EU Probes Apple's Decision to Shut Down Epic's Developer Account

[makitango]

There is no trade war between the EU and USA. Don't make things up. Its just Apple being Apple.

Or what remains of Apple.

 

[Anaxarxes]

Well, we disagree. I have an expensive iPhone, Epic wants to give me a game (or sell me a game) and Apple is saying, no, Epic, you can’s sell it and no, stupid little iPhone owner, WE decide what you can and cannot play. (same for emulators, virtualisation etc). EU has decided it’s not up to Apple to decide that and they’re still doing it. More fines to follow. Apple is so stupid. It’s 100% predictable and more so, they’re really upsetting their userbase. Apple is ‘protecting’ me from using a 3rd party appstore when I go abroad for a while? Really? No, Apple, thank you very much.

Oh boy, where to start...

I have an expensive iPhone, Epic wants to give me a game (or sell me a game) and Apple is saying, no, you can’s sell it and no, stupid little iPhone owner, We decide what you can and cannot play.

No they are not. Thanks to DMA, EPIC can go ahead and create a marketplace or list their games on an alternative marketplace to sell their game at their own accord.

As for the 3rd party app store and abroad use, please complain to EC so that their decisions will have repercussions on FCC/DoJ as well as other regulators around the world.

Of course Apple is playing and scraping the top by doing the absolute minimum. There has to be negotiations on a regulatory adn global base to have an understanding about this issue. Singular regulators decision on their own territory will have the companies act like this.

PS: And when you say, 'we' disagree, who are those you collectively identify yourself with?

 

[jakey rolling]

Did you not read what I said? When that clause is illegal, Apple has no hold over this. Not while Apple agreed to follow the laws in said countries. If Apple says in the iTunes agreement that I vow to get a slave, then please tell me which country would enforce Apple's "claim"?
If Apple doesn't (which will likely be the case here), then this is another gamble of their poorly staffed legal team it seems.

Last time I checked Arm was British, right? Let's see what Apple can do without its A and M chips whose intellectual property is superceded by Arm. Imagine them moving to the British part that is in the EU. Apple would lose its high ground in a fortnight.

Not to mention all of Apple's business systems that are based on SAP software and their manufacturing plants that utilize equipment built by Siemens.

There seem to be a lot of American exceptionalists in threads like these who have absolutely no idea exactly how large the tech sector is in the EU. Their understanding of what a "tech company" is seems to be social media companies and software developers.

 

[makitango]

Epic is the one who tried to defraud apple. They lost their court case and have to pay legal fees and lost hundreds of millions in revenue. Who’s the crybaby? It ain’t apple.

And they won the same case against Google.

They are playing the long game and Apple is not, and the shareholders see that which is one of the poorest played cards of any matured publicly traded company.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

It is also possible that both parties are a "bad guy" in different ways.

What I don't know, because I'm not a lawyer in the E.U. (or anywhere else for that matter), is whether it's part of Apple's strategy to more or less expose before the court what Epic's hidden functionalities are.

That could have serious implications on the whole of the DMA that might have sounded good in concept but may not have been thought through, especially if it enables software manufacturers to exploit users in ways that run contrary to the spirit of E.U. tech laws and consumer protections, e.g. GDPR.

It won’t have an impact ether way because of Epic had exploited user data they would themselves been breaking other laws such as GDPR. DMA isn’t about the consumer, but the market.

There zero things Apple have exposed to the courts currently of relevance to the court of justice or the commission

 

[coolfactor]

You need to have a business relationship with Apple to write and distribute software on the Mac.

Need to part of the developer program and submit relevant details to notarise your apps.

Not true. Untrusted developers can still distribute to the Mac, and users have the option to allow that.

Not so on iOS. Only trusted developers are permitted, hence Apple acting as a gatekeeper.

 

[FaustsHausUK]

Company A breaches contract with Company B very loudly and publicly disparages them at every opportunity. Company B is told by a court of law that it is within its rights to terminate contract with Company A. Different jurisdiction gets mad when Company B... terminates contracts with Company A, even though there is evidence it will breach contracts again.

I think Apple were correct here, even though it is a pyrrhic victory for them - the perception and backlash are going to be severe.

 

[makitango]

Not true. Untrusted developers can still distribute to the Mac, and users have the option to allow that.

Not so on iOS. Only trusted developers are permitted, hence Apple acting as a gatekeeper.

Adding that criticizing developers have now been added to that list. Reminds me of the "unfriendly country" term.

 

[bigjnyc]

Everything in the public space and with their citizens must be peachy in the EU that the government has so much time to worry about a private company.

 

[makitango]

Company A breaches contract with Company B very loudly and publicly disparages them at every opportunity. Company B is told by a court of law that it is within its rights to terminate contract with Company A. Different jurisdiction gets mad when Company B... terminates contracts with Company A, even though there is evidence it will breach contracts again.

I think Apple were correct here, even though it is a pyrrhic victory for them - the perception and backlash are going to be severe.

There are two contracts, one as a developer, one with the App Store distribution.

This case is about the prior and the company being stripped of the right which has been underscored as fundamental. Epic has a right to publish on that platform even if Epic not not kissing Apple's ring.

 

[Beautyspin]

APPLE is the new Karen. She want to be the gatekeeper and at the same time decide, who can or can not create new stores for iOS, in the EU. We, europeans, despise segregation.

As a gatekeeper; she is obliged to deal with anyone and everyone who wants to create a new store for iOS on EU, eg: EPIC (although both are obnoxious and malicious companies).

In the end; both companies want we to depart from our money on their behalf, BUT both need to comply with the EU laws.

The latest developments clearly show us that the EC, should be the gatekeeper in the EU.

This is what Vestager tweeted. Based on this, looks like Apple's goose is cooked.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765705945156378649

 

[makitango]

Everything in the public space and with their citizens must be peachy in the EU that the government has so much time to worry about a private company.

The DMA is looking into this, not the whole government. Nothign mroe, nothing less. Exactly as designed.

This product does its job. Can't say that for many of Apple's products lately.

 

[treacher]

Company A breaches contract with Company B very loudly and publicly disparages them at every opportunity. Company B is told by a court of law that it is within its rights to terminate contract with Company A. Different jurisdiction gets mad when Company B... terminates contracts with Company A, even though there is evidence it will breach contracts again.

I think Apple were correct here, even though it is a pyrrhic victory for them - the perception and backlash are going to be severe.

Both companies did something wrong, but one did something wrong consciously. Epic were openly defiant to elicit change. A change that is now occurring. They even took a major, major hit to their bottom line on principle, a behavior I don't believe Apple has the backbone to equal.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Or what remains of Apple.

It remain the 8th biggest company in the world in revenue, after Amazon and other American companies. It's currently the #1 technology company by revenue. I hope it remains or even climbs it further.

I repeat, the DMA has nothing to do with companies being American or otherwise. Just look at the facts and don't get tangled up with the Apple reality distortion field.

 

[makitango]

It remain the 8th biggest company in the world in revenue, after Amazon and other American companies. I hope it remains or even climbs it further.

I hope so too because I still have substantial stocks in them. But obviously I lost swathes of hope already.

For tax and diversification reasons, I still hold onto them.

 

[B-Mc-C]

There is no Supreme Court in the EU. There is the European court of justice which is what will ultimately decide on this. What will be put in doubt is not Apple right to sign contracts with parties of their choosing, but the fact a contract with Apple is at all needed to publish apps outside the App Store. The whole point of the DMA is break Apple’s monopoly on the iPhone apps, so it is this requirement that will eventually be removed: Apple will be free not to sign an agreement with other parties, but the other parties will not need such agreement to create other app stores or publish apps in them.

So you are saying the EU can effectively force Apple into a non-profit charitable entity where everything they’ve poured billions into building becomes open source and there is no such thing as intellectual property. No thanks. Would love to see this happen, because it would force Apple to simply pull out of the EU, and the people would revolt. 🙂

 

[Jamie0003]

..up to the point where the government of a given jurisdiction says that such terms are illegal.

Oh yeah? Have you got a copy of that change?

 

[makitango]

So you are saying the EU can effectively force Apple into a non-profit charitable entity where everything they’ve poured billions into building becomes open source and there is no such thing as intellectual property. No thanks. Would love to see this happen, because it would force Apple to simply pull out of the EU, and the people would revolt. 🙂

Look at these guys wishing for things to go down ugly.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I hope so too because I still have substantial stocks in them. But obviously I lost swathes of hope already.

For tax and diversification reasons, I still hold onto them.

In the current climate I would say copper, gold and armament. It is crazy I know. People here are just pretending that nothing is happening while salivating for a device that will keep that further apart from reality, an alternate reality governed by their favorite private company created to siphon money. But what money if any? It is not gonna happen in the EU ... maybe in NYC et all until the markets hit the fan.

The stupid thing is that some around here are even turning their mindshare against their allies ignoring most of the facts, just because it is Apple. Dystopian mentality built around brands and super icons.

 

[I7guy]

And they won the same case against Google.

They are playing the long game and Apple is not, and the shareholders see that which is one of the poorest played cards of any matured publicly traded company.

Epic is playing the long game into oblivion. If any company knows how to play the long game is apple. But I’m sure we will disagree.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Do you though?

Nope.

 

[psume]

play stupid games win stupid prizes

 

[cupcakes2000]

And this right here is why I'm sick of listening to this argument.

Creating an app marketplace for free on a platform you didn't develop is not your right - If you want special privileges you better work with the company in charge.

Yet, that is how every other general purpose computing platform works, desktop, tablet and mobile. So …

 

[makitango]

Epic is playing the long game into oblivion. If any company knows how to play the long game is apple. But I’m sure we will disagree.

Apple has played this game for a relatively short time, so no, there is no knowledge about playing the long game.

Littlefinger also played the long game, and lost.

Both Apple and Littlefinger fell victim to their ego. This usually doesn't go down well and every shareholder knows it.

 

[walnuts]

I think we are missing a big piece of the puzzle here. Not saying anyone is right or wrong here... these are both less than innocent giant companies seeking money. But that said, the narrative has hinted that Apple did this largely because they were upset about a tweet.

• I can't imagine anyone at Apple would be surprised that Epic would continue to publicly be negative to Apple. They are still fighting in court.
• Many people including lawyers and PR people were involved in this decision. While not impossible, I find it highly unlikely that this was done purely out of spite, in particular with other negative consequences very likely (an EU probe, less favorable consideration of their DMA response, etc.)
• My guess is that Epic did something else shady and Apple is responding to that without calling them out on it. It's totally Apple's style to do something like this and let everyone figure out that Epic did something to justify this. (Again, not saying this makes Apple Good and Epic Bad, just that its not purely Epic Good, Apple Bad.)