Read and understand the article and you'll realise your point above isn't valid regarding removing DRM from content.
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European Countries Up Pressure On iTunes, FairPlay
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Read and understand the article and you'll realise your point above isn't valid regarding removing DRM from content.
According to the article, they say that songs are unable to be played on any other player besides an iPod.
Article said:
1) Some Motorola phones
2) Windows based PCs
3) Macintosh based PCs
4) (via CD rip) anything that supports MP3
Of course I am being literal, but option 4 is quite possible, just not convenient. I guess that is why folks use the vertical Apple model... convenience.
Curious Stella, how many songs have you purchased from the iTMS?
It says they want Apple to license out Fairplay - so other manufcaturers can implement it on their own devices. This isn't isn't the same as stripping out the DRM.
"The Consumer Council believes that Apple has only three options: it can license Fairplay to any manufacturer that wants iTunes songs to play on its machines; it can co-develop an open standard with other companies; or it can abandon DRM altogether."
(* ok, so it briefly does mention removing drm!)
Removing the DRM isn't going to happen, due to the record companies.
I've purchased 30 odd... but I'd like Apple to license out Fairplay so I can play these on other devices without degrading quality and spending more money on CDs to burn -> rip. I have better things to do with my time. I don't really like being locked in to the Apple structure.
"The Consumer Council believes that Apple has only three options: it can license Fairplay to any manufacturer that wants iTunes songs to play on its machines; it can co-develop an open standard with other companies; or it can abandon DRM altogether."
(* ok, so it briefly does mention removing drm!)
Removing the DRM isn't going to happen, due to the record companies.
I've purchased 30 odd... but I'd like Apple to license out Fairplay so I can play these on other devices without degrading quality and spending more money on CDs to burn -> rip. I have better things to do with my time. I don't really like being locked in to the Apple structure.
It seems to me that as long as apple informs the consumer that they songs only work on ipods/itunes then they should be able to do what they want. If someone else comes along with more options/better choices/no restrictions then the consumer will buy that product. Isn't this the essence of capitalism?
I'm not saying I like that the songs are restricted, it just seems like its apple's decision to make.
Just an aside:
Germany was a "Rebublic" before World War II......
I don't believe anyone has "Gauranteed Rights". Someone can take your "Right" to live away without asking you.
I'm not saying I like that the songs are restricted, it just seems like its apple's decision to make.
Just an aside:
Germany was a "Rebublic" before World War II......
I don't believe anyone has "Gauranteed Rights". Someone can take your "Right" to live away without asking you.So how many songs have you bought?
The only leverage the Ombudsman/men have is that Apple is breaking their law, right? Sounds a little subjective to me. The statement in the article was saying that because Apple wasn't allowing their DRM on competitors players, it was breaking a law. They must either show a law exictly prohibiting this business practice, or they don't have much to stand on if/when Apple lets it go to the various EU/UK courts.
Licensing out FairPlay is only 1 of 3 options offered to Apple to make them happy.
As iTunes expands this is what eventually will happen. More people will want to "download a song for 79p" but choose not to buy an iPod.
It's progression.
And I don't have an opinion on the subject. I only use iPods, I don't care for "iTunes" on my ROKR or anything else so I'm perfectly unaffected by this.
It's progression.
And I don't have an opinion on the subject. I only use iPods, I don't care for "iTunes" on my ROKR or anything else so I'm perfectly unaffected by this.
So who is forcing you to use iTMS? If you invest in songs, you can always get out of being locked in by taking the CD route. Heck, you should be backing up your investment to CD anyways... You didn't throw away your money as the CD is virtually the same quality (if you can tell the difference, you should be buying CDs exclusively).
What bothers me is that the TV show and movie downloads are not exportable to a non-Apple format. I will NOT buy anything like that from Apple and I hope/expect they will change as they realize others are reluctant for the same reason.
Yea, but its not only Norway, its Germany, France, UK. Combined.
Large markets for music.
Apple could pull out of each one, but I doubt they would. As online music stores becomes more popular Apple will be left without an online presence... and without a digital player that could play content in these countries. There are plenty of other online stores that will take its place.
Apple would only be spiting itself, and that is extremely short sighted - but then, Apple have been known to do this before.
I understand what you are saying and your point of view, but I can't play PS3 games on an XBox 360. Why? It's business. I can still listen to the radio for free, but why do people pay $$$ to Sirius radio. Because it is a different medium and has different options (mostly, no commercials). I buy songs legally fromand I still buy CDs. Most of my collection is from CDs. I chose to use a Mac and iTunes and iPods.
The point is that Apple is a monopoly in terms of market share for digital music. They are using their market position to prohibit other mp3 players from competing against the ipod by not allowing others to license fairplay.
Personally, I hope the entire DRM movement fails miserably and I will do everything in my power to help it along. These DRM restrictions are ridiculous and cause all kinds of headaches for managing various media on various machines. I haven't bought one song from itunes because I won't support any DRM.
The fact is Apple music sales would increase if DRM was removed. There are many people like me who don't buy DRM media. People stole digital music in the 90's because their were no good alternatives for acquiring digital music other than buying overpriced CD's. The stolen songs were most times of poor quality and didn't include any cover art etc. With songs priced at $0.99 or lower, almost all people will buy their music. There will be a few thiefs but DRM isn't stopping those few anyway.
So digital...what mp3 player do you use? I know you don't buy from iTunes...but obviously you still rip songs from the CD into a more portable, space efficient format correct? So which player are you using to do that?
Huh?? They may be a monopoly but if they are they're not an abusive monopoly, which is the bad part of being a monopoly. The manufacturers of other digital music players are not prevented from doing business or selling their product by not having access to the iTMS catalog. Other digital music player have their own online music delivery methods that Apple is locked out of.
That those other digital player/music store products are not as popular as the iPod/iTMS is not the fault of Apple. It is the fault of the consumers who have chosen, by their own free will and without any coersion (other than clever advertising) from Apple, to buy the iPod/iTMS product. Contrast this with the abusive monopoly that was (and some may argue still is) held by Microsoft, where consumers were prevented from buying an x86 PC without Windows. Apple does not prevent anyone from buying whatever digital music player they want and using any competitor's music store to buy music for that player. That Apple does not allow those competitors to use it's Music store is not an abuse of their dominant market position because they're not forcing anyone to buy their product.
well...ok...le sigh right back at ya...
First, you have consumer freedom now. You are not "locked in" to iTunes or any other music service. Go. Shop around. It's your freedom...which you already have. Did I mention you already are free?
So, no, you still aren't getting that.
Now, again, you are not being locked in or "lock boxed" by anyone or any company here. You have the freedom to go anywhere and use their service. With Apple there are many alternate ways already covered here to get music to and from your iPod/Mac/PC/iTunes.
The real issue you have is you don't have what you consider "consumer freedom". Your definition of "consumer freedom" doesn't make very much sense from a business perspective. Apple sells iPods. They sell lots of iPods. They want people to buy even more iPods. They want people to buy them so much that they give away iTunes to encourage said purchases of iPods. Take away that integrated link...and I bet they don't sell so many iPods. Again, not good business or good sense from a quality control perspective either.
I don't care who the French were aiming at. They should never have fired the gun. It's none of their business what Apple does with Apple's product as long as Apple isn't breaking any sort of law. They aren't. That goes for ANY company affected by this French blustering. End of story.
--- scans the news and all knowing web blogs for stories indicating where, how and when Apple's Steve Jobs aka Digital Hitler by DRM opponents, stormed and destroyed all other PC manufacturers' plants and HQ's as well as personally slaying each and every CEO of each and every competitor to ensure total Apple world domination.
When asked about this claim and why he would ever do such a thing Jobs replied:
"To crush my enemies, to see them driven before me, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Jobs then sounded a barbaric yawp (yes yawp) over the rooftops and thundered off on what appeared to be a souped up Segway with spiked tires. ---
Frankly, I and many others are stunned and amazed at the number of people here who do not realize they have a choice.
Only if you live in France, Norway, Germany or any of those other economically progressive European states. I hear the French are now working on their next proposal involving being able to squeeze mustard from your ketchup bottle so it may be a bit before they get to the camera thingie there...just give them time.
OK, let's try and turn it around: Has any market, anywhere, at any time been hurt by increasing interoperability? The usual effects have always been bigger market, more choice, more economic viability, and new uses for technology.
Having said that, although I detest DRM in all its forms (because nothing in DRM makes my life easier, as a consumer (in theory -- read on)) if I measure the impact that Fairplay has on my life, Apple has actually done a pretty good job so far.
I've probably bought a couple of hundred songs from ITS, and use it in various ways.
BUT, there are a lot of songs that ITS do not have - and that's when I go the p2p, library CD or whatever route.
I don't mind the 8dkr (denmark) that I have to pay for a song - the defining point for me is convenience. If there was NO DRM whatsoever, I would still buy from ITS since it's much easier than p2p.
I think Apple gets the point. The labels haven't yet. Every time we've pushed the technological barrier RIAA/MPAA and others have screamed bloody murder that it would destroy their industry (remember vcr's when they first came out?), and every time the market has just increased by orders of magnitude.
Is the ombudsman right in this case? In theory I think it is, if you view DRM as an artificial restriction on consumer rights. However, I also think that we are in a transitional period for intellectual property rights, and we've got a good decade to go before this has played out.
I'd rather be in the Apple camp, where I after all have technical possibilities for migrating my data (burn CD), than the Vista camp where draconian DRM has been integrated in the OS itself.
As an aside, there's a hell of a difference between applications and data. The analogy of wanting a program on the WII to run on an XBox doesn't hold water. MP3's and document files, on the other hand is a different matter.
my .02
Having said that, although I detest DRM in all its forms (because nothing in DRM makes my life easier, as a consumer (in theory -- read on)) if I measure the impact that Fairplay has on my life, Apple has actually done a pretty good job so far.
I've probably bought a couple of hundred songs from ITS, and use it in various ways.
BUT, there are a lot of songs that ITS do not have - and that's when I go the p2p, library CD or whatever route.
I don't mind the 8dkr (denmark) that I have to pay for a song - the defining point for me is convenience. If there was NO DRM whatsoever, I would still buy from ITS since it's much easier than p2p.
I think Apple gets the point. The labels haven't yet. Every time we've pushed the technological barrier RIAA/MPAA and others have screamed bloody murder that it would destroy their industry (remember vcr's when they first came out?), and every time the market has just increased by orders of magnitude.
Is the ombudsman right in this case? In theory I think it is, if you view DRM as an artificial restriction on consumer rights. However, I also think that we are in a transitional period for intellectual property rights, and we've got a good decade to go before this has played out.
I'd rather be in the Apple camp, where I after all have technical possibilities for migrating my data (burn CD), than the Vista camp where draconian DRM has been integrated in the OS itself.
As an aside, there's a hell of a difference between applications and data. The analogy of wanting a program on the WII to run on an XBox doesn't hold water. MP3's and document files, on the other hand is a different matter.
my .02
iTMS
Apple should just close the European iTMS. That would solve the problem. Then we can listen to them complain about that, too.
I don't understand what the big deal is. If you want to play music on your god-awful zen or zune, then don't buy from the iTMS. How much simpler could this possibly be?
Or you could jut buy a CD. Your rights as a consumer are not violated and are not restricted in any way simply because you bought from the iTMS.
Why don't you put pressure on Creative and Microsoft to open their own music store? Then you could buy from them.
Apple is a closed system, and it should stay that way. Apple took a gamble and it paid off, then everybody, and I mean everybody jumped on the bandwagon. And didn't they all fail? Didn't they all tank?
Why should Apple be forced to open their proprietary system, just because everyone else was too scared or too stupid to do it right?
Just shut the stores down. Problem solved.
Apple should just close the European iTMS. That would solve the problem. Then we can listen to them complain about that, too.
I don't understand what the big deal is. If you want to play music on your god-awful zen or zune, then don't buy from the iTMS. How much simpler could this possibly be?
Or you could jut buy a CD. Your rights as a consumer are not violated and are not restricted in any way simply because you bought from the iTMS.
Why don't you put pressure on Creative and Microsoft to open their own music store? Then you could buy from them.
Apple is a closed system, and it should stay that way. Apple took a gamble and it paid off, then everybody, and I mean everybody jumped on the bandwagon. And didn't they all fail? Didn't they all tank?
Why should Apple be forced to open their proprietary system, just because everyone else was too scared or too stupid to do it right?
Just shut the stores down. Problem solved.
But you have to realise that this is an extreme case. This is the same forum where people berate M$ for abusing its monopolies. Monopolies aren't a good thing for the consumer. imagine if apple managed to get an actual 100% monopoly on portable music players and online distribution and then hiked the price up to $30 per album and locked out the iPod from using any non-ITMS song. Scary?
The problem is, what if you used iTunes and an iPod, and spent $1000 on music in the iTunes Store. Two years later, your iPod breaks and you want to buy an mp3-player from LG. Only you can't because it won't play your $1000 worth of music, so you're forced to buy another iPod.
THAT'S the main problem here.
Edit: lets rephrase the question.
What if you're using Windows and a Zune. You buy $1000 worth of music on Microsofts music store. Then a year later you want to switch to Mac and kill your Windows PC crap. But you know you can't, because you'd have to spend $1000 on the same music all again. And that would make your iBook cost $2099! So you're forced to buy a new crappy Dell instead, with the extremely bad OS Windows Vista! Can you honestly say that this is how it should be??
As much as it would pain me, it would serve the EU right if Apple shut down the stores. I've several iPods, and have purchased several albums from iTMS, but at no point was I deceived into thinking I could play the tracks on any other generic MP3 player. If it mattered that much to me, I would have bought the album on CD and ripped it.
Forcing Apple to open FairPlay, is pandering to all those companies that have flagging sales, and to all the people that are too lazy to do enough research on the products they are buying, or rip CDs themselves.
Ultimately, Apple's current position is not a monopoly, as we do have a choice. We are not forced to use iTMS, just because we have an iPod. We are not even forced to buy an iPod.
It will be amusing to see what happens when people who have bought the Zune want to move their music, and can't. Oh, that's right. M$ have already done that, and got away with it. Where was the uproar then?
Forcing Apple to open FairPlay, is pandering to all those companies that have flagging sales, and to all the people that are too lazy to do enough research on the products they are buying, or rip CDs themselves.
Ultimately, Apple's current position is not a monopoly, as we do have a choice. We are not forced to use iTMS, just because we have an iPod. We are not even forced to buy an iPod.
It will be amusing to see what happens when people who have bought the Zune want to move their music, and can't. Oh, that's right. M$ have already done that, and got away with it. Where was the uproar then?