European Commission Joins Investigation of Apple's Flash Exclusion Policies

lets be real...please...

Guys, first of all, I'm an apple fanboy of 20 something years and I am so tired of this debate and have become so irritated with Apple for making us have it.

Secondly, just because Steve has convinced you that Flash is no good doesn't mean you have to agree....you can disagree on "some" issues and still fervently support Apple. Remember the old "think different" campaign....I encourage you to try.

Third, like I mentioned before, I have used mac exclusively for 20 some years...and have many friends who use mac....I'm the mac-go-to-guy to all my friends when they have problems. If you think Flash is causing your computer to crash all of that time then you probably have something wrong with your computer...no because you have Flash on it. I can literally go months without my mac EVER crashing and I do HEAVY web development and graphics...and yes, I also use Flash professional sometimes....and yes, also do a lot with HTML5. I spend, on average, 8 plus hours a day on my mac and because I can certainly endorse apple and say that my computer rarely...I mean rarely EVER crashes.

Fourth, for those who say they don't miss Flash on their iphone is because the've NEVER had flash on their iphone!....so basically, you don't know what you are missing...trust me, it's more than ads. Bottom line, you cannot access all of the web from the iphone or ipad...like a HUGE significant percent of it. And all those great things you hear about HTML5 "eventually" doing, well...Flash does those NOW...like for the past 5 years before HTML5 was even compatible with our browsers. Flash does the same thing HTML5 advertises and more....seriously...the same cool effects and the same crap ads you find so annoying.

As for who wins in two years...HTML5 or FLASH...who cares?!!!??? I could care so little if Flash is gone in 2 years and everything is a great version of HTML5! All I know is that I want my "current" smartphone to show me the internet AS IT IS NOW....not 2 years from now. Flash is far from being gone because it's a "technical" issue that most people here don't even understand because they want so badly for Steve to be right on this. People, no one is that infallible which is why the vast majority out there are still using Flash for video and advertising and to create unique websites in which the content is protected.

Steve is brilliant but out of touch and uninformed on this issue...they jumped the gun way too soon. He only gave Android a major ally and people like me a reason to switch. I use macs for 100% of my daily tech life but I have been waiting for so long for a smartphone that can view the web entirely and iphone led in this above all smartphone. But guess what, now they are in 2nd place. I have Android 2.2 and it's a better browser hands down...seriously...and I'm not just saying this...IT IS, IN FACT, A BETTER BROWSER. I can't fathom how you could argue differently. Instead of gray boxes it gives me any and all Flash I want....OR, I can even turn flash off! You see, I have a choice. The iphone does and will never give you a choice. They want you to "wait" until the internet changes...only then, can you view the internet in it's entirety. Well, good luck with that...I'll have a new phone and contract by then. I've used and owned both and have a HUGE bias for Apple so you should trust me that I'm not just making this up. What motive would I have in making crap up like most who post on these forums???

Don't get me wrong, I want apple to win...but I'm not going to do so, by convincing myself that the earth is flat. Odd are, flash will be around for years and years. If Flash isn't there next year when I buy a new phone, I'll switch back...simple as that. But for the time being, I'm loving not having to avoid certain websites or content...I can see all of the web and and it doesn't crash my phone...sorry to bring you bad news...I know you hoped differently.

Wrote this quickly so pardon the grammar...
 
Tyre said:
No no, sir. AOL failed because a faster and more attractive ISP paradigm emerged, one specifically sexy for American users. People in the US hate tiered plans, pay-per-use, or feelin like they are on the clock. That is why AOL failed. Just because they were very closed like Apple does not mean both will fail.

And if you've ever looked at the original Apple success story, the iPod, you may notice that people are attracted to Apple for the very reason that they are closed, and just do their job.

That is why Apple banned Flash- they know we want a product that just works, so they give it to us. If you want to mess around with Flash, you are more than willing to buy another phone. You know what you're getting with your iProduct: better battery life, no Flash.
Click to expand...


Don't confuse Full Of with facts.
 
hwhalers said:
Number portability was a service issue, it didn't involve mandating technology. Forcing adoption of standards or technology (ala the Broadcast Flag) is not in the same league, and doesn't serve consumers.



If you like sloppy MIDI, maybe. :p
Click to expand...

MIDI fluctuation in Logic 7 and 8 was out of control. Thats why I ended up just spending the money on getting a Digi003 with Protools.


vanka74 said:
Guys, first of all, I'm an apple fanboy of 20 something years and I am so tired of this debate and have become so irritated with Apple for making us have it.

Secondly, just because Steve has convinced you that Flash is no good doesn't mean you have to agree....you can disagree on "some" issues and still fervently support Apple. Remember the old "think different" campaign....I encourage you to try.

Third, like I mentioned before, I have used mac exclusively for 20 some years...and have many friends who use mac....I'm the mac-go-to-guy to all my friends when they have problems. If you think Flash is causing your computer to crash all of that time then you probably have something wrong with your computer...no because you have Flash on it. I can literally go months without my mac EVER crashing and I do HEAVY web development and graphics...and yes, I also use Flash professional sometimes....and yes, also do a lot with HTML5. I spend, on average, 8 plus hours a day on my mac and because I can certainly endorse apple and say that my computer rarely...I mean rarely EVER crashes.

Fourth, for those who say they don't miss Flash on their iphone is because the've NEVER had flash on their iphone!....so basically, you don't know what you are missing...trust me, it's more than ads. Bottom line, you cannot access all of the web from the iphone or ipad...like a HUGE significant percent of it. And all those great things you hear about HTML5 "eventually" doing, well...Flash does those NOW...like for the past 5 years before HTML5 was even compatible with our browsers. Flash does the same thing HTML5 advertises and more....seriously...the same cool effects and the same crap ads you find so annoying.

As for who wins in two years...HTML5 or FLASH...who cares?!!!??? I could care so little if Flash is gone in 2 years and everything is a great version of HTML5! All I know is that I want my "current" smartphone to show me the internet AS IT IS NOW....not 2 years from now. Flash is far from being gone because it's a "technical" issue that most people here don't even understand because they want so badly for Steve to be right on this. People, no one is that infallible which is why the vast majority out there are still using Flash for video and advertising and to create unique websites in which the content is protected.

Steve is brilliant but out of touch and uninformed on this issue...they jumped the gun way too soon. He only gave Android a major ally and people like me a reason to switch. I use macs for 100% of my daily tech life but I have been waiting for so long for a smartphone that can view the web entirely and iphone led in this above all smartphone. But guess what, now they are in 2nd place. I have Android 2.2 and it's a better browser hands down...seriously...and I'm not just saying this...IT IS, IN FACT, A BETTER BROWSER. I can't fathom how you could argue differently. Instead of gray boxes it gives me any and all Flash I want....OR, I can even turn flash off! You see, I have a choice. The iphone does and will never give you a choice. They want you to "wait" until the internet changes...only then, can you view the internet in it's entirety. Well, good luck with that...I'll have a new phone and contract by then. I've used and owned both and have a HUGE bias for Apple so you should trust me that I'm not just making this up. What motive would I have in making crap up like most who post on these forums???

Don't get me wrong, I want apple to win...but I'm not going to do so, by convincing myself that the earth is flat. Odd are, flash will be around for years and years. If Flash isn't there next year when I buy a new phone, I'll switch back...simple as that. But for the time being, I'm loving not having to avoid certain websites or content...I can see all of the web and and it doesn't crash my phone...sorry to bring you bad news...I know you hoped differently.

Wrote this quickly so pardon the grammar...
Click to expand...

You're obviously a troll and a paid employee of NokiadroidMicroetcsoft.

Seriously I agree. I like Steve I just don't always agree with him.
 
qbert said:
Good. Apple is wrong to ban one of the most widely used and accepted technology on the web TODAY.

If you don't like Flash, you can uninstall it. But why not have the freedom to choose?!

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You can choose... Go with a dell, or d Droid phone... Just don't be dumb about it. It's a flawed and outdated technology. Adobe sucks.
 
I knew we had some self-proclaimed experts here, but I didn't know we also had psychics. How can people be badmouthing an investigation without knowing exactly what the subject matter is or what its outcomes are?

Ignorance. And funnily enough, some Europeans here are just as much to blame as the Americans this time. Blissfully ignorant, media-slurping sheep.
 
That argument might hold up in the U.S. but in the EU there are more stringent rules about what companies can and cannot do. Apple doesn't have to put Flash into IOS itself but actively preventing another party from doing so might be viewed by the EU as anti-competitive.

If they do then Apple has a choice. Either play by EU rules and comply with whatever the EU may or may not decide or stop selling their products inside the EU borders. That's Apples choice.

This may come to nothing or it may be something big for Apple. We'll all wait and see.

Žalgiris said:
It's their garden and Apple can decide which trees should grow there.
Click to expand...
 
Why not allow Flash and give consumers the option to disable, they could even ship the devices with it disabled letting everybody who wants to use it do so.

I see nothing wrong with that approach. It keeps stability if that is the overriding concern for most users allowing the power users the capability to accept some instability for functionality.
 
scriptx said:
Why not allow Flash and give consumers the option to disable, they could even ship the devices with it disabled letting everybody who wants to use it do so.
Click to expand...

This is apple we are talking about, the only choice you get is to buy an apple product or not. You don't get a choice on what you are allowed to run on it or extras like ably-ray drive.
 
Puddinman said:
To all those who are happy about these investigations: Kindly make a cogent argument as to how Apple's exclusion of Flash-based content from iOS is anti-competitive.

Oh, that's right, you can't because it's not anti-competitive. For proof of that, just look at Blackberry OS, Android OS and WebOS. Apple is not creating any barriers to entry for these companies; on the contrary, they are giving them an opportunity. If they can implement Flash, then great -who needs Apple, right?
Click to expand...
By the same token you could argue that Microsoft never did anything anti-competitive with the Windows platform, all you have to do is go out and buy a different platform.

You're mistakenly identifying the smartphone market as the only level where competition happens, that's not what this is about at all. It's about competition on each OS platform. The platform itself is considered an arena for competition. Why else do you think MS gets in trouble over things like initially refusing to give Symantec and the other antivirus software companies the Vista kernel source code? They're not even allowed to have a monopoly on the Windows platform's basic security. In the EU they had to ship Win7 without the Media Player, the mail client and all those "Live" platform applications, and they had to add a ballot screen for web browser choice. Apple has been trying to wrestle third parties off their platform for years, and they've been getting away with it due to the small market share, but as their market share grows, the EC and other watchdog authorities around the world will put more and more pressure on Apple to tear down the walls around the garden.
 
If I wanted flash ads on my phone, I would have bought a different phone.

The majority of flash use is for advertisements and crappy flash games that "REQUIRE" a physical keyboard.

I could install flash on my jailbroken devices if I really wanted to but I have no interest whatsoever. The sooner web developer are weened off flash, the better.

Which government agency is going to compensate me for bandwidth costs and wear and tear on the battery of my device for these flash ads if they force Apple to include flash?

If I want to code for windows mobile platforms, I realistically have to use windows and run Visual Studio or at least use their SDK so I don't see the problem with having to use OS X and the official iOS SDK in XCode.
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
So you'd use Logic over all the Digi products because of Flash?
Click to expand...
Um, no. It was a continuation of my previous post where I gave a real-world example of the problem with not having Flash support.

Anti-flash pundits argue that Flash will disappear from sites once the owners realize that Apple customers take their money elsewhere. As I illustrated, there really isn't any Flash-free "elsewhere" to go if you're on the market for music software and hardware (I could've used games or fashion as examples too).

All those audio companies use Flash extensively for all their product presentations, so the Flash boycott would result in the customer not being able to check out the market for music software and hardware control surfaces. I guess one could buy a mouse for input, but seeing as the new Logitech site is one giant Flash extravaganza, that's gonna be difficult too.
 
I really wonder if all of the people on this board crying foul said the same thing when the EU investigated Microsoft over the bundling of IE with their OS?

Apple not allowing Flash is no different than if Microsoft prevented Safari or iTunes from being installed on Windows computers.
 
marksman said:
Let euros have flash on their own nokia devices.

Leave Apple alone.
Click to expand...

If you associate "euros" with Nokia, you could associate 'amis' with Microsoft as that is software company with higher market share. Or even better, you should just stop matching people and continents or supranational organisations with software and corporations.

If Apple wants to be left alone, Apple should stay in the US or at least out of the European Union. As a European I'm not apologetic that there is an investigation about a corporation's market practices.
 
Anuba said:
Um, no. It was a continuation of my previous post where I gave a real-world example of the problem with not having Flash support.

Anti-flash pundits argue that Flash will disappear from sites once the owners realize that Apple customers take their money elsewhere. As I illustrated, there really isn't any Flash-free "elsewhere" to go if you're on the market for music software and hardware (I could've used games or fashion as examples too).

All those audio companies use Flash extensively for all their product presentations, so the Flash boycott would result in the customer not being able to check out the market for music software and hardware control surfaces. I guess one could buy a mouse for input, but seeing as the new Logitech site is one giant Flash extravaganza, that's gonna be difficult too.
Click to expand...

Steves best friend Bonor's site has flash too.

www.u2.com
 
tylersdad said:
I really wonder if all of the people on this board crying foul said the same thing when the EU investigated Microsoft over the bundling of IE with their OS?

Apple not allowing Flash is no different than if Microsoft prevented Safari or iTunes from being installed on Windows computers.
Click to expand...

Microsoft's problem was that they have a dominant market share. iPhone is big but nowhere near a 'dominant position'

Adobe whines, authorities do their job of investigating but they will find nothing illegal.
 
Flash isn't available for 99% of mobile devices, and there is a reason!
It sucks even on desktop computer, rollover menus will not work on touch devices.
Flash is only a crap, and people will install it if available then they will insult apple for slow performance or battery drain...
 
Finally, it was bound to happen! I hope Apple is shaking a little, hehe.

Apple needs to open up a little or they will get an anti-trust case just like Microsoft did when they monopolized the browser-business with Internet Explorer - a thing that plagues web developers A LOT today, but finally now that other browsers like safari, firefox and chrome are winning marketshare (partly because the user can now choose what browser they want to use when installing windows), Microsoft can't keep on using their own retarded DOM's that is way behind or different from the w3c spec.

I am a firm believer that choice should be in the hands of the customer, not the company - but hey, i'm from Europe ;)
 
tylersdad said:
I really wonder if all of the people on this board crying foul said the same thing when the EU investigated Microsoft over the bundling of IE with their OS?

Apple not allowing Flash is no different than if Microsoft prevented Safari or iTunes from being installed on Windows computers.
Click to expand...
Uh... no. Flash is not an app. It is a framework. It would be more like MSFT blocking Java from being installed on windows for security reasons.

Do you expect Apple or anybody to support every other third party library out there in the base iOS install? Apple cannot open it up to allow the end user to install additional plugins or frameworks because that would open up a major security hole or it would require a complicated UI with logins and user authentication.

Nobody expects Apple to ship iOS with .NET anymore than they expect MSFT to ship windows or windows mobile with the Cocoa Framework so I don't understand why anyone is trying to force Apple to ship flash on iOS when it's not ready for prime time.

Apple has repeatedly stated that they will consider flash when it is ready to ship and not before.

@eskalation.dk: Listen fanboy, you don't have a clue about software development or the problems with having to depend on third party libraries for your code. I'm also from Europe but I actually work in the software industry as a developer.
 
Wow this is retarted u have the right to ban anyone or thing from ur os. U don't have to develop for them if u don't like it take it somewhere else. It's like saying the icecream store dosent have chocolate so yr guna sue them. WTF
 
leroypants said:
This is apple we are talking about, the only choice you get is to buy an apple product or not. You don't get a choice on what you are allowed to run on it or extras like ably-ray drive.
Click to expand...

Which is starting to prompt me to consider alternatives. I already (for the first time) last week jail broke my phone to get around frustrating user interface issues. I have had to accept stability issues, but they are well worth it.

I think they'll see some user retention issues if they keep things up. I couldn't imagine an auto company that tells me I cannot put different rims on the car because it duplicates functionality already provided by the car. I'd hate to be stuck with those ugly 17s forever...
 
aristotle said:
...
If I want to code for windows mobile platforms, I realistically have to use windows and run Visual Studio or at least use their SDK so I don't see the problem with having to use OS X and the official iOS SDK in XCode.
Click to expand...

But MS doesn't require the use of an SDK or ban you from accessing OS level APIs. You can LoadLibrary and call into a DLL offset. They even provide the capability to do so in Windows.
 
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