EU to Close Antitrust Investigation into Apple's Browser Choice Screen

[surferfb]

That’s because nobody else was realistically given a chance if the default was always safari on top of google then no wonder it was allowed to become the best

Google was the best search engine far before the iPhone was released, let alone before Google was paying to be the default. I'd argue that now they're not the best search engine, Kagi is. But since Apple is never going to make a paid option the default, out of the search engines that could handle the traffic influx of being the default iOS search engine, Google is clearly miles ahead of the competition. I suspect Google would be the default even if they didn't pay Apple a dime.

That said, this is all a moot point because 1) Google isn't going to be allowed to pay Apple to be the default much longer and 2) search is going to be less and less relevant every year moving forward.

 

[dallastigers]

At the end of the day does the average user even care about this.

Like 3rd party App store regulations it’s less for the EU consumer and more to help other businesses especially EU based companies start to get on equal footing with Apple without building the ecosystem and customer base that Apple has built. Apple has to work to meet needs of these companies. It’s all one sided with no quid pro quo for Apple from companies benefiting from EU regulations.

 

[surferfb]

Like 3rd party App store regulations it’s less for the EU consumer and more to help other businesses especially EU based companies start to get on equal footing with Apple without building the ecosystem and customer base that Apple has built. Apple has to work to meet needs of these companies. It’s all one sided with no quid pro quo for Apple from companies benefiting from EU regulations.

Yep - giving away the results of Apple's hard work to freeloaders.

And the EU wonders why it can't compete with that mindset!

 

[mazz0]

What is turnover? When I Google Apple turnover, this is what I find.
View attachment 2495588

I've never wished MacRumours had 😋 as a reaction before, but I do now.

@mods, get on it.

 

[Stuwil]

Yep - giving away the results of Apple's hard work to freeloaders.

And the EU wonders why it can't compete with that mindset!

Why would the EU want to compete with Apple?

I suppose your in favour in no regulation of any company?

 

[surferfb]

Why would the EU want to compete with Apple?

I suppose your in favour in no regulation of any company?

The EU shouldn't, but EU companies absolutely should. In fact, given the state of the US at the moment, I'd argue it's in everyone's interest that the EU cut the red tape it puts around its tech companies and invest significant funds to help its companies - whether that's building a home-grown competitor to iOS and Android or developing state-of-the-art AI, or whatever. But the EU shouldn't be ceding its future to be dependent on China and the US.

In response to your second question, I am in favor of (what I consider) sensible regulations, for things like health and safety of customers and employees, protections against false advertising, environmental harm, limiting (actual) monopolies, and the like. Demanding that OS providers be prohibited form setting their own browser to be default, and produce an extremely user-unfriendly "browser choice" screen doesn't come anywhere close to the bar required for government intervention. Particularly when the result of the regulation will actually do the opposite of what it intends, and will actually give more market share to the market leader by taking away market share from its strongest competitor.

 

[Morgenland]

I’m wondering why the EU isn’t tackling something completely different:
EVERY major browser (Chrome, Edge ...) is using CHROMIUM as its platform, basically backing Google’s interface monopoly.

The only notable exceptions are Safari and Firefox, who are fighting an uphill battle to make their browsers just as fast while still allowing privacy and e.g. functional ad blockers.

But hey, once Google starts sneaking their "free" modules into all web builder software, the EU might finally wake up... or at least hit the snooze button.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The real takeaway is that browser companies think there’s a competitive playing field.

 

[acorntoy]

I mean, the way iOS is designed, they only barely have an option. For better or worse, on iOS third party browsers are basically just third party bookmark and such syncing services because it's all just Safari Webviews.

The only commercial reason to ship a browser on iOS is to get user data and ad money from search referral deals.

That's what's funny about that choice screen, they all claim to be the fastest browser but they're all using the exact same engine.

Apple is finally allowing full versions of Chrome and Firefox to run on the iPhone

The EU browser wars are about to take off in a big way.

www.theverge.com

Actually in the EU they don't have to use Webkit.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I’m wondering why the EU isn’t tackling something completely different:
EVERY major browser is using Chromium as its platform, basically backing Google’s interface monopoly.

The only notable exceptions are Safari and Firefox, who are fighting an uphill battle to make their browsers just as fast while still allowing functional ad blockers.

But hey, once Google starts sneaking their "free" modules into all web builder software, the EU might finally wake up... or at least hit the snooze button.

No, EU regulators will always see the tiny marketshare of the iPhone as a threat while handing their entire browsing world over to Google. The fact is that the EU has no digital future without non-EU companies owning it, so they’re trying to make the best of a bad situation.

They COULD foster the creation of innovative world class tech companies IN the region, but they know that they’d simply regulate them out of existence once they got successful! LOL “We can’t stand anyone in the world operating in a way that may yield success!”

 

[Unregistered 4U]

such as "obliging a gatekeeper to sell a business or parts of it,"

And then, once that business has been sold off, the EU would regulate that business out of the EU as they always do.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

you.com? Never heard of that one.

So, I looked it up and it’s based in the USA. Better hope they don’t get successful in the EU or they’ll be labeled a gatekeeper! Actually, how many of the browsers on the list are even EU browsers?

 

[Stuwil]

The EU shouldn't, but EU companies absolutely should. In fact, given the state of the US at the moment, I'd argue it's in everyone's interest that the EU cut the red tape it puts around its tech companies and invest significant funds to help its companies - whether that's building a home-grown competitor to iOS and Android or developing state-of-the-art AI, or whatever. But the EU shouldn't be ceding its future to be dependent on China and the US.

In response to your second question, I am in favor of (what I consider) sensible regulations, for things like health and safety of customers and employees, protections against false advertising, environmental harm, limiting (actual) monopolies, and the like. Demanding that OS providers be prohibited form setting their own browser to be default, and produce an extremely user-unfriendly "browser choice" screen doesn't come anywhere close to the bar required for government intervention. Particularly when the result of the regulation will actually do the opposite of what it intends, which is to give more market share to the market leader.

News flash the world depends on china & Asia for certain things.

I’m assuming you don’t think the mobile operating system is a monopoly because you have a choice between iOS & android?

so you don’t think people should be given a choice in regards to browser choice?

 

[Morgenland]

No, EU regulators will always see the tiny marketshare of the iPhone as a threat while handing their entire browsing world over to Google. The fact is that the EU has no digital future without non-EU companies owning it, so they’re trying to make the best of a bad situation.

They COULD foster the creation of innovative world class tech companies IN the region, but they know that they’d simply regulate them out of existence once they got successful! LOL “We can’t stand anyone in the world operating in a way that may yield success!”

That was a rather inappropriate and incoherent statement.

I live in Europe and am quite familiar with the situation. But you describe it in the same undifferentiated way that people talk about it at the regulars' table (with too much beer) and therefore come to funny conclusions.

Your fridge is waiting

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Instead of these stupid legislation (GDPR, DMA and DSA) the EU should incentivise Euorpean companies to make alternatives to external infrastructure, software and hardware. But they don't, instead they put fines on companies with the only fault that they want to protect their investments.

They would first need to overhaul their regulatory regime. At this point incentivizing European companies to make alternatives would just lead to a conveyor belt of companies that get funded, grow, over-regulated, leave to find massive success elsewhere.

 

[Stuwil]

They would first need to overhaul their regulatory regime. At this point incentivizing European companies to make alternatives would just lead to a conveyor belt of companies that get funded, grow, over-regulated, leave to find massive success elsewhere.

It doesn’t matter if a start up company developed an OS it wouldn’t be able to compete with google & Apple regardless

The only company that can realistically compete with them 2 companies is a certain company in Asia & they are restricted in the west to be able to compete

 

[surferfb]

News flash the world depends on china & Asia for certain things.

Well aware. I think it would be in everyone's interest that we reduce our dependence on China, and in the EU's interest in particular to try to reduce dependence on the US. And I'm saying this as an American.

I’m assuming you don’t think the mobile operating system is a monopoly because you have a choice between iOS & android?

It is definitely not a monopoly. A duopoly, sure. I'll add that if Android was as closed down as Apple is, I'd feel differently about the necessity of government regulations to address competition.

so you don’t think people should be given a choice in regards to browser choice?

I don't think the government should make that determination - it should be up to the companies providing the OS. If they want to offer alternatives, great, if not, that's a decision that competitors can and should exploit. If every major OS prohibited alternative browsers, then government intervention might be warranted. And I certainly don't think that "browser choice screens" are a good idea.

I think the status quo for Apple was working fine, where those who wanted to use a different default browser had that ability, and those who didn't care had a default that is safe, secure, and private (particularly compared to the competition). The result of this regulation is that many "normal" users (the type who don't post on tech enthusiast forums like MacRumors) end up either 1) confused with where Safari went and why there's a different app 2) electing to use Chrome because it's the browser they've heard of - further exposing their information to third parties who want to sell them things.

Completely anecdotal but I just asked my mother-in-law if she knew the name of Apple's browser. She recognized the icon but didn't know the name. I suspect she'd choose Chrome if presented with a browser choice screen and didn't see the Safari icon. I also suspect she is not alone. So I strongly suspect what the EU has done here is actually the opposite of what they intended - further strengthening the market leader - and leading more of their citizens to give away their private information to an advertising broker.

 

[Morgenland]

They would first need to overhaul their regulatory regime. At this point incentivizing European companies to make alternatives would just lead to a conveyor belt of companies that get funded, grow, over-regulated, leave to find massive success elsewhere.

If you knew what difficulties Firefox is in *and why*, you would be able to write more intelligently.

 

[davide_eu]

I wonder what the EU will fine Apple for next ?

View attachment 2495545

Need more money is from a$$le, when they try every trick to squeeze more money from their userbase...

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I live in Europe and am quite familiar with the situation. But you describe it in the same undifferentiated way that people talk about it at the regulars' table (with too much beer) and therefore come to the wrong simple conclusions.

You call it undifferentiated, I call it reality. Because, right now for example, the EU is wholly dependent on non-EU companies for mobile hardware and OS’s. There’s nothing either currently being done or in the works to substantially REDUCE the EU’s dependence on non-EU companies. In fact, the changes that have been made solidifies Google’s and Apple’s influence in the region by making it non-beneficial for any innovative EU company to break into the market. Because, were they to attain success, then the DMA would force them to make their new wildly successful product work with Apple and Google’s, thus removing that company’s competitive edge over that competition.

Being from a region that HAS fostered innovation while allowing those companies to continue to operate in the region, I’m familiar with the tools that are available to aid companies in becoming successful. The EU is familiar with some of those tools as well, but appear to only apply them in the aviation sector.

 

[Stuwil]

Well aware. I think it would be in everyone's interest that we reduce our dependence on China, and in the EU's interest in particular to try to reduce dependence on the US. And I'm saying this as an American.


It is definitely not a monopoly. A duopoly, sure. I'll add that if Android was as closed down as Apple is, I'd feel differently about the necessity of government regulations to address competition.


I don't think the government should make that determination - it should be up to the companies providing the OS. If they want to offer alternatives, great, if not, that's a decision that competitors can and should exploit. If every major OS prohibited alternative browsers, then government intervention might be warranted. And I certainly don't think that "browser choice screens" are a good idea.

I think the status quo for Apple was working fine, where those who wanted to use a different default browser had that ability, and those who didn't care stuck with the default, that is safe, secure, and private (particularly compared to the competition). The result of this regulation is that many "normal" users (the type who don't post on tech enthusiast forums like MacRumors) end up either 1) confused with where Safari went and why there's a different app 2) electing to use Chrome because it's the browser they've heard of.

Completely anecdotal but I just asked my mother-in-law if she knew the name of Apple's browser. She recognized the icon but didn't know the name. I suspect she'd choose Chrome if presented with a browser choice screen and didn't see the Safari icon. I also suspect she is not alone. So I strongly suspect what the EU has done here is actually the opposite of what they intended - further strengthening the market leader.

Yes but when most people get an iPhone for the first time they generally leave the default option on & never bother to change it
Because that is what most people do so that in turn has given google an advantage over the competition for over a decade.

Right but one would assume that your of the opinion that people have a choice between Apple & android
So if you pick Apple then you accept everything that’s goes with it or go to android right.

However the iPhone is viewed as a stand alone device

 

[thefrost]

The EU has been really going after Apple haven't they?

 

[surferfb]

Yes but when most people get an iPhone for the first time they generally leave the default option on & never bother to change it
Because that is what most people do so that in turn has given google an advantage over the competition for over a decade.

Yes, and? I don't see any problem with that. Apple doesn't have a monopoly. Google does have a search monopoly, which is why they're being regulated, and for example, won't be able to pay Apple to be the default search anymore. However, I still am strongly of the opinion that Google would be the default even if they didn't pay Apple, because until recently they were far and away the best search engine (and are still are far and away the best free search engine).

Right but one would assume that your of the opinion that people have a choice between Apple & android
So if you pick Apple then you accept everything that’s goes with it or go to android right.

Yes - you can complain to Apple that they don't offer a feature, but it should be Apple's decision whether or not they do barring a really good reason (again, health, safety, environmental concerns, etc.). In my opinion "the OS with 30% market share in the EU dares to set its browser as default" doesn't come anywhere close to being "a really good reason", particularly when the resulting regulation actually makes its less-private, massively market leading competitor stronger.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

If you knew what difficulties Firefox is in *and why*, you would be able to write more intelligently.

I believe the difficulties of a donation based organization attempting to fund the development of a browser engine in a way that keeps up with well funded entities is fairly clear, starting with the “donation based” business developing software that is given away. Changing ANY of those variables would most certainly lead to fewer difficulties.

 

[avz]

Of course they’re going to enact legislation that favour EU citizens.

I am sure they do.