EU Has 'No Intention' to Repeal DMA Following Apple Challenge

[Ctrlos]

I’ve always been firmly in the camp that the DMA and the subsequent opening of devices is only a net positive.

But then I considered my work position.

My IT department would never give me admin rights to my PC because of the abuse I or any other employee could inflict. It’s all very well me moaning about having to get a technician to do something as trivial as update some USB drivers but I could have theoretically corrupted anything or install and app I think is ok and wreck the whole network.

On my work iPad Pro however I am free to login with my own personal Apple account and install whatever I jolly well like. I’m not daft enough to install emulators but general gaming is ok. They trust me with this freedom because of the closed nature of iOS.

Maybe closed platforms where all apps have been vetted are a better idea after all?

 

[surferfb]

How does letting me use Live Translate with a pair of Galaxy Buds the same as giving Samsung the feature? It's still an Apple feature; I still need to use an iPhone.

It’s a feature Apple used to help sell its headphones. Headphone manufacturers can undercut Apple on price of headphones because they don’t have to spend the money developing the feature, they can just piggyback off of Apple’s coattails.

I honestly don’t understand how anyone defends this. It’s mind boggling.

There is literally nothing preventing Bose from developing this feature and letting it work in their own app. They just have to do the work and pay for it. But that’s not how things work in the EU, apparently. It’s just taken from those who do the work and given away because it’s “not fair” to those who don’t want to do the work that someone else did.

 

[Ctrlos]

Yeah, this for sure has to do with consumers... For sure. Absolutely. Just like the UK age verification laws.

We age-gate movies and magazines. Try buying a rag with a pair of boobies on the front aged 12 and see how far you get! What makes the internet so special that it shouldn’t also have such controls?

The age verification checks themselves are poorly implemented. They should have based it on the ZKP passport exchange built into Google Wallet that Apple could swiftly adopt.

 

[Happy_John]

how does chrome, edge, or firefox lower privacy and security standard on windows, macos, or even linux?
even funier when you consider not a single desktop browser actually use any sanboxing for their app (they all want wide system access so they can access other browser data), which is required on iOS

This.

The misconception in this whole discussion is this :

China is a nation, but for this debate, it’s a government. They have citizens.

The EU is a union of states ( but NOT a federal union, but that’s a distinction to argue over another day. They have citizens.

Apple is a corporation, not a nation or a collection of nations. They don’t gave citizens, they have shareholders.

Not the same thing.

This just ISN’T a fight between two equals, not two opposed nations and not two opposed corporations.

Excuse the pun, but the flaw in this whole thread is that it’s trying to equate apples with oranges.

 

[timber]

Not sure what people don’t understand: China is not a democracy. You complain and you lose access to a market with billions of people. You complain to the EU, which is a democracy, and you risk nothing. And the EU is only 450 million people. Of course Apple pushes back where they can and doesn’t push back where they can’t.

Are you saying their position isn't based on principles?
Surely not.

 

[omihek]

(which, for example, caused the loss of permanent AirDrop for everybody), nobody seems to care.

Um, say again? Do you remember these forums when that happened? Everybody cared.

 

[Happy_John]

That's precisely my the impression I'm getting from this.

Luckily or unluckily, the Orange Man doesn't know (or care) today about what he said or threatened a week ago.
Or remember and consider the gifts he obtained from Timmy's bootlicking mission a while ago.

Either way, Apple better be reshoring some hardware production to the U.S. soon.

Or Apple reshores just enough production to tick that box ( it’s what they did with the Mac Pro 7,1 onwards), and they do what they’ve generally always done, shift a lot of money and admin to run through Ireland to run the majority of the market. As long as they have a flashy stall in SF with lots of lights and fireworks, Trump will be appeased and the majority of global business runs through the Irish operation. Financially, that’s what’s already happening.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

I still don’t think Apple is entirely wrong.
Yes you should be able to sideload and Apple should have really no part in that whatsoever.
However once they start throwing in random requirements that basically destroy any reason to have an Apple product, that’s where I’m just like… yeah, this makes no sense.
Apple shouldn’t have to open the Apple Watch to android phones, or have every AirPods exclusive feature work with whatever earbuds are out there, that just feels desperate on the part of the EU.
To me that feels way too close to a skip and a jump away from them demanding Apple allow any computer out there to run macOS, and allow Samsung phones to boot into iOS, and at that point, Apple is pretty much just Microsoft.
We don’t need another Microsoft.

 

[surferfb]

Where?
How?

Providing interoperability access isn't giving away the feature - or its IP - for free.

The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatekeeper.

When government mandates free choice of internet router, that doesn't mean the cable company has to give away their service to you for free (not even when they're charging rental fees for their own routers).

Not even close to the same situation. More like “ISP spends millions to develop a unique feature that increases internet speeds on its routers, it then has to give that feature to any router manufacturer connecting to their network.” No company in their right mind would develop that, because it’s just increasing their own costs while others can then come in and undercut them on price.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

There is literally nothing preventing Bose from developing this feature and letting it work in their own app.

I mean, actually, there is. The way bluetooth accessories work with iPhone / iOS, the user would have to fish their phone out and open the Bose app and fire up the translation feature that way.

At that point you'd just use the phone's translator like any normal person.

Meanwhile, airpods do not have that barrier. it's not that the airpods do the translation on device or something - they connect to the phone that does the heavy lifting. They're not magic. They're bluetooth.

 

[btrach144]

I hate it when Apple takes anti consumer stances

 

[ToothBlueth]

Not sure what people don’t understand: China is not a democracy. You complain and you lose access to a market with billions of people. You complain to the EU, which is a democracy, and you risk nothing. And the EU is only 450 million people. Of course Apple pushes back where they can and doesn’t push back where they can’t.

People here pretend Apple has morals and acts for the good of the consumer. If it really cared for things like privacy and security they'd left along time ago. They do the opposite and silently bow and comply to Xi.

And if only Apple was making statements of disagreements or filed cases to the court, at least it was in good faith, but Apple has turned to malicious compliance and petty excuses. Just so enough to keep babysitting its users for just a little longer.

 

[TracesOfArsenic]

Maybe Apple doesn’t want to go to the trouble of trying to validate accuracy and performance of its translation function with every tom Rick and harry brand of headphone.

This would seem the very reason they limit it. And if you really want it that badly, buy the Apple gear and consider it a subscription for a service that also provides you some pretty nice hardware.

That's a severely misguided take. Apple don't want to have to compete in a level playing field because they can't. Live translation is a phone feature, not a headphones feature. This is just one of the ways they gatekeep software features to drive hardware sales.

 

[Happy_John]

People here pretend Apple has morals and acts for the good of the consumer. If it really cared for things like privacy and security they'd left along time ago. They do the opposite and silently bow and comply to Xi.

And if only Apple was making statements of disagreements or filed cases to the court, at least it was in good faith, but Apple has turned to malicious compliance and petty excuses. Just so enough to keep babysitting its users for just a little longer.

Apple is a corporation. Their sole purpose is to maintain and increase shareholder value. You can't vilify them for that, because that's what corporations are.

Sad as it sounds, governments are the organizations that you should demand to look after the interests of populations, not corporations.

People on here need to stop complaining that a duck isn't a cow. The duck never claimed to be a cow in the first place.

 

[surferfb]

That's a severely misguided take. Apple don't want to have to compete in a level playing field because they can't. Live translation is a phone feature, not a headphones feature. This is just one of the ways they gatekeep software features to drive hardware sales.

The feature doesn’t work on the phone without AirPods. So it is literally a headphone feature (that yes, is powered by the phone).

Would all of you had preferred Apple wait to release this feature until it was powered by a chip on their headphones that can’t be given to third parties? Because that’s literally what you’re advocating for. Slower innovation because the EU doesn’t think other companies should have to do work.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

The feature doesn’t work on the phone without AirPods. So it is literally a headphone feature (that yes, is powered by the phone).

It's a phone feature Apple tied to their earbuds. The AirPods do not do any translating. Why are we pretending that the AirPods are crucial? Because Apple said they are?

Would all of you had preferred Apple wait to release this feature until it was powered by a chip on their headphones that can’t be given to third parties? Because that’s literally what you’re advocating for. Slower innovation because the EU doesn’t think other companies should have to do work.

Actually yeah. That would be mighty impressive, dare I say, that would've been innovative.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

I mean, actually, there is. The way bluetooth accessories work with iPhone / iOS, the user would have to fish their phone out and open the Bose app and fire up the translation feature that way.

At that point you'd just use the phone's translator like any normal person.

Meanwhile, airpods do not have that barrier. it's not that the airpods do the translation on device or something - they connect to the phone that does the heavy lifting. They're not magic. They're bluetooth.

Apple allows you to change your default Translate app to any third-party, so this is just incorrect.
Also, you still have to toggle live translation through your phone, and guess what? Third parties can make controls, they can make lock screen controls, they can make control center controls, action button controls, and home screen widgets.
Any third-party headphone company can make a translation control for the control center that works with their specific set of headphones.

 

[surferfb]

It's a phone feature Apple tied to their earbuds. The AirPods do not do any translating. Why are we pretending that the AirPods are crucial? Because Apple said they are?

Actually yeah. That would be mighty impressive, dare I say, that would've been innovative.

I’d rather have the feature now than waiting years for the tech to get there in headphones.

 

[ToothBlueth]

Apple is a corporation. Their sole purpose is to maintain and increase shareholder value. You can't vilify them for that, because that's what corporations are.

I am not vilifying them about that. Corporations can act with morals though, unfortunately morals mostly have lost the race to selfishness and money. So I am not surprised Apple is still active in autocracies.

Sad as it sounds, governments are th organizations that should be looking after the interests of populations, not corporations.

People on here need to stop complaining that a duck isn't a cow. The duck never claimed to be a cow in the first place.

Indeed! Unfortunately a whole people have been made to believe to identify with brands instead of demanding their representatives to represent them.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Apple allows you to change your default Translate app to any third-party, so this is just incorrect.

You would still need to manually open [Insert random shovelware translate app here] to use it. Point stands.

 

[macbookj0e]

“Apple had similar plans about a decade ago, but they gave up on the idea, as they realised it would trigger far too many false positives - and probably wouldn't catch any pedophiles or terrorists anyway (these groups rarely use Outlook, Facebook Messenger and Gmail to communicate ), and that it would generate far too many false positves (parents sending pictures sending photos of their kids to friends and family etc.).

The classic warning sign that politicians are trying to hide their real agenda is always when they refer to "the fight against terrorism/pedophiles" to gain support for legislation.”

^Spot on from Reddit, the EU’s ultimate intention. Same way they use “national security” as the reason they can’t give any detail.

 

[surferfb]

You would still need to manually open [Insert random shovelware translate app here] to use it. Point stands.

And you need to open the Translate app to have your words displayed to the person who presumably doesn’t speak your language.

Again, nothing preventing Bose or anyone else from doing this. They shouldn’t get the feature for free.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

You would still need to manually open [Insert random shovelware translate app here] to use it. Point stands.

No, you wouldn’t?
Developers can make lock screen controls, action button controls, control center controls, home screen widgets with controls…
Also, even the new AirPods translation feature still requires you to toggle it on. Just like any third-party control wood, which they can add to the control center. Or the lock screen. Or as an action button control.

 

[coolfactor]

I hate it when Apple takes anti consumer stances

What is anti-consumer? The reality is that today's technology is so powerful, it needs to be "managed" for the benefit of consumers. Look at the PC industry 20 years ago... fraught with compromised PCs because users can't be trusted.

Apple's lock-down approach with the introduction of the iPhone was about ensuring users have access to a wealth of software without their phones turning into virus-laden zombies.

Now, technology also evolves and there are signs that Apple's approach may be dated and have alternative solutions.

But the bottom line is that some strict protections need to be in place, whatever form that takes ... to protect consumers from themselves.

If you want a free and open platform, you have choices. Android. Apple isn't preventing you from using that.

It's very different from wanting to buy a PC, and having to pay for Windows because of Microsoft's monopoly over the industry.

 

[digimc]

The criticism of the EU on here is clearly nothing to do with tech, but has a lot to do with the realization that Europe isn't looking up to the USA anymore, it's looking downwards at the USA, sometimes laughing but mostly cringing.

I guess it's getting harder and harder to believe in Manifest Destiny when it's clearly going very wrong.

I'm off to a doctor's appointment tomorrow. The charge for the medical treatment will be zero. Then walk home with no fear whatsoever of some random maladjusted manbaby shooting me for no reason at all. And then I'll eat my dinner of chicken salad that hasn't been washed in chlorine.

In my experience, there are very very few Europeans who wish they were living in the USA right now.

But yeah, USA's the best, man. It must be awful to live as a European peasant in a freedomless, godless wasteland.

As a life long resident of U.S.A. I have to say that I agree with this post. It's getting scary over here. Too many people with big guns. Hey, Happy_John can I come live with you.