Excitement about iPad: A Large Screen Multi-Touch Platform

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

Flash is dead, dude. Steve knifed it in the keynote. Get over it already, it's not a big deal.

Yeah, sure

I'll let Steve to keep on knifing it and get some other device instead which will keep me in touch with my clients.

Frankly, I simply can't afford to loose work coz of Steve...

Perhaps I buy it when hundreds of my clients switch their sites to HTML!

 

[Friscohoya]

That is all fine and great for some...

However, Flash for others isn't just "web based video player" or FaceBook game machine...

Flash, in fact, is present in one form or the other on millions of web sites out there and is integral part of overall web experience - like it or not...

iPad, being advertised as best browsing experience ever, simply can not be that until Flash stops playing such an important part.

For example, I already mentioned this in on previous threads, I am art, design and photography business. I deal with hundreds clients working in this area and vast majority of them have Flash based sites!

Meaning, if I need to keep an eye on their latest work, I simply won't be able to do this due to the fact that Flash player isn't available for the system.

This fact alone instantly renders whole system for me useless...

It's awesome thing without doubt, it has massive potential but without supporting fundaments such as Flash player I simply have to skip it.

Can you imagine someone in situation of receiving urgent email from the client or partner saying "check this guys / girls work - here is a link" and you replying with "sorry I am using funky iPad I can't see the site since I have no Flash player installed"

I mean lol - I would stay out of business within a week using this...

I understand that there are number of people out there who can't get this point from whatever selfish reason - but this is fundamental issue that needs to be resolved first before I take a bite.

And I am sure I am not the only one!

People will be buying this device as their main portable web browser (between everything else ofc) and Apple is risking its reputation and sales tremendously here for not allowing OPTIONAL flash player installation (please note this OPTIONAL in capitals!)

By the way - I noticed few posts in here talking about how would Flash work on touch screen device.

Well here is little video that demonstrates this rather clearly:

http://theflashblog.com/?p=1666

Not to down play your experience since it sounds like this is a critical issue for you, but clearly the flash thing is minor in the grand scheme of things. Look at how well the iPod, iPhone and safari are doing. It just sounds like you shouldn't buy an ipad.

 

[cmaier]

Well said, I had the same feelings regarding the iPhone and iPod Touch when it was initially released. It was limited and not tested, however a few years later and I own them and am please that I did not jump in and buy a 1G or 2G. Patience pays off.

You missed out on a couple years of great fun. Adopting early pays off.

 

[Eidorian]

Flash is dead, dude. Steve knifed it in the keynote. Get over it already, it's not a big deal.

I'm sure SilverLight and HTML5 replaced Flash 5 minutes later.

 

[MyBrainIsSpeakn]

I am afraid you are putting to much visceral emotion into all of this. The iPad is not like some album that you don't like and boycotting means that the artists will do something different in that space.

What the iPad does and what the iPad does not do is going to be directly related to what the OS developers decide to do.

How do you get that developers feel the way you do? Just a hunch?

I believe most of their raison d'etre is to sell apps and make money. One would imagine that the iPad is something interesting to them since more real estate means creating things that are more useful, thus having a higher perceived value, resulting in higher prices.

The only way Apple messes this device up is if they tinker with the app approval process too much.

Although I am uncertain if I will buy one, I am hopeful the device does well enough to justify its existence. If it doesn't, Apple isn't sent a message "to step it up." They are sent the message there is no market for such a device and it goes the way of the Newton.

Thats funny... cus after reading your post, I could also easily say you are putting to much visceral emotion into all of this.

 

[maplestar]

That is all fine and great for some...

However, Flash for others isn't just "web based video player" or FaceBook game machine...

Flash, in fact, is present in one form or the other on millions of web sites out there and is integral part of overall web experience - like it or not...

iPad, being advertised as best browsing experience ever, simply can not be that until Flash stops playing such an important part.

For example, I already mentioned this in on previous threads, I am art, design and photography business. I deal with hundreds clients working in this area and vast majority of them have Flash based sites!

Meaning, if I need to keep an eye on their latest work, I simply won't be able to do this due to the fact that Flash player isn't available for the system.

This fact alone instantly renders whole system for me useless...

It's awesome thing without doubt, it has massive potential but without supporting fundaments such as Flash player I simply have to skip it.

Can you imagine someone in situation of receiving urgent email from the client or partner saying "check this guys / girls work - here is a link" and you replying with "sorry I am using funky iPad I can't see the site since I have no Flash player installed"

I mean lol - I would stay out of business within a week using this...

I understand that there are number of people out there who can't get this point from whatever selfish reason - but this is fundamental issue that needs to be resolved first before I take a bite.

And I am sure I am not the only one!

People will be buying this device as their main portable web browser (between everything else ofc) and Apple is risking its reputation and sales tremendously here for not allowing OPTIONAL flash player installation (please note this OPTIONAL in capitals!)

By the way - I noticed few posts in here talking about how would Flash work on touch screen device.

Well here is little video that demonstrates this rather clearly:

http://theflashblog.com/?p=1666

The people who say you are wrong are not completely ignoring your plight. Of course, if you're a working person who wants to use this iPad, it's understandable that you can't, due to the lack of Flash.

However, look at it this way. How many web developers are there in the world who specifically program in Flash, versus how many people in the world who just use the internet? I, for one, almost RARELY use flash, I really don't care for a few blue boxes on the net, and I like to read things with the iPad. So it's not like this iPad is a complete flop without flash. Many people arguing with you most likely aren't completely against having flash in the iPad, but are against your tone that the iPad is completely useless and has no function beyond a touch without Flash. That kind of statement would be untrue.

Nevertheless, having Flash is definitely an integral part of the iPad, but will most likely be a Software update, as the Hardware already definitely supports it, which is why people will probably still go ahead and buy the device. It's important to note that the iPad uses the iPhone OS 3.2, not 4.0. What this means is that Apple basically took the iPhone OS, added a few new api's specific to the iPad to handle its bigger screen (such as having dual windows, popups etc.) and spent the majority of their time developing great bigger versions of their apps. They DIDN'T focus on updating the actual core of the OS. When 4.0 comes out in around June for the iPhone, it will most likely include many new integral features in the OS, hopefully multitasking, flash and whatnot. These things are part of the integral OS, which is now tied to both the iPad and the iPhone, and will most likely be updated together.

 

[surferfromuk]

Yeah, sure

I'll let Steve to keep on knifing it and get some other device instead which will keep me in touch with my clients.

Frankly, I simply can't afford to loose work coz of Steve...

Perhaps I buy it when hundreds of my clients switch their sites to HTML!

Download that SDK, get coding - you could have a kick-ass iPad app ready for March.

If your really smart you could come up with something very innovative for it, and you may be a millionaire by the end of 2010 - could be driving a Ferrari by Xmas, now that's Flash!

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

This product will succeed for one reason:

iPad = iPorn.


Bigger is Better.

 

[till]

Flash, in fact, is present in one form or the other on millions of web sites out there and is integral part of overall web experience - like it or not...

Yes, except we don't like it. The sooner Flash dies, the better. I'd be delighted even if Silverlight replaces it; it's a well-documented system with a pretty good free, open-source implementation. Plus, being able to do client-side web development with languages that aren't utter sh*t is great.

But HTML5 is sufficient for most purposes. Don't underestimate the ability of the iPhone and iPad to shape the web. Apple knows exactly what they're doing...short term pain for the long-term advantage of forcing crapped-up Flash websites to at least offer standardized alternatives. You can't sanely build a website that's utterly incompatible with the most popular smartphone. Flash-only sites are like IE6...

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

You missed out on a couple years of great fun. Adopting early pays off.

Copy and Paste was a big one for me to be honest. By fun, do you mean growing pains and frustration, then I am glad I missed out.

Most of the apps that I use now were in its infancy back then and had a lot of bugs, the user base tried and tested it and I get to use the outcome of those customers outcries. I say it was a win/win for me as I paid less and got more.

 

[surferfromuk]

I'm sure SilverLight and HTML5 replaced Flash 5 minutes later.

Yeah, that's not so good. I've actually not tried Silverlight- is it any good on a Mac?

Seriously, if Adobe just set a few talented coders on fixing Flash for OSX they could have avoided this entire debacle.

For the record, I'm not anti-flash - it just isn't cutting it in the 21st century.

 

[maplestar]

Yes, except we don't like it. The sooner Flash dies, the better. I'd be delighted even if Silverlight replaces it; it's a well-documented standard with a pretty good free, open-source implementation. Plus, being able to do client-side web development with languages that aren't utter **** is great.

But HTML5 is sufficient for most purposes. Don't underestimate the ability of the iPhone and iPad to shape the web. Apple knows exactly what they're doing...short term pain for the long-term advantage of forcing crapped-up Flash websites to at least offer standardized alternatives.

No reason not to include it still, since it'll take web developers at least another year to two to completely switch off of Flash, and that's if the market screws flash off. Obviously, since this is such a big gripe about the iPhone, PC Tablet makers won't be slow in touting that their competing device has Flash, which just causes Flash to limp along. Only when a bunch of popular source drop Flash will devs start moving to other languages, or it becomes undeveloped. As of now though, having Flash is important, and Apple may or may not finally add it in the new software (4.0) in June.

 

[cmaier]

Copy and Paste was a big one for me to be honest. By fun, do you mean growing pains and frustration, then I am glad I missed out.

Most of the apps that I use now were in its infancy back then and had a lot of bugs, the user base tried and tested it and I get to use the outcome of those customers outcries. I say it was a win/win for me as I paid less and got more.

I bought pre-app store. I was also one of the original developers. I easily earned enough money to pay for many iPhones. And it was better than living with my Treo 650 for another couple of years.

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

Not to down play your experience since it sounds like this is a critical issue for you, but clearly the flash thing is minor in the grand scheme of things. Look at how well the iPod, iPhone and safari are doing. It just sounds like you shouldn't buy an ipad.

I understand what you mean but I don't think you understand me...

1. iPhone is primarily - a) phone b) MSGing device c) email device d) gaming device and only perhaps then a browsing device... No one really expects to have some "browsing experience" using iPhone... Frankly its only good for quickly checking the news site or similar.

2. This fact is proven by stats as well only about 0.40% of entire web use out there comes from iPhone OS (that is iPhone and iPod Touch combined!)

Not even 1%

3. I am definitely in a market for small(ish) portable device that would allow me better web and email experience then for example netbook and when I heard about iPad I thought - this is it!

But apparently not so for obvious reasons... :s

 

[cryingrobot]

The problem is

I like the device as a home wifi connected content viewer/apps player/web surfer. Its almost worth the purchase for this reason. However, I am a bit disappointed in that a few simple and minor additions could have made ths device much more desirable:

1. Everyone has mention the camera for skype video. All of my close friends and family are connected for skype video. These are the people I will be speaking to for hours while lounging around the living room at night. When you are away from home, the ability to see your family on video is huge. I have read responses claiming that people do not really use video much but I disagree. Its a big deal and the use is expanding very exponentially. Every new person that gets on skype pushes for an entire new phone book of users. A front facing camera would have been a small addition but would have made the device so much more desirable.

2. Ipad sounds very good to have around the house as it has access via wifi to my desktop and drives. However, once outside my wifi range, it becomes a cripple with a maximum of 64 gigs of content available to it. A simple USB port would have fixed this as this would allow one to connect to an external drive. This makes me uncertain about whether the ipad can replace my notebook on flights and trips away from home.

The good news is that an enterprising company can address both issues by implementing a doc like device in the traveling protective case that everyone will surely get. The case would probably have a front side side protector flap, be made of hard material like plastic or leather reinforced with aluminum and likely will have a keyboard on the front flap. The ipad would slide into a connector for its 32pin outlet which would connect to a USB port leading out of the case and a camera built into the front of the case... ironically making the ipad look just like a netbook.

There is no doubt in my mind that this device will be huge. Most people will turn as soon as they see one killer app they like whether it is an accelorometer game or some other app. For me, I will wait to see if the case I described above is available before I buy the device without camera and USB port.

 

[Eidorian]

Yeah, that's not so good. I've actually not tried Silverlight- is it any good on a Mac?

Streaming video playback without turning your processor into molten metals. It's also over HTTP as well.

Silverlight can handle presentation but right now it's used to stream video with much less overhead and lower costs.

Seriously, if Adobe just set a few talented coders on fixing Flash for OSX they could have avoided this entire debacle.

For the record, I'm not anti-flash - it just isn't cutting it in the 21st century.

10.1 with GPU acceleration is a good start.

 

[surferfromuk]

Streaming video playback without turning your processor into molten metals. It's also over HTTP as well.

Silverlight can handle presentation but right now it's used to stream video with much less overhead and lower costs.

10.1 with GPU acceleration is a good start.

You promise me it's not MS invasive and I might try it! No extra processes left running ? No 'auto-update' boot agents?

10.1 - I think I got the beta - I heard it didn't have GPU acceleration on OSX - has that changed?

 

[myusernamesucks]

Thats funny... cus after reading your post, I could also easily say you are putting to much visceral emotion into all of this.

That phrase - I do not believe you understand it's meaning.

 

[Eidorian]

You promise me it's not MS invasive and I might try it! No extra processes left running ? No 'auto-update' boot agents?

It only updates if you keep it enabled and it runs across a page running SilverLight. Otherwise I've never seen it notify me of anything otherwise.

10.1 - I think I got the beta - I heard it didn't have GPU acceleration on OSX - has that changed?

GPU acceleration is found on Windows only for now but 10.1 is still somewhat more optimized under OS X.

 

[kiljoy616]

What hardware spec on new iPad?

Do we have confirmation of what kind of hardware is in this new ipad and is it OS 4.

 

[Povilas]

It only updates if you keep it enabled and it runs across a page running SilverLight. Otherwise I've never seen it notify me of anything otherwise.

GPU acceleration is found on Windows only for now but 10.1 is still somewhat more optimized under OS X.

Not that much to make a difference and current beta is very unstable.

 

[Frazzle]

i live in a country where there is an iTunes store but it does not support movies and tv shows. so without the OS X there is no easy way to fill it with content. can't download something from internet etc. but now, its just for music - at least for us - and pictures.
Then again i read somewhere that they are negotiating a European iTunes store. if that happens then yes, iPad would be great even without OS X

Uhm, have you ever tried? You can have iTunes convert stuff for you. Just drag a video file into iTunes. If that doesn't work, there's Handbrake on the Mac to convert DVD's and on the PC the combo AnyDVD/CloneDVDMobile can re-encode DVD's to just about any mobile device out there.

You don't have to depend on Apple as much as everyone thinks, even without 'jailbreaking' your device.

But hey, most people never read helpfiles or docs or just try stuff to see whether it works, so they don't know all this.

 

[Eidorian]

Not that much to make a difference and current beta is very unstable.

The lower CPU usage is marginal and the behavior is wonky. It can't seek in a video without delaying it for 2-3 seconds even if the video is fully loaded.

 

[surferfromuk]

It only updates if you keep it enabled and it runs across a page running SilverLight. Otherwise I've never seen it notify me of anything otherwise.

GPU acceleration is found on Windows only for now but 10.1 is still somewhat more optimized under OS X.

mmmh, so no need for a 'reboot' then? just a runtime plugin - sounds acceptable.- but never been asked to install it yet but I'll bear it in mind if I ever do...thx

Mhh, this entire Flash situation is a mess isn't it - this iPad thing has just brought it to an absolute frenzy. There are gonna be some *very* difficult decisions being made in web design studios all over the world right now

 

[wizard]

The iPad is very interesting but your perspective is somewhat misplaced.

I wonder at what point the iPad bashing will start to slow down and end. It is like it has become sort of a vendetta with some of these people. You see the same names over and over posting the same drivel.

I find myself somewhere in the middle of this discussion. The iPad is really close to what I was expecting once you remove the thought that a 7" device was coming. However at this point there are real issues that bother me, these however are my issues and are not for others to discount.

Don't you folks have a life you need to get back to? I had great hopes for this thread because it started out so positive but then the same old people started posting again as if they are going to change anything except display their short sightededness.

Some would say that it is Apple that is displaying short sightedness. By the way You as a consummer have the right to register complaints about a product with the manufacture. It is up to Apple to register those complaints and act on them based on relative importance.

In this thread alone I keep seeing no-USB. Folks did you all miss the announcement of the USB adapter?

Have you every stopped to think that there is a reason you keep seeing this. Oh by the way having to attach a dongle to get a USB port is not acceptable at all. Sure a USB port can be seen as a legacy interface, but that is why it is needed. That is to offer up the missing features that many want to see on the iPad.

Or were you too busy trying to thinking up your next witty iPad bash? I find it funny you have so many complaints about flash. But then you have an equal number of people that hate flash.

I think people supporting Apple with respect to flash are just to much of the fanboi ilk to reason with. The reality is many of us hate flash but realize it is an evil required to get work done. The click to flash approach works fine on my MBP, why not support similar behaviour on the iPad? Maybe it isn't the technical issue Apple like to make it out to be, but rather a political one.

Folks say they can't live without multi-tasking. Well you folks really need to get some perspective. Your life isn't going to end if you can't multi-task on the iPad.

Life won't end but then again many won't be buying an iPad. In any event invariably those that object to user multitasking demonstrate a very limited understanding of what it is and the value it offers the average user. The intent isn't to emulate a supercomputer on the iPad, rather it is simply a desire to solve problems that can't be solved any other way. Please don't bring up notifications here as that has absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand.

Doesn't run OS X. Did you really expect it to have OS X and keep the price at a level that the masses would be willing to pay?

Well I never expected OS X but OS X has nothing to do with hardware prices. OS X has been demonstrated to run fine on netbooks.

The thing that is really stupid about the OS X crowd is their uncanning ability to ignore history and the reality of integrating Touch with legacy APIs. There is good reason to bash the OS X crowd but hardware costs isn't one of them.

SJ doesn't care about you all that wanted a MBP in tablet form. He already has your money. He is looking at a whole new mass of people to sell Apple products to. People like me who refuse to pay $1000 for a white MB but don't want to settle for an underpowered netbook.

That is all well and good, as I've said the IPad has come close to what I was expecting. However there are a number of ways to measure power and iPad fails in many ways. The lack of built in SD and USB ports are a massive shortcoming to some and reflect poorly on percieved power.

In any event you currently can not even pass judgement on iPads power simply because Apple hasn't released the technical specs to allow one to evaluate the machine properly. Nothing official has come out yet about the A4 nor the included RAM. These things weigh heavily when it comes to future software development.

Dave