European Commission Joins Investigation of Apple's Flash Exclusion Policies

[gnasher729]

These government agencies are waaaaay overstepping their bounds. They only have grounds to act in a couple of major ways. 1)Anti-competitive practices and 2)Safety issues. Apple is not violating either one.

Well, they are _investigating_. With the possible outcomes being "Apple didn't do anything wrong", "Apple is anti-competitive" or anything in between. If someone complains loud enough (probably Adobe because it affects them directly, and Microsoft just to create the appearance that they are not the only wrong-doers), then they have to investigate. Doesn't mean they find anything wrong.

 

[bawbag]

H.264 is not open source.

Sorry - open 'standard'

Actually i should just retract that original comment example because the more i read about H264, the more it seems I named the wrong compression standard

 

[knightlie]

Some of us would love to have Flash support on our idevices. What's wrong with having a choice? It's not like you won't have the ability to turn it off if you don't like it. Why should the haters decide if we can have flash support or not? Because the Steve said Flash is bad?

No, because Flash makes Steve's products look bad. Flash is a piece of junk on OS X and by all accounts is on iOS too. If you need Flash, choose a platform that supports it and which Adobe is competent enough to develop on. That's not iOS.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

What you appear to be arguing for is a universal DRM system, which is a widely agreeable idea. Because you can't seriously believe that the content providers in the US are going to agree to distribute things without DRM. Recent history would demonstrate this. Apple could argue that they can't be compelled to license their system freely, because their agreements with content providers are limited in scope. In that case, either Apple would be forced to open their video system, which would at that point be devoid of content anyone wanted to buy, or the Apple video DRM system would become a de facto standard, something I doubt you'd appreciate. The content providers are under no obligation to license their media digitally if they don't like the terms, and they're quite picky on the terms.

Just because you want something doesn't mean anyone is obliged to listen, let alone provide it.

Honestly I would be fine with a Universal DRM. That honestly would be the best deal we could hope for.

They only have a lock because they spent years developing iTunes. It's a free market... Now Google and others need to go develop their own libraries and access like iTunes. Go cut deals and build up the content.

You do know that you can buy content from other places besides iTunes? Amazon for one?

You just do not get it. It one thing to develop the network but it is another to use that power to keep others from entering the market.
You also did not understand the agrument. I never said that iTunes was the biggest player right now. I was just pointing out if it goes like the iTMS apple will reach a point were they would be massively abusing their market power to keep others out of the market.

Apple virtual integration is where the problem really lies. They make it impossible for anyone who does not have billions to burn just to enter 2 markets at one time.

 

[KindredMAC]

Apple is not about freedom or choice, just look at how many people want a blu-ray drive but are not even given the option to have one.

Blu-ray is not a good example.

I can go out and buy either an internal or external BDR drive from OWC.

Sure I need to have Toast in order for the system to recognize it and it won't play a BDR movie, but I can still have a BDR work with my system for back ups or burning HD movies until the patch does come out in order to do all of that natively...

 

[hwhalers]

Apple virtual integration is where the problem really lies. They make it impossible for anyone who does not have billions to burn just to enter 2 markets at one time.

Tell that to Google, who's shoveled quite a few billion into the fire to buy their way into the mobile sphere.

Sorry - open 'standard'

Indeed. There are no open source video codecs that are modern .

 

[Anuba]

I frickin hate the Flash ads out there. When its one of those ones that float above the text I am reading I close the site and find another to read a similar article on. I think its rude to do that to your readers. I already see the ads on a site, such as the "zipcar" ad up top as I write this.

There will always be animated ads. If not in Flash, then in HTML5. If you're on a quest for an ad-free internet, you'd probably have better luck trying to catch the rainbow.

Flash is a staple of the internet experience. Videos and ads are two aspects but it's also a crucial part of many sites. "Yeah well if they have Flash content, I'll just go elsewhere, ha!"

You know, let's say you're a computer-based musician/audio dude and you want to take your daily tour of the internet to see what all the companies are up to.

(Might wanna turn on Click2Flash for this one):

www.akaipro.com
Big Flash hole in the middle. Fine, I'll take my money elsewhere then. Let's see...

www.m-audio.com
Rats. Another big Flash hole in the middle. I'm telling the mother company, bet they won't like this Flash nonsense. They'll get a major reprimand I believe. Hello Avid here I come...

www.avid.com
Huh?? Another giant Flash hole? Oh well, I bet Korg wants my money.

www.korg.com
Gigantic, monstrous Flash hole. What the...? That's it, I'm heading over to Novation.

www.novationmusic.com
Oh COME ON. How about Yamaha? Good old conservative Yamaha, they'll have HTML for me...

www.yamahasynth.com
What? Another gaping Flash rectangle? OK Japan, this is my last hope... come on Roland... help me out here...

www.roland.com
Ah. That's actually the biggest Flash rectangle I've ever seen, and there's nothing else. OK then, I give up with hardware. Let's try software instead. So...

www.steinberg.net
Ah. Big Flash hole. Dammit, I'm gonna do this...

www.native-instruments.com
Right... the entire site is Flash except the background. Oh well, I bet Ableton will welcome me with open arms...

www.ableton.com
Argh! Fine. Fine. If you want me to take my money to Cakewalk, I'll do it.

www.cakewalk.com
Oh for the love of... will SOMEONE out there show me their products?? How about Toontrack? Gimme those sweet drum plugins now...

www.toontrack.com
OK. OK. I get it. The entire industry relies on Flash.

So, to protest this, I'm gonna buy Logic from Apple. Their site is non-Flash. I won't have any hardware to control it with, but maybe I can whistle and do some beatboxing and record it on the internal microphone. That'll show'em who's the Flash-free boss! Billboard and platinum records here I come.

 

[SkippyThorson]

Sorry, but your Mac does not allow hardware accelleration like all versions of Windows do. Only a minority of Mac's allow that to happen. It depends on how new your Mac is if you are available to get such an "advanced" feature. You could upgr..... err buy a whole a new Mac to get the feature!

Perhaps message steve Jobs and ask why its not available on every Mac? This is a FACT that a lot of Mac people either don't know, or refuse to acknowledge.

I agree and you're correct, but that really had little to do with my issue, that is Flash. Even if I had hardware acceleration, the glitchy buggy Flash problem won't be solved.

 

[Master Chief]

Well, they are _investigating_. With the possible outcomes being "Apple didn't do anything wrong", "Apple is anti-competitive" or anything in between. If someone complains loud enough (probably Adobe because it affects them directly, and Microsoft just to create the appearance that they are not the only wrong-doers), then they have to investigate. Doesn't mean they find anything wrong.

Phew. Finally. After 200 posts... someone who understands how it works.

Note: Thanks to Drs. Nelie Smit-Kroes [Digital Agenda] of the Barroso Commission II for investigating this – she kicked Microsoft and may do the same with Apple, but only when she is convinced that something is wrong [read: breaks some EU law].

 

[pika2000]

People associated Android with freedom?
1. All Android phones (sans the N1) in the US are provider-locked
2. All Android phones (sans the N1) in the US are carrier-controlled. Even for OS updates, you have to wait for the carriers to release it.
3. eFuse

Freedom? Android doesn't give freedom to you, consumers, it gives freedom to OEMs and carriers to do whatever they want with the OS.

Now, I don't want Flash on iOS. However, I don't see why Apple should block devs from transcoding codes. I mean it's not like it's still using Flash, the app is going to be iOS native. It may not be as efficient, but then that's the point of the approval system and customer ratings, right? The only thing is, Apple's app approval system is highly questionable lately, allowing blatant copyright infringement stuff to pass. Heck, apparently some people can even put unlicensed songs to the iTunes music store.

As for Flash as the browser's plugin, as far as I see on the desktop, Flash only works properly under IE. Flash sux on Firefox, Chrome, and Safari, regardless of the underlying OS (Mac/Windows).

 

[qbert]

So, to protest this, I'm gonna buy Logic from Apple. Their site is non-Flash. I won't have any hardware to control it with, but maybe I can whistle and do some beatboxing and record it on the internal microphone. That'll show'em who's the Flash-free boss! Billboard and platinum records here I come.

LOL!

Great post!

 

[UTclassof89]

www.akaipro.com
Big Flash hole in the middle. Fine, I'll take my money elsewhere then. Let's see...

www.m-audio.com
Rats. Another big Flash hole in the middle. I'm telling the mother company, bet they won't like this Flash nonsense. They'll get a major reprimand I believe. Hello Avid here I come...

www.avid.com
Huh?? Another giant Flash hole? Oh well, I bet Korg wants my money.

www.korg.com
Gigantic, monstrous Flash hole. What the...? That's it, I'm heading over to Novation.

www.novationmusic.com
Oh COME ON. How about Yamaha? Good old conservative Yamaha, they'll have HTML for me...

www.yamahasynth.com
What? Another gaping Flash rectangle? OK Japan, this is my last hope... come on Roland... help me out here...

www.roland.com
Ah. That's actually the biggest Flash rectangle I've ever seen, and there's nothing else. OK then, I give up with hardware. Let's try software instead. So...

www.steinberg.net
Ah. Big Flash hole. Dammit, I'm gonna do this...

www.native-instruments.com
Right... the entire site is Flash except the background. Oh well, I bet Ableton will welcome me with open arms...

www.ableton.com
Argh! Fine. Fine. If you want me to take my money to Cakewalk, I'll do it.

www.cakewalk.com
Oh for the love of... will SOMEONE out there show me their products?? How about Toontrack? Gimme those sweet drum plugins now...

www.toontrack.com
OK. OK. I get it. The entire industry relies on Flash.

So, to protest this, I'm gonna buy Logic from Apple. Their site is non-Flash. I won't have any hardware to control it with, but maybe I can whistle and do some beatboxing and record it on the internal microphone. That'll show'em who's the Flash-free boss! Billboard and platinum records here I come.

Sweet!

I was just trying to visit some HTML 5 sites that have interactive applications, to see if there's anything to that "common wisdom" that Flash would eat battery life, but comparable HTML 5/Javascript wouldn't.

Uh-oh. Seems none of the sites I tried would work on iPhone!:

http://www.kevs3d.co.uk/dev/asteroids/

http://html5demos.com/canvas-grad

http://html5demos.com/drag-anything

Not saying HTML 5 never works on iPhone OS; just that these first sites I tried don't--the first never loaded, and the others use mouse events, which wouldn't work on iPhone--BUT WAIT: isn't that what they claim about Flash: it's so mouse based that it can't work on iPhone!? Turns out that's utterly false.

Not that the article prompting this thread has anything to do with SWFs running in a browser, but anyone expecting HTML 5 to be a "Flash-killer" is dreaming.

 

[Puddinman]

To all those who are happy about these investigations: Kindly make a cogent argument as to how Apple's exclusion of Flash-based content from iOS is anti-competitive.

Oh, that's right, you can't because it's not anti-competitive. For proof of that, just look at Blackberry OS, Android OS and WebOS. Apple is not creating any barriers to entry for these companies; on the contrary, they are giving them an opportunity. If they can implement Flash, then great -who needs Apple, right?

Maybe some of you should go back and review what "anti-competitive" actually entails before you argue here.

Besides, this is all just smokescreen for Adobe. Why hasn't Flash appeared on other OSs yet? Because it isn't really practical or workable.

 

[garrettcumber]

i dont understand why people are clamoring to get flash on their ios devices? could somebody please explain?

the fact of the matter is this Apple is a corporation, if they wanted your opinion on weather or not to include flash they would have asked... but corp.'s dont do that, its their decision make. for instance if you go buy a gallon of 2% milk you shouldnt get upset that its not whole milk... you bought 2% for christ sake! if you want some kind of messy flash integration go buy a droid...

idk why im even replying to this thread this discussion is ridiculous cuz someone will inevitably say to the statement of no flash on iphones and the like "but I want it" and that is jus to damn bad cuz ya cant have it, the only choice you have is to not buy an ios device! done, i need to go do my laundry!

 

[Master Chief]

I agree and you're correct, but that really had little to do with my issue, that is Flash. Even if I had hardware acceleration, the glitchy buggy Flash problem won't be solved.

Like we had to wait for years, and years before any good video drivers made it to our hardware, and that has, unfortunately, nothing to do with Apple.

 

[uber_nerd]

But you don't speak for everyone now do you.

And the same applies to you as well.

Personally, I don't want flash anywhere near iOS. My iPad works great right now, I don't want bloat creeping in. The moment you open the doors even a crack to this scourge, you are letting flash into the next round of computing - the mobile space.

Why say no?

The web should be built off of flat files ONLY, no proprietary binaries. This keeps ALL the information accessible even on very old hardware, think of all the African nations getting online with old hardware. You see HTML 5 degrades to something usable (although not pretty) even for ancient browsers and old hardware. This makes information is still available, even though you are out of date

For example, see HTML 5 vs Newton

http://www.flickr.com/photos/splorp/sets/72157624225682388/

The internet isn't just about games and entertaining yourselves, there are bigger issues afoot.

 

[Bernard SG]

No its not as simple as that. This is a very closed-minded argument. There is always room for debate. If enough customers demand something, then they might get what they want. And you don't have to be a supporter of flash to see this.

Since when??? It's like saying the EC or another Govt body can force an car maker to provide a hybrid engine add-on because many users of the car want it to be hybrid.

 

[Žalgiris]

It's their garden and Apple can decide which trees should grow there.

 

[kernkraft]

There will always be animated ads. If not in Flash, then in HTML5. If you're on a quest for an ad-free internet, you'd probably have better luck trying to catch the rainbow.

Flash is a staple of the internet experience. Videos and ads are two aspects but it's also a crucial part of many sites. "Yeah well if they have Flash content, I'll just go elsewhere, ha!"

You know, let's say you're a computer-based musician/audio dude and you want to take your daily tour of the internet to see what all the companies are up to.

(Might wanna turn on Click2Flash for this one):

www.akaipro.com
Big Flash hole in the middle. Fine, I'll take my money elsewhere then. Let's see...

www.m-audio.com
Rats. Another big Flash hole in the middle. I'm telling the mother company, bet they won't like this Flash nonsense. They'll get a major reprimand I believe. Hello Avid here I come...

www.avid.com
Huh?? Another giant Flash hole? Oh well, I bet Korg wants my money.

www.korg.com
Gigantic, monstrous Flash hole. What the...? That's it, I'm heading over to Novation.

www.novationmusic.com
Oh COME ON. How about Yamaha? Good old conservative Yamaha, they'll have HTML for me...

www.yamahasynth.com
What? Another gaping Flash rectangle? OK Japan, this is my last hope... come on Roland... help me out here...

www.roland.com
Ah. That's actually the biggest Flash rectangle I've ever seen, and there's nothing else. OK then, I give up with hardware. Let's try software instead. So...

www.steinberg.net
Ah. Big Flash hole. Dammit, I'm gonna do this...

www.native-instruments.com
Right... the entire site is Flash except the background. Oh well, I bet Ableton will welcome me with open arms...

www.ableton.com
Argh! Fine. Fine. If you want me to take my money to Cakewalk, I'll do it.

www.cakewalk.com
Oh for the love of... will SOMEONE out there show me their products?? How about Toontrack? Gimme those sweet drum plugins now...

www.toontrack.com
OK. OK. I get it. The entire industry relies on Flash.

So, to protest this, I'm gonna buy Logic from Apple. Their site is non-Flash. I won't have any hardware to control it with, but maybe I can whistle and do some beatboxing and record it on the internal microphone. That'll show'em who's the Flash-free boss! Billboard and platinum records here I come.

I love your post! This is reality. HTML5 might be the future, but you live today. And today, many sites use Flash. Besides, HTML5 will be just as abused as Flash is. All sorts of people will rely on it and make heavy applications and sites. Five-ten years later, many of these teenagers won't be here, but new ones will complain about HTML5 sucking.

I wonder where Steve Jobs will be then and what will be Apple Inc's main enemy... Maybe himself.

 

[alhedges]

There's a difference between "Customers Demand Something" and any governmental agency that force a company to do so.... nuances.

The best a customer has is the fact to NOT BUY something. Lot of people that just buy stuff because they can, probably don't even realize that anymore. It could sound close-mind to you, but it IS actually that simple.

When a company sells no product, it's the proof the product is bad and not welcomed by users. Then, they will listen users and make what the users want. If they can afford to live without listening the users, good for them...

Wasn't it great the way that cell phone companies all agreed to let consumers keep their phone number when they switched from one carrier to another? After all, if a company didn't offer number portability, they consumer would just not buy a phone from that carrier.

Oh, wait, that's not how that worked at all - we didn't have number portability until the government required it.

I'm sure as part of some shakedown racket...

The free market without regulation doesn't work and isn't free.

 

[firewood]

So which competitor of Apple has been brib^H^H^H^Hinfluencing this European Commission?

Does the next Windows Mobile support Flash? Might there be some payback for (re)directing some company's massive anti-trust penalties into the appropriate pockets?

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

LOL!

Great post!

Oh come on Logic is the best (signed people who can't afford Digi products.)

On a side note I like Logic.

 

[whooleytoo]

Well, they are _investigating_. With the possible outcomes being "Apple didn't do anything wrong", "Apple is anti-competitive" or anything in between. If someone complains loud enough (probably Adobe because it affects them directly, and Microsoft just to create the appearance that they are not the only wrong-doers), then they have to investigate. Doesn't mean they find anything wrong.

It's also somewhat ambiguous what exactly they're investigating, and why. The original article mentions the FTC investigation into the banning of the Adobe Flash iPhone compiler, not the lack of Flash support in iPhone browsers. It's quite short on specifics.

I guess we should keep open minds, and we'll see in time what those commie liberty hating bureaucratic Euro dictators are up to. Oh, and the FTC too.

 

[leroypants]

It's their garden and Apple can decide which trees should grow there.

Funny how Microsoft got in so much trouble for so much less.

 

[hwhalers]

The free market without regulation doesn't work and isn't free.

Number portability was a service issue, it didn't involve mandating technology. Forcing adoption of standards or technology (ala the Broadcast Flag) is not in the same league, and doesn't serve consumers.

Oh come on Logic is the best (signed people who can't afford Digi products.)

On a side note I like Logic.

If you like sloppy MIDI, maybe.