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European Countries Up Pressure On iTunes, FairPlay

Small White Car said:
Why?

With their massive market Apple can demand lower prices on components.

They currently sell iPods at pretty much the exact same price as their competitors (while making more profit) and the design and function are better! And if you look at the numbers of iPods and songs sold, it's clear that the majority of iPod owners don't use the iTunes store at all.

So why, exactly, would iPod sales change much at all?
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Sorry how have you come to the conclusion about the figures that most ipod users dont buy from iTMS?

In my example i had a third party player and resented apple and iTMS as i couldn't play their music on it. I was forced to get an ipod even though i didnt want one. I made the decision though as i wanted to use iTMS. Remove the restriction and i will buy 'el cheapo' player elsewhere hence screwing apple income
 
Small White Car said:
Who has said anything at all about doing that? WHY would they do that?
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The whole court case. When i say DRM i mean the ability to play on any player.....to me that is removing the Digital Rights Management as you have effectively removed any form of management on it as joe bloggs can do as they please with it
 
eenu said:
The whole court case. When i say DRM i mean the ability to play on any player.....to me that is removing the Digital Rights Management as you have effectively removed any form of management on it as joe bloggs can do as they please with it
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Its not like that, these countries want Apple to license out Fairplay so it can be implemented by other manufacturers on their devices, so the consumer is restricted iTunes <-> iPod, instead iTunes <-> any digital device
 
eenu said:
Sorry how have you come to the conclusion about the figures that most ipod users dont buy from iTMS?
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There have been about 25 iTunes store song sales for every iPod sold. Everyone I know who buys from the store has bought a LOT more than 25 songs.

Therefore, if not everyone has bought 25 songs it must mean that some people are getting into the store and buy lots of songs while many others are simply not buying anything and using their CDs and MP3s on their iPods.
 
eenu said:
The whole court case. When i say DRM i mean the ability to play on any player.....to me that is removing the Digital Rights Management as you have effectively removed any form of management on it as joe bloggs can do as they please with it
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Uhm, no. You clearly don't understand what they're asking for. It would simply NOT allow you to do whatever you please with it. Not even close.
 
Stella said:
Its not like that, these countries want Apple to license out Fairplay so it can be implemented by other manufacturers on their devices, so the consumer is restricted iTunes <-> iPod, instead iTunes <-> any digital device
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In that case if every other music distributor is forced to do the same and hence would have to give apple the rights to theirs then i see no issue.

Though i still firmly believe that Apple shouldn't have to as we have all known from day one the restrictions. Having said that if everyone else gets their knuckles rapped for it and has to conform then at least it is fair all round.
 
Stella said:
Erm, I DO grasp it, actually!

I believe in consumer rights / freedom, not consumer lock in.
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No...I don't think you do "grasp it". Try reading eenu's statement again...

eenu said:
You just don't grasp it do you? No one forces you to buy from iTMS!

Buy from somewhere else, you can get non DRM music from loads of sources on the net that will work on any player.....no one is holding a knife to your throat. People have made the decision to buy from iTMS knowing the restrictions. Get over it.
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Note the "no one forces you" and the "no one is holding a knife to your throat" parts. Also particularly note the "People have made the decision to buy from iTMS knowing the restrictions." section. Economic socialism fails, without exception and that, dear friends, is all this is. Paint it over however you want. The European nations signing on to this lunacy are trying to force socialist economic ideals onto Apple and its business model.
 
Small White Car said:
There have been about 25 iTunes store song sales for every iPod sold. Everyone I know who buys from the store has bought a LOT more than 25 songs.

Therefore, if not everyone has bought 25 songs it must mean that some people are getting into the store and buy lots of songs while many others are simply not buying anything and using their CDs and MP3s on their iPods.
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Many people i know with ipods dont even buy music digitally they use their CDs as you say
 
Sigh....
Read MY statement again...
"I believe in consumer freedom, not consumer lock in".

Its a different point of view to yours, yes, but I still 'get it'.

I think that all music from non iTMS stores should be playable on all devices - iPod, Zune etc. Any digital music playable on all digital devices.


Rustus Maximus said:
No...I don't think you do "grasp it". Try reading eenu's statement again...
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In the French case it wasn't only aimed at Apple but all DRM providers, including, microsoft. I'm sure thats the case with the other countries too - the articles do only mention Apple - though thats because its ( Fairplay ) the most popular.

eenu said:
In that case if every other music distributor is forced to do the same and hence would have to give apple the rights to theirs then i see no issue.

Though i still firmly believe that Apple shouldn't have to as we have all known from day one the restrictions. Having said that if everyone else gets their knuckles rapped for it and has to conform then at least it is fair all round.
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I'm No Theif

Many will disagree with me here, but I have no problem with DRM on the iPod. The iTS has shown that people are willing to pay for content as long as it's not too expensive. I have no illegal content on my Mac and I'm proud of that, my iPod works excellently and iTunes itself is a great media player. I now only buy CDs when they're on sale, the extortionate prices of CDs is partly to blame for the huge quantity of pirated material that's available. The only reason I have no pirated material is becuase they've made music affordable.

DRM has allowed Apple to provide this great service, which it could not have done if the record companies weren't pleased with DRM. Apple have merley offered a service, which many consumers want, like any good business should do. Clearly many people are happy with the system, shown by the amount of money the site makes, and it would be a disaster if the EU passed legislation that caused Apple to pull ou tof Europe. Many would consider returning to piracy, which would be a shame.

Anyway, no government has asked my opinion on this, I think we can guarantee that they won't consult a proper consumer-base before passing legislation that cripples my music collection. If I wanted to play it on another player, sure I could rip it to a CD and re-import it, but I like the iPod, I haven't seen anyone else come up with a nicer player.
 
eenu said:
Many people i know with ipods dont even buy music digitally they use their CDs as you say
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Right. iPods sell themselves. People only use iTMS because they bought the iPod in the first place. Altering the store will have little impact on the player. People love 'em for what they are already.
 
FairPlay for music is fine, because you can burn a CD and take off the DRM.

FairPlay for videos on the other hand, doesn't let you burn to a DVD. That's the more irritating one for me.
 
GFLPraxis said:
FairPlay for music is fine, because you can burn a CD and take off the DRM.

FairPlay for videos on the other hand, doesn't let you burn to a DVD. That's the more irritating one for me.
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Yup. This is still only a small issue only because very few people have video-capable iPods/phones at the moment.

But in 5 years this is going to be a HUGE issue. You can rip CDs and you can burn Fairplay music to CDs. People are used to that. With movies you get NEITHER of these. Once more people start to learn this fact it's going to get ugly.
 
Robbouk said:
Because I have purhcased this music, why shouldn't I be able to put it onto a PSP, or play it on my mobile phone?
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You knew when you purchased the music from iTunes that you would not be able to use it on these devices***. If you want to use it on such devices, go buy a regular CD and rip it yourself (or from another online store). Apple didn't force you to buy from iTunes.

This is ridiculous.


*** without burning CD and then ripping
 
This is easier?

jakaj said:
Yes, but you can copy the video from VHS tapes to DVDs with no complications involved, besides the purely technical ones...
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"...besides the purely technical ones..."
And this requires a separate piece of hardware, whether it be a dual deck, video card or bridge. I don't see how this is any easier, or more complicated, than burning out a CD and re-ripping it, giving you both a backup, as others have mentioned, and an additional way to listen to your purchases. By the time you're done, you can listen to your music on an iPod, any CD player, the other (inferior, IMHO) digital media player of your choosing, and your computer. How's that for choice?

TheBobcat said:
Ultimately, this is what happens when capitalist companies try to operate in socialist ones.

*Puts up flameshield.
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I completely agree.
*Room for two back there? :)
 
Stella said:
These countries are only to be congratulated.

- You aren't forced to use only one type of petrol for a particular type of car
- Any CD / DVD will work in any CD or DVD player
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Actually....

Diesel cars/trucks take diesel fuel, and some cars recommend you use 91 octane (granted you don't have to), and as for DVD's, you are restricted by region codes.
 
jakaj said:
Also, it's kind of interesting to see how when anti-monopoly and "open standards" initiatives target Microsoft, foolish followers of the Mac religion say how good it is, yet when the same happens to Apple, suddenly you "always have another option"...
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Because when Microsoft places subtle cchanges in its file formats to foul up compatibility with other Word Processors, and when they completely CHANGE the format to force users to upgrade to another version, there really is no other choice. I could, however, just as easily buy a snasa. I rip all my music from CD's anyway, so I don't give a damn either way.
 
Stella said:
These countries are only to be congratulated.

As sooner Apple are forced to open up fairplay, the better.

- You aren't forced to use only one type of petrol for a particular type of car
- Any CD / DVD will work in any CD or DVD player

You should be able to play digital music on any device you like.
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- You aren't forced to buy music or an iPod from Apple either. If you don't like fairplay, you can purchase the player and music elsewhere.
 
SPUY767 said:
Because when Microsoft places subtle cchanges in its file formats to foul up compatibility with other Word Processors, and when they completely CHANGE the format to force users to upgrade to another version, there really is no other choice. I could, however, just as easily buy a snasa. I rip all my music from CD's anyway, so I don't give a damn either way.
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He's right, IMO.

use open office and use open XML document format ( what ever its called ).

No one is forcing you to use microsoft word, if you need to:
Load your word document into Open Office, take 3 hours correcting the format, and your all good.

However, its not practical.


If Apple are negatively affected by say Patents, you get a load of people saying "Patents are evil, company X is evil".

As soon as another company is seen to imped on an Apple patent - all of a sudden its - "Apple needs to protect its patents.".
 
It all goes back to one simple premise. Apple wants to control the distribution of their product to maintain quality. Apple doesn't want people buying music from napster, having it fould up their iPod, and thinking that the iPod is a piece, nor do they want people using iTMS to purchase music for their ZUNE, having the zune go the way of the dodo, and then thinking th iTMS is the problem. It's a simple, vertically integrated business model, Apple has made it work, others have not. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to forca a company to do anything unless they are harming the consumer. You can make all the dumb comments you want, but I assure, nothing that Apple is doing is harming any consumer.
 
SPUY767 said:
Because when Microsoft places subtle cchanges in its file formats to foul up compatibility with other Word Processors, and when they completely CHANGE the format to force users to upgrade to another version, there really is no other choice.
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Sure there is. There are other word processors out there, aren't there? No one forced you to buy Word. Why is it wrong for Microsoft to do this?
 
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