EU to Close Antitrust Investigation into Apple's Browser Choice Screen

[I7guy]

You are missing the point
The reason the EU are regulating Apple & Google is because there is no major competition
In regards to search engine & mobile OS’s
Because how the current market is setup
That’s all

The reason to me at least in the eu is why there are no major competition is exhibit a, the DMA. So the EUs thought to make it easier for competitors to get a foothold is to make android and iOS and windows a functional equivalent. Essentially removing the soul of Apple. We will see.

 

[I7guy]

How can google have a better experience than baidu at search
That’s impossible

Because there is a depth and breadth of uncensored internet and products.

Ok but it’s not about objective facts
It’s a fact that harmony os is better than iOS in china if that wasn’t the case then why is china the only country in the world that apple discounts there latest iPhone on sale.

What does the sale price of a phone have to do with anything? It doesn’t.

It’s not about subjective or objective
The question was how can baidu be a
sub standard experience if you have never used it

I can have an opinion based on the facts of the matter. And those are baidu is censored.

Ok so they are dumbing down in class because they are giving customers a choice at the start screen & making people aware that other search engines exist & that’s a bad thing

We agree it’s a bad thing.

 

[Stuwil]

Yep. I’m not a fan of those either. Regulations should be fair.


There’s a difference between fostering a home grown competitor and actively stacking the deck against foreign companies. And I think we can both agree the EU’s political environment is preferable to a “communist” dictatorship that tramples human rights.


I didn’t say that wasn’t correct, I said that because Google search doesn’t compete in China you can’t say the Chinese market thinks Baidu is better than Google.


I think this is what you are missing: I don’t think the browser choice screen increases competition. In fact, I think it will lead to less competition in the long run, because many “normal users” will select the option they’ve heard of (Chrome) vs Safari, further strengthening Google.

To be abundantly clear, I support competition. I just think the DMA will lead to less competition and worse products.

I think your missing the point nobody is forced to use harmony os in china that’s why android has a commanding mobile OS lead
However what it does do is essentially give consumers an actual choice between 3 platforms unlike in the west.

Again your not forced to buy a huawei device & it competes against Apple & android by the actual tech they put into it.

Again it’s not about current users it’s about new users going forward because generally what happens is you just leave the default search engine as is.
But on this occasion it’s presenting you with a choice regardless if you think people will still pick chrome or safari it’s not about that.

Again the fundamental issue is chrome is the default search engine on over 3.5 billion devices now that is not going to change because of how android is structured however because iOS is a competitor that uses Google under safari then they can say there should be a start screen With a choice
Because the EU can’t say Google your not allowed in the EU

Because the only country in the world that has successfully stopped Google’s search engine is china now you could argue that it’s wrong or not but what it does show you is for another company to succeed against them is to basically restrict them

 

[Stuwil]

Because there is a depth and breadth of uncensored internet and products.

What does the sale price of a phone have to do with anything? It doesn’t.

I can have an opinion based on the facts of the matter. And those are baidu is censored.

We agree it’s a bad thing.

Ok but how can google have a better experience than baidu it’s actually impossible mate

Because it shows that Apple are struggling to compete against the 2 other OS’s in that market because of competition
That’s why

Ok so if baidu is censored & it’s only available in one country then how can you have a sub standard experience with it compared to Google

I actually think it’s a good thing to give people a choice because when most people get a mobile for the first time they just go with the default search engine regardless because they don’t know any better

 

[Stuwil]

The reason to me at least in the eu is why there are no major competition is exhibit a, the DMA. So the EUs thought to make it easier for competitors to get a foothold is to make android and iOS and windows a functional equivalent. Essentially removing the soul of Apple. We will see.

That’s not why there is no competition for iOS or android in the EU you can use that logic for every place apart from china
And it’s got nothing to do with company’s have tried like Amazon & Microsoft & blackberry when they brought out a touchscreen OS.

 

[surferfb]

I think your missing the point nobody is forced to use harmony os in china that’s why android has a commanding mobile OS lead
However what it does do is essentially give consumers an actual choice between 3 platforms unlike in the west.

Again your not forced to buy a huawei device & it competes against Apple & android by the actual tech they put into it.

While you're correct that nobody is "forced" to use Huawei, but China does all sorts of things to encourage its citizens to use Huawei devices over foreign.

• Chinese government agencies have prohibited employees from using non-domestic handsets.
• The Chinese government has advocated using products from Chinese companies as a form of patriotism and national pride
• The Chinese government has given Huawei substantial financial support, include loans, credit lines, and tax incentives
• The Chinese government has given subsidies to purchase smartphones priced under a certain threshold, making Huawei products more affordable for lower-income citizens

I'm not saying any of the above is wrong, and in fact I'd encourage Europe to do a lot of the same things to encourage a European brand to rise up. But doing stuff like that is how the Chinese government helped a competitor form. Just coming in with a law like the DMA isn't going to add a third OS. And the west (correctly, IMO) isn't going to let Huawei come in because of their massive ties to the Chinese military-intelligence complex. So, why won't the EU do the hard work to support a "domestic" competitor like China did?

Again it’s not about current users it’s about new users going forward because generally what happens is you just leave the default search engine as is.
But on this occasion it’s presenting you with a choice regardless if you think people will still pick chrome or safari it’s not about that.

Users going forward aren't going to use search the way you or I do. They're going to use AI. So all this is doing is closing the barn door after all the horses have already escaped, while annoying users by making them select Google Search when 98% of them were going to select Google Search anyway, and the other 2% already know how to change the default search engine.

Again the fundamental issue is chrome is the default search engine on over 3.5 billion devices now that is not going to change because of how android is structured however because iOS is a competitor that uses Google under safari then they can say there should be a start screen With a choice

Again, the EU is perfectly within their rights to demand a start screen to select a browser/search engine. But all it's going to do is make Chrome/Google Search stronger and not actually do what the regulators think it's going to do.

Because the EU can’t say Google your not allowed in the EU

Because the only country in the world that has successfully stopped Google’s search engine is china now you could argue that it’s wrong or not but what it does show you is for another company to succeed against them is to basically restrict them

I think we’re just fundamentally not going to agree here and that’s fine, but I'd argue you can support home grown innovation without restricting others. And nothing the DMA does is going to result in new competitors coming up to fight Apple or Google. In fact, it's more likely to cement them in the short term than anything else.

But arguing "no one can ever compete" with Apple and Google is like saying the CEO of Palm saying:

We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. The PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.

People are already starting to talk about how Apple's stance with developers and lack of AI coding tools is making Apple platforms a much less attractive proposition for young developers. Can Apple turn it around? Absolutely. But assuming Apple is forever going to have 30% of the market because they currently have 30% of the market is just as silly as thinking because IBM owned PCs IBM would always own PCs.

 

[Stuwil]

While you're correct that nobody is "forced" to use Huawei, but China does all sorts of things to encourage its citizens to use Huawei devices over foreign.

• Chinese government agencies have prohibited employees from using non-domestic handsets.
• The Chinese government has advocated using products from Chinese companies as a form of patriotism and national pride
• The Chinese government has given Huawei substantial financial support, include loans, credit lines, and tax incentives
• The Chinese government has given subsidies to purchase smartphones priced under a certain threshold, making Huawei products more affordable for lower-income citizens

I'm not saying any of the above is wrong, and in fact I'd encourage Europe to do a lot of the same things to encourage a European brand to rise up. But doing stuff like that is how the Chinese government helped a competitor form. Just coming in with a law like the DMA isn't going to add a third OS. And the west (correctly, IMO) isn't going to let Huawei come in because of their massive ties to the Chinese military-intelligence complex. So, why won't the EU do the hard work to support a "domestic" competitor like China did?


Users going forward aren't going to use search the way you or I do. They're going to use AI. So all this is doing is closing the barn door after all the horses have already escaped, while annoying users by making them select Google Search when 98% of them were going to select Google Search anyway, and the other 2% already know how to change the default search engine.


Again, the EU is perfectly within their rights to demand a start screen to select a browser/search engine. But all it's going to do is make Chrome/Google Search stronger and not actually do what the regulators think it's going to do.


I think we’re just fundamentally not going to agree here and that’s fine, but I'd argue you can support home grown innovation without restricting others. And nothing the DMA does is going to result in new competitors coming up to fight Apple or Google. In fact, it's more likely to cement them in the short term than anything else.

But arguing "no one can ever compete" with Apple and Google is like saying the CEO of Palm saying:


People are already starting to talk about how Apple's stance with developers and lack of AI coding tools is making Apple platforms a much less attractive proposition for young developers. Can Apple turn it around? Absolutely. But assuming Apple is forever going to have 30% of the market because they currently have 30% of the market is just as silly as thinking because IBM owned PCs IBM would always own PCs.

It’s not about the future mate
It’s about the here & now regarding search engines & Google’s commanding lead they have built up because of how they have done android & as a consequence of that nobody else has a realistic chance.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Yes it’s not googles job to help competitors however as a consequence of that we now have one dominant company

Can you name a company that has a better search engine? They've had nearly 30 years to make one. If one doesn't exist, the default option is irrelevant because the best option is the default option anyway.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Right
Now again how can a competitor rise to the top if chrome is pre installed on the world’s most popular mobile OS?

The only way you will realistically stop that is if there was a 3rd OS with a big user base with about 1 billion active users however said company is restricted in the west.

By early adopters trying it, realizing it's better, and spreading that information to more people. The same way the "big guy" has been taken down in everything. Remember, there was a time Google was the little guy. Yet they still won by being the best. Same for Apple killing Blackberry, etc.

 

[Stuwil]

Can you name a company that has a better search engine? They've had nearly 30 years to make one. If one doesn't exist, the default option is irrelevant because the best option is the default option anyway.

That’s because they are the default search engine pre installed in over 3.5 billion devices so naturally that has allowed them to have an advantage & get better because of the default status on android for a start
& as a consequence of that then customers are less likely to install a 3rd party search engine
Hence why google actually bought android in the first place

 

[surferfb]

It’s not about the future mate
It’s about the here & now regarding search engines & Google’s commanding lead they have built up because of how they have done android & as a consequence of that nobody else has a realistic chance.

If it's not about the future why do you keep referring to "new users moving forward."?

I fundamentally disagree that no one has a realistic chance. Google's search is already losing users thanks to AI.

And again, all a choice screen is going to do is annoy users and strengthen the brands people have already heard of (i.e. Google). Not sure why you and EU regulators can't seem to understand that.

 

[Stuwil]

By early adopters trying it, realizing it's better, and spreading that information to more people. The same way the "big guy" has been taken down in everything. Remember, there was a time Google was the little guy. Yet they still won by being the best. Same for Apple killing Blackberry, etc.

Ok but right now Google own android & because of that then chrome is pre installed on every device
So in turn lies the problem

 

[I7guy]

That’s not why there is no competition for iOS or android in the EU you can use that logic for every place apart from china

China didn’t sponsor a DMA.

And it’s got nothing to do with company’s have tried like Amazon & Microsoft & blackberry when they brought out a touchscreen OS.

This is today in the EU not the US.

 

[I7guy]

Ok but how can google have a better experience than baidu it’s actually impossible mate

Because the breadth and depth of data are there and google is not censored.

Because it shows that Apple are struggling to compete against the 2 other OS’s in that market because of competition
That’s why

No because it’s not Apple that’s struggling to compete, it’s the government that’s running interference. Quite a difference.

Ok so if baidu is censored & it’s only available in one country then how can you have a sub standard experience with it compared to Google

Because of what you said.

I actually think it’s a good thing to give people a choice because when most people get a mobile for the first time they just go with the default search engine regardless because they don’t know any better

So the masses don’t know any better? I don’t think you are correct on this.

 

[I7guy]

That’s because they are the default search engine pre installed in over 3.5 billion devices so naturally that has allowed them to have an advantage & get better because of the default status on android for a start
& as a consequence of that then customers are less likely to install a 3rd party search engine
Hence why google actually bought android in the first place

Google was the heavy weight before the smartphone and began to become popular in 2000. A full 7 years before the iPhone. So another of your “facts” is incorrect.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Except the law was clearly written to target American companies and avoid hitting European ones.

But you don’t have to take my word for it.
Here’s a European professor:

The EU has to follow its own laws except where VERY specifically exempt.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

But you don’t want the EU to actually have their own search engine or mobile OS
This is all to do with them regulating Apple in the EU & nothing more.

Literally impossible for the EU to have their own search engine, mobile hardware, mobile OS, or mobile app store. Not because the EU couldn’t, a lot of the technology got world DEPENDS on today originated in the EU. And, the citizens are human just like the ones in India, the US, China, and are capable of innovating and creating whatever they need at a world class level. It’s specifically impossible for the EU, as they have set up regulators that are given the task to restrict the success of any tech company based in the region. As a result, any company that came close to being successful across the entire region would be regulated so harshly that they would have to leave the EU to continue to operate.

If the EU wants to join the world in having world class tech companies, they need to look REALLY hard at their regulatory regime. I’m not the first to say this, there are articles out there about this same topic from people in the EU that see what’s going on and are wondering how they can get the innovation to spark in the EU and stay in the EU.

 

[Stuwil]

Literally impossible for the EU to have their own search engine, mobile hardware, mobile OS, or mobile app store. Not because the EU couldn’t, a lot of the technology got world DEPENDS on today originated in the EU. And, the citizens are human just like the ones in India, the US, China, and are capable of innovating and creating whatever they need at a world class level. It’s specifically impossible for the EU, as they have set up regulators that are given the task to restrict the success of any tech company based in the region. As a result, any company that came close to being successful across the entire region would be regulated so harshly that they would have to leave the EU to continue to operate.

If the EU wants to join the world in having world class tech companies, they need to look REALLY hard at their regulatory regime. I’m not the first to say this, there are articles out there about this same topic from people in the EU that see what’s going on and are wondering how they can get the innovation to spark in the EU and stay in the EU.

So according to yourself
Then you’re saying the EU are worse than china because of regulation

 

[Stuwil]

Google was the heavy weight before the smartphone and began to become popular in 2000. A full 7 years before the iPhone. So another of your “facts” is incorrect.

No what I said was as a consequence of google buying android it has helped them massively to solidify themselves as the dominant search engine in technology because they now have over 3.5 billion active users at their disposal.

 

[I7guy]

So according to yourself
Then you’re saying the EU are worse than china because of regulation

According to himself and an EU critic.

 

[I7guy]

According to himself and an EU critic.

Google was already massively popular as a search engine by the year 2005. Everything they did after just made them more popular.

 

[Stuwil]

Because the breadth and depth of data are there and google is not censored.

No because it’s not Apple that’s struggling to compete, it’s the government that’s running interference. Quite a difference.

Because of what you said.

So the masses don’t know any better? I don’t think you are correct on this.

it’s impossible for google to give a better search engine experience than baidu because for you to use baidu you would have to be in china so that in turn makes it a better search engine.

Android is the number one OS in china you do understand that in other countries it’s possible that they prefer other mobiles than Apple because of competition & the technology in these offerings are probably viewed better than apples in china

it’s not the masses don’t know better it’s just people should be offered a choice at the start if they want & if they choose google then so be it

 

[Stuwil]

Google was already massively popular as a search engine by the year 2005. Everything they did after just made them more popular.

Nobody is saying that Google wasn’t a good search engine however buying android & having a user base of over 3.5 billion users then naturally they would become dominant because of android that they own
Hence why they bought it and then give it away for free to then make sure of their dominance
Yeah Google’s market share before android was about 44%

 

[I7guy]

Nobody is saying that Google wasn’t a good search engine however buying android & having a user base of over 3.5 billion users then naturally they would become dominant because of android that they own
Hence why they bought it and then give it away for free to then make sure of their dominance
Yeah Google’s market share before android was about 44%

Google was already dominant when they bought android in 2005. At that time yahoo was nipping at their heels. Their strategy was a good one.

 

[I7guy]

it’s impossible for google to give a better search engine experience than baidu because for you to use baidu you would have to be in china so that in turn makes it a better search engine.

Censoring results to control the population puts the user experience down near the bottom. Plus google has a depth and breadth that bad doesn’t have, unless google was hacked and its data siphoned off.

Android is the number one OS in china you do understand that in other countries it’s possible that they prefer other mobiles than Apple because of competition & the technology in these offerings are probably viewed better than apples in china

It’s true android market share is greater than iOS market share worldwide. What’s your point?

it’s not the masses don’t know better it’s just people should be offered a choice at the start if they want & if they choose google then so be it

People above my pay grade make those decisions. I personally don’t care.