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Yes, and? I don't see any problem with that. Apple doesn't have a monopoly. Google does have a search monopoly, which is why they're being regulated, and for example, won't be able to pay Apple to be the default search anymore. However, I still am strongly of the opinion that Google would be the default even if they didn't pay Apple, because until recently they were far and away the best search engine (and are still are far and away the best free search engine).


Yes - you can complain to Apple that they don't offer a feature, but it should be Apple's decision whether or not they do barring a really good reason (again, health, safety, environmental concerns, etc.). In my opinion "the OS with 30% market share in the EU dares to set its browser as default" doesn't come anywhere close to being "a really good reason", particularly when the resulting regulation actually makes its less-private, massively market leading competitor stronger.
See your doing it again by mentioning the 30% market share

The iphone is getting viewed as a standalone device so when the EU is regulating it that’s what it is doing treating it the way Apple does by not even mentioning the competition

As I believe you are an American then ultimately this isn’t going to affect you because these changes are only happening inside the EU
 
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See your doing it again by mentioning the 30% market share

The iphone is getting viewed as a standalone device so when the EU is regulating it that’s what it is doing treating it the way Apple does by not even mentioning the competition
The device being "standalone" has nothing to do with whether or not the regulation applies. It is determined by whether the platform is a "gatekeeper". Which is why Apple can continue to ship MacOS without a browser choice screen because MacOS isn't considered a gatekeeper under the DMA. I think we can all agree that a Mac is a standalone device.

Same deal with Samsung, they would be perfectly within their rights to only offer a Samsung browser on their phones, as Samsung is not considered a gatekeeper in the EU. And that law was precision written to target big American tech companies while avoiding hitting others.

As I believe you are an American then ultimately this isn’t going to affect you because these changes are only happening inside the EU
Yes and no. I'm in the process of obtaining citizenship in an EU country. But you're correct that it mostly doesn't impact me, as I'm not planning to move to the EU.
 
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The device being "standalone" has nothing to do with whether or not the regulation applies. It is determined by whether the platform is a "gatekeeper". Which is why Apple can continue to ship MacOS without a browser choice screen because MacOS isn't considered a gatekeeper under the DMA. I think we can all agree that a Mac is a standalone device.

Same deal with Samsung, they would be perfectly within their rights to only offer a Samsung browser on their phones, as Samsung is not considered a gatekeeper in the EU. And that law was precision written to target big American tech companies while avoiding hitting others.


Yes and no. I'm in the process of obtaining citizenship in an EU country. But you're correct that it mostly doesn't impact me, as I'm not planning to move to the EU.
Yes but the EU are looking at the iPhone as a standalone device
So they can’t pull that nonsense see we aren’t a monopoly as we have competition in android so they then get around every business decision they make.

However if they treat iOS as a standalone product then it’s easier to justify the regulation that they are putting on Apple

Because on one hand Apple pretends that android doesn’t exist when it comes to most things.

Yet when they are faced with regulations suddenly android exists
 
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only if the browser they chose went into issues, they would blame Apple
It’s not about existing customers
It’s about new customers going forward so they have a choice at the start rather than a predetermined option.
Now on one hand most people will either pick chrome or safari however let’s say for example a customer picks another option & they a pleasantly surprised by that
Then they would tell other people who would then potentially switch & that’s the point of it
 
That’s because nobody else was realistically given a chance if the default was always safari on top of google then no wonder it was allowed to become the best
Google search engine existed long before the iPhone or Android.
 
Google search engine existed long before the iPhone or Android.
Yes that’s true but over time because it’s been the default option on both platforms it’s allowed to get consistently better because most consumers haven’t bothered to change it & went with the default option anyway
Like myself & others when they first got the iPhone they just left the default engine as is because most people don’t bother changing it & just go with it.
 
You call it undifferentiated, I call it reality. Because, right now for example, the EU is wholly dependent on non-EU companies for mobile hardware and OS’s. There’s nothing either currently being done or in the works to substantially REDUCE the EU’s dependence on non-EU companies. In fact, the changes that have been made solidifies Google’s and Apple’s influence in the region by making it non-beneficial for any innovative EU company to break into the market. Because, were they to attain success, then the DMA would force them to make their new wildly successful product work with Apple and Google’s, thus removing that company’s competitive edge over that competition.

Being from a region that HAS fostered innovation while allowing those companies to continue to operate in the region, I’m familiar with the tools that are available to aid companies in becoming successful. The EU is familiar with some of those tools as well, but appear to only apply them in the aviation sector.
Right but every western country is relying on Asia for most of the hardware including America
In regards to mobile OS’s then every continent apart from Asia relies on just 2 companies for their mobile OS
So it’s not just a European problem

The dma only exists because there are only 2 mobile OS’s that’s why but if there was a 3rd option with a substantial customer base that exists in Asia & not restricted then there would be no dma because then there would be 3 big options to choose from
 
The dma only exists because there are only 2 mobile OS’s that’s why but if there was a 3rd option with a substantial customer base that exists in Asia & not restricted then there would be no dma because then there would be 3 big options to choose from
I don’t think that’s accurate. As currently written, the DMA would still apply to Apple if Android was 3 companies each with 25% market share (in fact, it would apply to all 4 mobile OSes if there the case). DMA’s gatekeeper status is based on number of users, (unless you’re iPadOS - then it applies just because the EU says so) and revenue, not number of market participants.

Unless you’re arguing the DMA wouldn’t have been passed in the first place if there were four market participants. But if that was the case you think they would have written the legislation differently, because as it stands now if a third market participant arises it will also be subject to the DMA.
 
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Yes, and? I don't see any problem with that. Apple doesn't have a monopoly. Google does have a search monopoly, which is why they're being regulated, and for example, won't be able to pay Apple to be the default search anymore. However, I still am strongly of the opinion that Google would be the default even if they didn't pay Apple, because until recently they were far and away the best search engine (and are still are far and away the best free search engine).


Yes - you can complain to Apple that they don't offer a feature, but it should be Apple's decision whether or not they do barring a really good reason (again, health, safety, environmental concerns, etc.). In my opinion "the OS with 30% market share in the EU dares to set its browser as default" doesn't come anywhere close to being "a really good reason", particularly when the resulting regulation actually makes its less-private, massively market leading competitor stronger.
It wasn't the EU that stopped Google from paying apple to be the default iOS search engine. It was the US courts.
 
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I don’t think that’s accurate. As currently written, the DMA would still apply to Apple if Android was 3 companies each with 25% market share (in fact, it would apply to all 4 mobile OSes if there the case). DMA’s gatekeeper status is based on number of users, (unless you’re iPadOS - then it applies just because the EU says so) and revenue, not number of market participants.

Unless you’re arguing the DMA wouldn’t have been passed in the first place if there were four market participants. But if that was the case you think they would have written the legislation differently, because as it stands now if a third market participant arises it will also be subject to the DMA.
The third company doesn’t use android anymore & has about 1 billion active users in Asia
If they were not restricted by the west it would ultimately make a difference because then there would be 3 competitors too choose from instead of just 2
 
The third company doesn’t use android anymore & has about 1 billion active users in Asia
If they were not restricted by the west it would ultimately make a difference because then there would be 3 competitors too choose from instead of just 2
Yes, and under the DMA, they’d get regulated just the same as Android and iOS, have to make their phones work with Apple’s watches (assuming they make watches of their own), not be able to set their browser as the default, etc.
 
That’s a bit like here. iPadOS is exactly like iOS, unless it’s a discussion about the EU, then suddenly it’s different.
I mean, the EU admitted it was a different platform, and that it didn’t have the required number of users for the law to apply, but they were having it apply anyway. I understand “the letter of the law” doesn’t apply in the EU - but that seems particularly egregious to me.

Quote from Vestager, emphasis mine
Our market investigation showed that despite not meeting the thresholds, iPadOS constitutes an important gateway on which many companies rely to reach their customers.

What’s the point of having thresholds written into the law if you can just ignore them if you feel like it?
 
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Yes, and under the DMA, they’d get regulated just the same as Android and iOS, have to make their phones work with Apple’s watches (assuming they make watches of their own), not be able to set their browser as the default, etc.
So you don’t know who the company is?

There would be no DMA in the first place because there would be 3 companies aiming for customers not just 2 so that would make a difference.

It would also make a difference because it would split the two companies so there would be less need for as much regulation because then there would be 3 choices not just 2
 
So you don’t know who the company is?
I’m assuming you’re referring to Huawei, but I’m honestly not familiar with their product offerings because they’re not an option in the US and I wouldn’t use them even if they were.

There would be no DMA in the first place because there would be 3 companies aiming for customers not just 2 so that would make a difference.

It would also make a difference because it would split the two companies so there would be less need for as much regulation because then there would be 3 choices not just 2
Let’s just say I disagree with the idea that the EU would not want to regulate this space if there were three main players instead of two (unless one of those players was European, perhaps).
 
I’m assuming you’re referring to Huawei, but I’m honestly not familiar with their product offerings because they’re not an option in the US and I wouldn’t use them even if they were.


Let’s just say I disagree with the idea that the EU would not want to regulate this space if there were three main players instead of two (unless one of those players was European, perhaps).
As I have said previously
The reason Apple are getting regulated is because iOS is getting treated as a standalone product and they are looking at it this way because then it justifies the regulation.
However if said company wasn’t restricted in the west then it would be harder to justify the regulation that’s getting imposed because there would be more choice
 
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