices.
In Spain, you need a smartphone (with a camera) for various authentication services and meetings with gov. officials.

Smartphones are a must and increasingly so. Even the most stubborn anti-smartphone people I know have now bought one.

I used to have apps on my flip phone. I had vz nav on my flip phone. Whether someone wants to develop that is another story, but the original posters point still stands.

 

[surferfb]

But they didn't buy my product from Tim's store, they bought it from mine. This would be like Foot Locker getting a cut of Adidas sales made from the Adidas store.

Using tools, services, and intellectual property provided by Apple to build their product. And Apple should be compensated for that. Whoever Adidas buys leather from gets paid for the leather.

The difference is that McDonald's isn't selling someone else's goods, only their own. Moreover, they buy the materials to produce their own goods wholesale. This analogy of yours would make sense if the App Store only contained Apple's software but this is not the case at all.

Ok - so forcing Target to sell War-Mart's private brands at Target, giving Wal-Mart all of the money from the sale, AND making Target put up a sign up saying "you know you can get this cheaper from Wal-Mart."

 

[MilaM]

Exactly. EU defenders here are claiming the market is "McDonald's customers", not "hamburger customers" and therefore McDonalds has to sell the Whopper in its restaurants and give the money to Burger King without getting a cut for the rent, water, and electricity.

Subtle difference, there are dozens of other restaurant one can go to to get a meal. There are only two restaurant chains for apps. Apple Burger or Google Burger.

 

[surferfb]

Subtle difference, there are dozens of other restaurant one can go to to get a meal. There are only two restaurant chains for apps. Apple Burger or Google Burger.

And Google Burger does everything that the EU is trying to force Apple Burger to do. And, in the EU Google Burger has over 70% of the market share. But you and others keep screaming there is NO COMPETITION and developers are "forced" to develop for iOS.

 

[Jamie0003]

Yea, yet many people here are defending Apple. Must be that typical US mentality "lAnD oF tHe FrEe".

Seems to be like 99% of users on here whenever this topic is brought up. Apple can do no wrong according to them

 

[Account25476]

If you want to back up data, iCloud is the only option.

False, you can make local backups of your data to your PC/Mac and store them anywhere you want.

Sure, it’s 2024, but to make a backup without using an Apple service, I need to: 1) physically connect my device to my computer with a USB cable; 2) remember to do this every day. Very convenient.

Are you serious defending them?

If you want to download an app, the App Store was the only option until recently.

False you can buy an Android

Yeah it's like saying:
"I’m thirsty but don’t want to spend money for a water bottle, so I can’t drink."
You: False, you can drink your own urine!1! And if you don't have any, you can always drink someone else's nearby! 🤡"

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Using tools, services, and intellectual property provided by Apple to build their product. And Apple should be compensated for that. Whoever Adidas buys leather from gets paid for the leather.

Right. And Apple charges for their tools in the form of the developer fee. If Apple wanted to do the right thing and make money, they would increase the price charged to developers upfront.

Ok - so forcing Target to sell War-Mart's private brands at Target, giving Wal-Mart all of the money from the sale, AND making Target put up a sign up saying "you know you can get this cheaper from Wal-Mart."

Except that no one wants to do this to the App Store. Developers want to be able open a Target, not be forced to sell at Walmart.