EU Probes Apple's Decision to Shut Down Epic's Developer Account

[jakey rolling]

Why. The court stated they were allowed to. If the EU wants to go against court rulings with their own BS rules. Businesses will pull out. Epic have breach TOS which is effectively a contract.

No EU court stated they were allowed to. US courts don't have jurisdiction in the EU.

You can wish for businesses to pull out the EU all you want. The fact that Apple hasn't pulled out yet should tell you all you need to know about your wishful thinking.

 

[one more]

EU - if Apple stops investing in jobs in your regions, the blame falls on this over reaching organization.

This is getting way out of hand.

Apple will not sabotage a 1/4 of their income. Besides, in the EU Apple are based in Ireland and, therefore, have it quite creamy with taxes, compared to other EU countries.

Epic might well be rebels, yet Apple are not a victim.

 

[Jamie0003]

Epic already paid for the dev tools.

And then they went and broke apples agreement, multiple times. How is this apples fault?

 

[makitango]

And then they went and broke apples agreement, multiple times. How is this apples fault?

Doesn‘t change the fact that they already paid, and never violated the developer‘s agreement.

They violated the App Store agreement, and the EU is likely to look into the connection of the two as it stems clear that Apple still controls who gets to develop apps and who doesn‘t.

This stunt right now shows that something as little as Apple liking or disliking them is enough to pass the sentence.

 

[skit911]

And that will be Apple's argument. But Epic doesn't want to pay anyone to be on an app store.

And this right here is why I'm sick of listening to this argument.

Creating an app marketplace for free on a platform you didn't develop is not your right - If you want special privileges you better work with the company in charge.

 

[Jamie0003]

Doesn‘t change the fact that they already paid.

Do you not understand how SLA’s work or something? Epic is still bound to those terms no matter what

 

[skit911]

Apple sales are falling in China, they should try these shenanigans over there to see how much power they actually hold over regions outside US.

Yeah let's compare a communist country vs the EU.

1 is trying to control their citizens and the other is trying (way too hard) to spur competition.

I may not agree with what the EU is doing but let's not glorify a communist country's power over it's citizens

 

[makitango]

And this right here is why I'm sick of listening to this argument.

Creating an app marketplace for free on a platform you didn't develop is not your right - If you want special privileges you better work with the company in charge.

It is if you're from the EU. Because Apple is also just operating an app marketplace in the EU. They have to adhere to the EU's rules just as others have to Apple's.

Any company can create any sort of business but to act on that business in any region fo the world, you have to comply. Apple complies with many companies which practice things that is far opposite than anything Apple preaches in their code of conduct. I hear no complaint about that, but lots about the EU (which is actually responsible for many customer-friendly things Apple does, and not on its own terms), so there is little integrity it seems.

 

[jakey rolling]

Would you expect an untrustworthy developer to comply even with the new EU rules? Or would you expect them to further stretch and break the rules in order to get what they want?

Considering the "rule" that Epic broke was one that would now be illegal in the EU, yes, I would expect them to follow EU law.

The EU should be very clear in their rule making. I do think it is true that there need to be rules for very large companies with significant market share, but it won't be easy due to all the technical intricacies.

There is good reason for a rule like this to be written more generally rather than targeting specific activities - companies have a tendency to find ways to skirt the written specifics of a rule.

 

[GrayFlannel]

All I can do is facepalm at how Apple is shooting themselves in the foot. If they acted like a good gatekeeper in spirit of the DMA, they could have kept all the security provisions they have put in place (which are good IMO). But this action show that they cannot be trusted to be fair and non-discriminatory (which is required by the DMA) and they indeed risk that the EC will require that they allow third-party app stores without any agreement with Apple.

Apple is also being truly hypocritical about the DMA in general. They write passive-aggressive messaging every opportunity they get to talk about the DMA. But you rarely hear them, let alone write in the way they do, about all the modifications they make to accommodate the PRC.

At this point, Apple should try to smooth things out with the EU (out of responsibility towards their users) rather than continuously antagonize the EU. It is a battle they cannot win (they are not lawmakers). In that way they could keep more protections up that (probably) most iPhone users want.

Apple‘s products are not what they once were so they have to rely heavily on their brand for value. Unfortunately Apple’s reputation and brand are suffering. Cook rode the brand’s success for all he could.

 

[Phoenixer]

Honestly, this is really getting ridiculous. When did it become okay for governments to make every single decision for a company and to scrutinize every single strategic decision for a company like this? And why does the U.S. government allow Europe to target American tech companies like this to help their own tech companies like this? Honestly, the government needs to step up.

 

[jakey rolling]

Do you not understand how SLA’s work or something? Epic is still bound to those terms no matter what

Do you understand how contract laws work? Nobody is bound to contractual terms that are deemed illegal.

 

[makitango]

Do you understand how contract laws work? Nobody is bound to contractual terms that are deemed illegal.

I think he doesn't understand that he can be thankful for these regulators that he doesn't have to worry about clicking agree on a contract that hid somewhere that he's required to eat his cat when making an in-app purchase.

Honestly, this is really getting ridiculous. When did it become okay for governments to make every single decision for a company and to scrutinize every single strategic decision for a company like this? And why does the U.S. government allow Europe to target American tech companies like this to help their own tech companies like this? Honestly, the government needs to step up.

Every single decision? They cut anti-competitive control on their territory. This territory is not Apple's.

And you are not Apple's customer unless you are a major stakeholder, which would be an influential shareholder.

 

[makitango]

Do you not understand how SLA’s work or something? Epic is still bound to those terms no matter what

I don't have to understand anything. I only have to know what my rights in the EU are. And Apple can't make me eat my cat or sacrifice a rat just because it's in their contract somewhere.

 

[jakey rolling]

Honestly, this is really getting ridiculous. When did it become okay for governments to make every single decision for a company and to scrutinize every single strategic decision for a company like this?

It has always been the job of governments (yes, even democratic, capitalist ones) to rein in companies that make business decisions that damage the free marketplace. It sucks for US consumers that the US government has largely been neglectful of that responsibility, but that doesn't mean that EU governments also have to be.

And why does the U.S. government allow Europe to target American tech companies like this to help their own tech companies like this? Honestly, the government needs to step up.

Because those American tech companies want to operate in countries that are not America. By doing so, they are making a conscious choice to adhere to the laws of those other countries. Apple has every right to leave the EU. Instead, they chose to open an EU subsidiary and make specific concessions to adhere to EU laws. Outside of all of the bluster coming from Apple's fans, Apple themselves seem to think it is still worthwhile to operate in such a supposed "business-adverse" environment.

As far as the US government "allowing" Europe to enforce their own laws - what do you want the US to do? Start a trade war with the EU? Start an actual war with the EU? Because neither of those things will benefit Apple or any other US company that wants to operate in the EU.

 

[skit911]

Epic already paid for the dev tools.

It's not a one time payment kinda thing. If you want to continue to use them in your apps you need to remain a developer and maintain a contractual agreement with the company that develops them

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Honestly, this is really getting ridiculous. When did it become okay for governments to make every single decision for a company and to scrutinize every single strategic decision for a company like this? And why does the U.S. government allow Europe to target American tech companies like this to help their own tech companies like this? Honestly, the government needs to step up.

Hey. Epic is an all American company. How does that fit in your current theory?

To put it simply, EU will not allow any foreign company with relevant presence in its communication infrastructure, to act as any kind of gatekeeper for communication and digital commerce by any measure. If you want be a player in the comm infrastructure, either by providing devices (say smartphones and computers to routers), services (say ISP or cloud services) you will need to follow this reasoning.

 

[j26]

I don't have to understand anything. I only have to know what my rights in the EU are. And Apple can't make me eat my cat or sacrifice a rat just because it's in their contract somewhere.

Depends on the rat....

 

[makitango]

Apple will never leave the EU because Apple has a grandfathered tax agreement with Ireland, which practically makes their EU revenue tax-free because they sell their wares to their domestic companies at retail, meaning all the tax money they would naturally generate is voided by their grandfathered "data plan". Domestic Apple companies are basically not generating any income becuase all revenue is generated in Ireland's gold mine.

Only a business fool would leave this arrangement, and while Tim's not a visionary, he's also not dumb. He would rather move the business to Ireland.

 

[makitango]

It's not a one time payment kinda thing. If you want to continue to use them in your apps you need to remain a developer and maintain a contractual agreement with the company that develops them

You cannot simply transfer elements of one contract to another.

The EU will see to that legality being fulfilled.

 

[Phoenixer]

Hey. Epic is an all American company. How does that fit in your current theory?

I meant in general

 

[Japan Ricardo]

Probably best if the EU just bans all Apple products and force everyone to use Android and Windows.

 

[Phoenixer]

Trade war sounds good it’s not like the EU would win

 

[Phoenixer]

I think he doesn't understand that he can be thankful for these regulators that he doesn't have to worry about clicking agree on a contract that hid somewhere that he's required to eat his cat when making an in-app purchase.

Every single decision? They cut anti-competitive control on their territory. This territory is not Apple's.

And you are not Apple's customer unless you are a major stakeholder, which would be an influential shareholder.

Trade war sounds good. EU wouldn’t win anyways

 

[j26]

Trade war sounds good it’s not like the EU would win

Nobody wins a trade war...