EU Probes Apple's Decision to Shut Down Epic's Developer Account

[Sowelu]

Apple should pull the AppStore out of the EU, put them in a corner, and have them come back out when their thirst subsides.

 

[makitango]

The DMA doesn't require Apple to give a developer account to everyone regardless of their actions. That would mean that developers could just ignore Apple's terms of service at will. Thus the "probe". Apple's point that Epic already violated the terms of service in the U.S. and that courts ruled in Apple's favor in that regard does have relevance.

However, if the EU rules that Apple has to allow Epic to have an EU store then the EU has put itself in the position of vouching for Epic despite their past behavior...and would look pretty stupid if Epic subsequently violates Apple's terms of service under the DMA.

The DMA requires Apple to allow Epic to publish apps on iOS. It's that simple.
If Apple is playing shenanigans by hiding that they can't because they block the way at any given door, they are in violation of said law.

 

[gnipgnop]

The DMA requires Apple to allow Epic to publish apps on iOS. It's that simple.

Why would they need a "probe" if it's a requirement?

 

[Beautyspin]

It is right now, but soon that "second largest market" is going to cost them more than they make here. Which would mean bye bye EU.

Then, as somebody else said elsewhere, Apple should say bye bye Earth Market. Because UK, US, Japan, Australia, and South Korea are all coming up with similar laws.

 

[LightProtector]

I like Fortnite and Epic Games as a marketplace (second to Steam). I think Apple is overstepping their bounds here. If Epic really is "dishonest", which is definitely warranted considering their trojan third-party payment system in Fortnite, then they can just keep them from publishing in the App Store. But let them open their own marketplace. I know the cast majority of the audience here are "oh fortnite bad, so epic bad", so I don't expect many people to agree with me.

 

[I7guy]

Then, as somebody else said elsewhere, Apple should say bye bye Earth Market. Because UK, US, Japan, Australia, and South Korea are all coming up with similar laws.

When they pass and become law we’ll discuss it. And I’m quite sure governments don’t want to open up apple but allow the platform to be used in a bad manner.

 

[trusso]

The only company I see acting in bad faith right now is Apple.

Phil Schiller needs to go.

 

[So@So@So]

It was obvious that this would happen and Apple probably will need to reinstantiate the developer account again. Unnecessary bad publicity for Apple...

 

[gnipgnop]

But let them open their own marketplace. I know the cast majority of the audience here are "oh fortnite bad, so epic bad", so I don't expect many people to agree with me.

The EU isn't preventing Apple from having terms of service for the 3rd party app stores so Epic's intentional violations of terms of service in the United States can't be completely dismissed. It's definitely not an arbitrary action on Apple's part. Just have to see if the EU wants to go to bat for Epic and then risk having them blow up that support later on.

 

[threesixty360]

Ridiculous notion. You’re implying that this extremely contentious rule was set up without experts in the field? Come on now.

They did the same with GDPR. You think they intended for every website to be constantly asking you to agree to stuff every time you go to their page?

You also have to remember that Apple is literally the only main stream OS supplier that has a system as locked down as this. So by definition pretty much all the experts you bring will have another perspective to Apples view. So I think it’s pretty easy for them, fueled by Spotify (an EU company) to come up with rulings that they haven’t thought through.

Unless you think lawmakers are androids and have no blind spots?

 

[gnipgnop]

When they pass and become law we’ll discuss it. And I’m quite sure governments don’t want to open up apple but allow the platform to be used in a bad manner.

Yeah, people are going overboard in terms of interpreting the DMA as if it's turned Apple into a public utility of the EU.

 

[MilaM]

Apple's reaction to this is really hilariously bad. Who do they think they are going to impress with this posturing? Lawmakers all around the world are likely watching this very closely. If there were any doubts about the need for this kind of legislation before, I think they are gone now. I would not be surprised if Phil Schiller will have to speed up his retirements plans over this.

 

[dead.cell]

I like Fortnite and Epic Games as a marketplace (second to Steam). I think Apple is overstepping their bounds here. If Epic really is "dishonest", which is definitely warranted considering their trojan third-party payment system in Fortnite, then they can just keep them from publishing in the App Store. But let them open their own marketplace. I know the cast majority of the audience here are "oh fortnite bad, so epic bad", so I don't expect many people to agree with me.

They are dishonest though. That's my biggest beef with them is that it's literally some greedy scummy corporate guy complaining that another company isn't treating them fairly, when they were the ones to deliberately breach contract.

But maybe I too am just a little biased, when a game like Rocket League gets swept up by Epic, removed from Steam, and Linux compatibility removed. Then Tim Sweeney has the gall to talk about player choice... 🤡

 

[gnipgnop]

Apple's reaction to this is really hilariously bad. Who do they think they are going to impress with this posturing? Lawmakers all around the world are likely watching this very closely.

Who did Epic impress by losing in U.S. court per their intentional violation of Apple's terms of service? Who did they impress by saying Apple's EU terms of service under the DMA were "hot garbage"?

 

[Beautyspin]

Yeah, people are going overboard in terms of interpreting the DMA as if it's turned Apple into a public utility of the EU.

Vestager tweeted specifically about Epic games today. Looks like Apple has shot itself in the foot.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765705945156378649

 

[Delivered]

I think they may have done this to push the whole thing to the Supreme Court in the EU.
You're basically forcing a company to go into a contract with another company who have consistently lied and acted in bad faith. Is that even legal?

Is Apple now a utility company providing energy or something? The EU will have to revise what their rules mean. Again, they haven't thought it through. On one side they say that apple needs to make sure apps from third parties are secure etc, which means they have to sign these apps one way or another centrally. But on the other side they are implying apple should let software come in from anywhere and they have no right to vet it. Can you have both things on a OS that is designed in this way? And more importantly, should apple be legally forced to help companies deploy on their platform if that company is harmful or dishonest to Apple?

Lots to chew on here.. My bet is the EU has tangled itself up without fully understanding the technology.

You make a good point. It’s possible Apple is throwing a tantrum to see if the can force EU to back down. But are they prepared to start pulling out of the EU? I doubt it but the bend to China every time but bite and fight with EU at every turn. Happy for them to fight EU on anticonsumer actions but these are pro consumer actions they fight against and bend to China on anticonsumer actions most of the time. It’s bewildering.

I don’t want companies more powerful than governments.

 

[I7guy]

Apple's reaction to this is really hilariously bad. Who do they think they are going to impress with this posturing? Lawmakers all around the world are likely watching this very closely. If there were any doubts about the need for this kind of legislation before, I think they are gone now. I would not be surprised if Phil Schiller had to speed up his retirements plans over this.

Yep, epics ban is justifiable.

 

[Beautyspin]

Apple requires a developer account, so without that you can't start an alternative store or release your app in a store someone else made. Downloading an app via the browser like on macOS is not possible, so Epic can't do anything.

Who decided that it is a requirement? Did the requirement come from heaven or was it Apple which decided that that is a requirement? If it is Apple that is deciding on the requirements for alt appstores, then what is the point of alt appstores. Are you telling us that Apple decides who will open the appstores that will be their competitors and decide what the requirements of the appstores will be? And you think the EU will agree to that? I am skeptical about the whole thing. It might blow up in Apple's face.

 

[Delivered]

Who did Epic impress by losing in U.S. court per their intentional violation of Apple's terms of service? Who did they impress by saying Apple's EU terms of service under the DMA were "hot garbage"?

It wasn’t JUST epic that said that. EVERYONE did. The biggest Apple fans thought it was a pile of turd.

 

[I7guy]

[…]

I don’t want companies more powerful than governments.

I don’t want bad governments more powerful than good companies.

 

[Rogifan]

Sony and Nintendo are highly profitable as well, so clearly, their 30% cut of games is also more than just about covering costs.

I don't bring it up because I feel the hardware margins are irrelevant in this discussion. So what if the iPhone is insanely profitable? Does that mean that Apple is somehow expected to just subsidise the running of the App Store and isn't allowed to make a single cent of profit off it ever?

Also, not every iPhone costs $1000. There's the $400 iPhone SE, there's the entry level $329 iPad 9, there's the discontinued iPod touch, and there's also the second hand iPhone someone bought off the grey market in lieu of a brand new iPhone from Apple. I assume that one of the chief reasons Apple is willing to support their devices as long as they do (even if it comes at the expense of some users holding on to their devices longer and upgrading less often) is because of the expectation that these iOS users will still earn Apple some money by way of sales of additional accessories, apps, subscriptions and services like Apple Pay. It's all connected, and it's all factored in.

At the heart of the matter, I maintain that Apple is entitled to monetise their IP however they wish by virtue of them selling a vertically integrated product. The right way to approach is if the EU had acknowledged this right from the very start, while also stating that this has to be balanced with the good of society as a whole. Instead, they decided to wage a war with Apple (the optics of which are somewhat coloured by their apparently blatant and open support of Spotify, a home-grown company), and so long as the EU refuses to be honest about just what they are trying to do, I support Apple's decision to keep pushing and testing every boundary of the DMA until we get real clarity about what is being asked.

There’s a difference in monetizing IP and squeezing every last cent out of the App Store that they can. Right now many think Apple is doing the latter. And how do you explain Steve Jobs saying they wanted to run the App Store as break even? Do you think he was wrong to think/say that? Is Apple not able to monetize it’s IP running App Store as break even?

 

[Delivered]

Who decided that it is a requirement? Did the requirement come from heaven or was it Apple which decided that that is a requirement? If it is Apple that is deciding on the requirements for alt appstores, then what is the point of alt appstores. Are you telling us that Apple decides who will open the appstores that will be their competitors and decide what the requirements of the appstores will be? And you think the EU will agree to that? I am skeptical about the whole thing. It might blow up in Apple's face.

I hope this leads to full sideloading being opened up.

 

[Delivered]

No longer a monopoly if there are alternative app stores.

It is if Apple controls who can open an app store. We need full Android style side loading.

 

[I7guy]

There’s a difference in monetizing IP and squeezing every last cent out of the App Store that they can. Right now many think Apple is doing the latter. And how do you explain Steve Jobs saying they wanted to run the App Store as break even? Do you think he was wrong to think/say that?

Times change and I’m not getting which threshold is acceptable.

Is Apple not able to monetize its IP running App Store as break even?

Why should it. Would you personally take less compensation?

 

[I7guy]

I hope this leads to full sideloading being opened up.

It won’t because it will turn apples ecosystem into a security nightmare. And governments won’t want to use the platform to support bad activities with no way to stop it.