We don’t necessarily need “flicker free”, just higher frequency modulation. The LCD backlight in the LCD iPhones actually does flicker too - at about 1000hz which is fast enough to be imperceptible to virtually everyone (I can’t see it).
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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I came to this website just to talk about this issue and was pointed to this thread. I had the iphone 11 and upgraded to the 13 last weekend (regular 13). So the first thing I noticed was that when scrolling through things like facebook, twitter, reddit and so on, even if scrolling slowly, all the text was becoming blurry like, as though the screen was stuttering. I got freaked out because I thought something was wrong with my eyes (I already have eye problems/glasses). Come to see now after some research I am not the only one. So the scrolling is horrible and over the last few days i find myself not even going into my apps because the blurring is so awful. Also experiencing eye discomfort and looking at the phone for even a minute, when i put it down my vision is super blurry and i need to put eye drops in. Also no matter what i do to the brightness, the screen is still way too bright like its piercing my eyeballs. Did not have any of this with the 11. Not a way to live for a phone. I have done everything: accessibility settings such as reduce white point 90% and increase brightness to almost 100%, tried night shift, dark mode, every possible setting and it makes no difference. Apparently this is due to the OLED screen from the little I understand about tech, and not a software issue that future iOS updates may fix. I am returning this beast tomorrow and getting my LCD baby back. Really annoyed with this. Thank you for listening.
JM
macrumors 601
hm, just returned from reseller, played 10 minutes with new iphones and felt weird - stomach on water, headache... so either I am really sensitive to pwm or I am very good at autosuggestions😀 but felt much better when returned to my iphone 11.. so I am probably forever on ip11 now.. one can only hope new SE will be like 11 with lcd and some better cameras... but I must say, ip13 line looks really good, shame cant use those freaking phones🙁
oh, and I felt a bit better while playing with pro line, so maybe pro is using higher frequencies? or I just made it all in my head🙂 who knows...
oh, and I felt a bit better while playing with pro line, so maybe pro is using higher frequencies? or I just made it all in my head🙂 who knows...
JM
macrumors 601
That's almost exactly my situation from today: played with new phones, head felt warm, a tiny bit of eye pain (though much less staring at the Pro), even down to the return to the 11 😛
Boyyai
macrumors member
There may be whole lot of people out there who are clueless about what’s the cause of their recently acquired eyestrain and headache problems. I don’t see this PWM issue being discussed in MSM. And the macrumors forum visitors being a minority of the phone users, I guess many might have visited their GPs unnecessarily. And imagine all those side effects of migraine reducing medications like paracetamols. This PWM issues need to be fixed before it becomes a public health issue.
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An interesting read you may not have seen, especially for those that are new to the subject:
Flicker, the display affliction
All screens flicker to some degree, but what causes it on smartphones in particular, and how does DXOMARK test for it?www.dxomark.com
Thanks that’s an excellent and very informative feature.
I hope they do reviews for the new iPhones displays sooner rather than later.
My vestibular specialist told me she has never been busier treating people with serious dizziness/balance issues.
Her conclusion is it's due to the huge rise in mobile-screen use over recent years (ie. the combination of screen use combined with movement).
She did not specify OLED / PWM but I strongly suspect it's this technology which have made things far worse, while at the same time being subliminal enough to avoid detection.
I bet there are many people who never figure out why they feel so bad.
GlenK
macrumors 68000
I just returned my 13 Pro and the girl at the AT&T store asked what was the problem. I told her and said if she had any questions just search it. Her reply was, wow maybe that's why I have headaches all the time.
I’m telling you - there’s countless people out there using OLED iPhones who have not connected the dots between vision problems & headaches and these nasty displays
Sadly, I’ll be returning my iPhone 13 Pro Max as well. It’s a wonderful phone and the camera is incredible. But, it’s not worth sacrificing my health for a fancy tech gadget. I will say that my reaction to this screen was not as bad as with past iPhones. So I guess there has been some progress made by Apple; but more needs to be done. Going back to my trusty 8 Plus. Guess I’ll treat her to a new case. 😊 Be well, folks.
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I’m curious if there is a commonality between people who sneeze from bright lights, and people who are impacted by OLED. Googling photic sneeze reflex, sources say 18-35% of people have this condition. Which is eerily similar to estimates of people impacted by OLED. But could be a coincidence.
I have the condition, and with my iPhone 13 Pro I get nausea and strong headaches over time. (And I’ve tried many different brightness settings). And just like the iPhone 12 mini did for me last year. Going to have to return the new phone again…
I have the condition, and with my iPhone 13 Pro I get nausea and strong headaches over time. (And I’ve tried many different brightness settings). And just like the iPhone 12 mini did for me last year. Going to have to return the new phone again…
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GlenK
macrumors 68000
Something I noticed different with the 13 Pro is it took longer to feel the affects. I started using it Friday around noon and felt good. Thought I had it made until around noon on Sunday then it started and by Sunday night I knew it was over.
Another thing is it's taking a lot longer for the headache and eye strain to go away. I haven't looked at the 13Pro since Sunday night and the headache is just now letting up. (noon Thursday) Always before I would feel the strain almost instantly but then when I quit using the phone it went away in a day...
Another thing is it's taking a lot longer for the headache and eye strain to go away. I haven't looked at the 13Pro since Sunday night and the headache is just now letting up. (noon Thursday) Always before I would feel the strain almost instantly but then when I quit using the phone it went away in a day...
AJTC
macrumors regular
I thought it was just me but I haven’t looked at the iPhone 13 since Tuesday and today I still feel the migraines, eye pain and now bloodshot eyes.
My iPhone 13 was picked up by TNT today for return.
I haven’t tested the new phones yet but I’m afraid I have seen enough here…looks like I will be sticking with my 11 (non-pro) for another year (at least). I want to extend a big THANK YOU for everyone affected by Apple’s OLED panels who took the time to test the 13 this year and report back here. Though I am glad to hear that the screens may be better compared to previous years, it doesn’t sound like it’s enough.
Next time I am near an Apple Store, I’ll certainly drop in to test for myself, but based on the posts here, I am not as optimistic as I was 5-6 days ago when there were some early positive reports and speculation that the the higher frequency may have solved things.
See you all again next year! 🙄
Next time I am near an Apple Store, I’ll certainly drop in to test for myself, but based on the posts here, I am not as optimistic as I was 5-6 days ago when there were some early positive reports and speculation that the the higher frequency may have solved things.
See you all again next year! 🙄
iPhone 13 Pro Max Earns DisplayMate's Best Smartphone Display Award
DisplayMate today awarded the iPhone 13 Pro Max with its "Best Smartphone Display Award". The device earned the company's highest-ever display performance grade of A+ and set or matched 12 of its smartphone display performance records. iPhone 13 Pro models feature a new Super Retina XDR display...
www.macrumors.com
How stupid that this so called ''expert'' website never talks about PWM?
But what cought my eye is that the displays are only from Samsung and according to the article in the beginning of next year also from LG. I wonder if that would make a difference?
TDDM
macrumors 6502
Like I said before, I’m unfortunately unable to get a detailed reading unless the Radex is connected to a PC, but here are the pulsation % rates:
iPhone 13 Non-Pro
100% - 5.03%
75% - 8.9%
50% - 8.12%
25% - 18.2%
0% - 16.5%
13 Mini
100% - 4.94%
75% - 8.1%
50% - 8.89%
25% - 14.9%
0% - 16.7
Just wrote to Tim that we all need nonPWM phone… i am sure nothing will happen🙂
I'm not sure if this has been posted already?
The 13 mini looks particularly awful - I guess Apple have zero interest in this after all - that's me out.
The 13 mini looks particularly awful - I guess Apple have zero interest in this after all - that's me out.
Yes, they will be even worse. Usually, the LG displays are worse than the ones from Samsung. At least, when it comes to iPhones.iPhone 13 Pro Max Earns DisplayMate's Best Smartphone Display Award
DisplayMate today awarded the iPhone 13 Pro Max with its "Best Smartphone Display Award". The device earned the company's highest-ever display performance grade of A+ and set or matched 12 of its smartphone display performance records. iPhone 13 Pro models feature a new Super Retina XDR display...
How stupid that this so called ''expert'' website never talks about PWM?
But what cought my eye is that the displays are only from Samsung and according to the article in the beginning of next year also from LG. I wonder if that would make a difference?
I had the same PWM issues 2-3 years ago. I returned XS AND XS MAX 2 times. I had really bad headaches last few times. I always upgrade to new iPhones, but since OLED screen, i couldn't. Currently I am using iPhone 11 and have no issues. I explained to couple of my friends & they probably thought I am just making things up. So now I don't say anything and just goes to store to test flickering with slow motion video. I checked on iPhone 12 last year, it was as bad as XS MAX AND IPHONE 11 PRO. Somehow i used Andrioid Oled screen on LG V30 for a while & couple of other Android phones, and didn't have any issues. I like iPhone IOS and car play, so want to stick with iPhone. I guess I will be using my iPhone 11 for 2-3 years or may try Samsung. Good to know I am not the only one, bad part is Apple doesn't even acknowledge the problem. Atleast have some new options with LCD panels as well. I don't believe anything new is always improved. I guess I will get Ipad Mini this year, instead of new iPhone. Migraines were real and painful, not worth it!
What are they going to say? “Oh by the way, all our OLED screens on iPhones for the last five years are toxic”
found this setting which makes the screen look more like the 8 Plus and better readable: settings - accessibility - display & text - Color filters.
Enable the last one: Color Tint and slide the hue bar slightly to the right (1-2 mm).
Enable the last one: Color Tint and slide the hue bar slightly to the right (1-2 mm).
Beware that Samsung is getting worse too (if it's not frequency it's pulsation, i actually don't know what affects me most).
I had 0 issues with Galaxy S10+, slight discomfort with S20+, cannot use S21 Ultra without screen overlay app (cranking up brightness and putting a shade over it, something similar to reduce white point on iOS).
And I'm a low brightness guy unfortunately (can'tstand full brightness in any environment but full daylight), to add up to the bad luck