Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[kargurin]

It's odd that my Note 10+ should be giving me problems. But it isn't. Every phone that I've tried after that does give me problems. Including the S21 Ultra and iPhones. It seems that eye strain involves more than just the frequency of PWM. At least that is what seems to be the case with me.

 

[Mastrociambella]

It's odd that my Note 10+ should be giving me problems. But it isn't. Every phone that I've tried after that does give me problems. Including the S21 Ultra and iPhones. It seems that eye strain involves more than just the frequency of PWM. At least that is what seems to be the case with me.

Welcome on board, Galaxy S10 (and therefore Note) lineup is the last one I could use without issue

 

[Maven1975]

Well, just ordered my iPhone 11 256!

Who knows how long it will be until we get another flicker free device.
It will be replacing my 2.5 year old XR. I know there are only slight bumps here and there (except cameras being notably better), I just wanted a fresh device I could slap AppleCare+ on and be safe for as long as possible.

I am not saying it’s smart or cost effective. However, I do think we may be in for a little longer run until anything, if anything is done to address this in the mobile space.

So, if you are like me and want New, not Refurbished or used, Walmart still has 256gb in most colors at $599. Yes, I do think it’s about $100 to high, but I’m willing to pay for a new device that’s eligible for AppleCare+ sealed in box.

I have been watching these and it seems Target is now sold out. So, just wanted to give a heads up if anyones interested.

Again, if you don’t suffer from PWM sensitivity, this will make zero sense.

$599 for the most recent maxed out variant is a steal for those of us stuck in this corner

 

[AJAAY]

Well, just ordered my iPhone 11 256!

Who knows how long it will be until we get another flicker free device.
It will be replacing my 2.5 year old XR. I know there are only slight bumps here and there (except cameras being notably better), I just wanted a fresh device I could slap AppleCare+ on and be safe for as long as possible.

I am not saying it’s smart or cost effective. However, I do think we may be in for a little longer run until anything, if anything is done to address this in the mobile space.

So, if you are like me and want New, not Refurbished or used, Walmart still has 256gb in most colors at $599. Yes, I do think it’s about $100 to high, but I’m willing to pay for a new device that’s eligible for AppleCare+ sealed in box.

I have been watching these and it seems Target is now sold out. So, just wanted to give a heads up if anyones interested.

Again, if you don’t suffer from PWM sensitivity, this will make zero sense.

$599 for the most recent maxed out variant is a steal for those of us stuck in this corner

I also recommend signing up for ‘Refurb Tracker’. That’s how I snagged the 128gb 8 plus. They email you the moment Apple uploads a new device configuration that you specified.

 

[GlenK]

Well, just ordered my iPhone 11 256!

Who knows how long it will be until we get another flicker free device.
It will be replacing my 2.5 year old XR. I know there are only slight bumps here and there (except cameras being notably better), I just wanted a fresh device I could slap AppleCare+ on and be safe for as long as possible.

I am not saying it’s smart or cost effective. However, I do think we may be in for a little longer run until anything, if anything is done to address this in the mobile space.

So, if you are like me and want New, not Refurbished or used, Walmart still has 256gb in most colors at $599. Yes, I do think it’s about $100 to high, but I’m willing to pay for a new device that’s eligible for AppleCare+ sealed in box.

I have been watching these and it seems Target is now sold out. So, just wanted to give a heads up if anyones interested.

Again, if you don’t suffer from PWM sensitivity, this will make zero sense.

$599 for the most recent maxed out variant is a steal for those of us stuck in this corner

Glad I saw your post. I had an 11 128g ordered from Apple with delivery 11-5-21. I had been to 2 stores and called 3 others and no one had the 128 or 256g, until I saw your post I had given up. Even Apple wasn't showing the 256. Pulled up Walmart and ordered in 5 minutes with Del next Wed 10-6. Get the 256 and in 4 days, I'll take it, thanks!! Didn't even think of Walmart...

 

[dimitricook]

Did anyone try the Xiaomi mi 11 wit ''flicker free'' mode?

 

[RobinYerbank]

I never thought I'd contribute to this thread, but here I am... Having used the 13 Pro Max for just over a week (arrived launch day), I've been experiencing horrible eye trouble for the last few days and struggled to pinpoint the cause.

I've had OLED iPhones before and never had any noticeable trouble, but there's something about the 13 Pro Max's ProMotion display that my eyes seem to hate. I've had horrible dry eyes, eye strain and itchiness that set in after about a day's use and it got progressively worse until yesterday. I realised that the only recent change was my new iPhone!

Reading through this thread, I've seen lots of discussion about the various PWM frequencies across the OLED iPhone models, how different people have different sensitivities, and wondered if the higher 480Hz frequency of the ProMotion display was causing me issues. As of this morning, I've been using the 13 Pro Max with 'Limit Frame Rate' enabled (capping it at 60Hz). Much to my disbelief, my eyes have been so much better today! The burning is gone, the redness has subsided and they're almost back to normal.

I impulse bought a pink 13 and just got home from collecting it. I'm going to try it out for the next few days and see if it's any better. I was already considering returning the Max because I wasn't getting on with the size and weight, but (if true) the ProMotion eye strain is an even greater reason to make the switch. Plus, although Sierra Blue is lovely, I really prefer the gorgeous pink of the standard 13!

I'm curious, has anyone else noticed worse symptoms with the ProMotion displays? I'm done upgrading annually and want to keep my new phone for the next 2-3 years minimum, so I intend to use the return period to its full and ensure I've got the right phone for me!

---

Edit: It's going to be harder to downgrade than I thought. I really love the big screen of the Max! I'm going to use both phones for a few days before deciding. I was also suffering with a cold/flu this week, so I wonder how much that affected my eyes...

Edit 2: I took another day (and night) to give the Max another try, and compared it to an old iPhone 8 I've still got. The Max is going back, but so is the 13! I'm beginning to suspect that I've long had OLED-related eye strain, but the 13 Pro Max is particularly bad for my eyes. And it's especially intense in the dark with dark mode enabled. I think it's because of the modulation intensity? Not sure if I've understood the right terminology from this thread, but I think it's the way it fluctuates brightness between almost 0% and 100%, despite having the higher PWM frequency.

However, I think I've always found OLED iPhones to be hard on my eyes and just ignored the issue until now. I've never had trouble with LCDs; my PC monitors and TV are flicker-free LCDs and my eyes love them. I think it's about time I valued the same comfort from my phone.

So I'm doing the unthinkabable, something I've seen many here do... I've ordered an iPhone 11 (256GB Purple)! These last 9 days with the Pro Max has given me time to re-evaluate my priorities. I love gadgets, but my health and comfort is far more important than fancy features. The 11 is still an excellent phone and it costs less than half of what the Max was going to cost me (on finance)!

I'm thinking I will put the money saved towards an Apple Watch, and possibly an iPad in the near future. Gotta get a good iPad while they're still LCD-based... 😵

 

[MM301]

I never thought I'd contribute to this thread, but here I am... Having used the 13 Pro Max for just over a week (arrived launch day), I've been experiencing horrible eye trouble for the last few days and struggled to pinpoint the cause.

I've had OLED iPhones before (iPhone X, XS Max, 11 Pro Max, 12 Pro) and never had any trouble, but there's something about the 13 Pro Max's ProMotion display that my eyes seem to hate. I've had horrible dry eyes, eye strain and itchiness that set in after about a day's use and it got progressively worse until yesterday. I realised that the only recent change was my new iPhone!

Reading through this thread, I've seen lots of discussion about the various PWM frequencies across the OLED iPhone models, how different people have different sensitivities, and wondered if the higher 480Hz frequency of the ProMotion display was causing me issues. As of this morning, I've been using the 13 Pro Max with 'Limit Frame Rate' enabled (capping it at 60Hz). Much to my disbelief, my eyes have been so much better today! The burning is gone, the redness has subsided and they're almost back to normal.

I impulse bought a pink 13 and just got home from collecting it. I'm going to try it out for the next few days and see if it's any better. I was already considering returning the Max because I wasn't getting on with the size and weight, but (if true) the ProMotion eye strain is an even greater reason to make the switch. Plus, although Sierra Blue is lovely, I really prefer the gorgeous pink of the standard 13!

I'm curious, has anyone else noticed worse symptoms with the ProMotion displays? I'm done upgrading annually and want to keep my new phone for the next 2-3 years minimum, so I intend to use the return period to its full and ensure I've got the right phone for me!

The ProMotion feels a bit frenetic, in my opinion. It didn’t bother me, but I didn’t feel the need to have it. I’m sure I’ll get used to it on a future device.

I have a regular 13 primarily for the weight. The cost difference wasn’t a big deal, but the weight was. I’m delighted to have the 12 Pro Max sensor in this phone too. Also, just seeing your post and the pictures, I really think the regular 13 looks better than the Pro.

 

[RobinYerbank]

The ProMotion feels a bit frenetic, in my opinion. It didn’t bother me, but I didn’t feel the need to have it. I’m sure I’ll get used to it on a future device.

I have a regular 13 primarily for the weight. The cost difference wasn’t a big deal, but the weight was. I’m delighted to have the 12 Pro Max sensor in this phone too. Also, just seeing your post and the pictures, I really think the regular 13 looks better than the Pro.

I don't know if it's the PWM frequency or the fact that it's constantly changing refresh rate, but there's something about that display that kills my eyes. Quite disappointing!

But I agree, the 13 a much nicer size and weight and I also agree that it looks better! I really dig the diagonal dual cameras and I much prefer the aluminium sides to the polished steel of the Pro. That steel is a nightmare for fingerprints and grime!

 

[dimitricook]

I never thought I'd contribute to this thread, but here I am... Having used the 13 Pro Max for just over a week (arrived launch day), I've been experiencing horrible eye trouble for the last few days and struggled to pinpoint the cause.

I've had OLED iPhones before (iPhone X, XS Max, 11 Pro Max, 12 Pro) and never had any trouble, but there's something about the 13 Pro Max's ProMotion display that my eyes seem to hate. I've had horrible dry eyes, eye strain and itchiness that set in after about a day's use and it got progressively worse until yesterday. I realised that the only recent change was my new iPhone!

Reading through this thread, I've seen lots of discussion about the various PWM frequencies across the OLED iPhone models, how different people have different sensitivities, and wondered if the higher 480Hz frequency of the ProMotion display was causing me issues. As of this morning, I've been using the 13 Pro Max with 'Limit Frame Rate' enabled (capping it at 60Hz). Much to my disbelief, my eyes have been so much better today! The burning is gone, the redness has subsided and they're almost back to normal.

I impulse bought a pink 13 and just got home from collecting it. I'm going to try it out for the next few days and see if it's any better. I was already considering returning the Max because I wasn't getting on with the size and weight, but (if true) the ProMotion eye strain is an even greater reason to make the switch. Plus, although Sierra Blue is lovely, I really prefer the gorgeous pink of the standard 13!

I'm curious, has anyone else noticed worse symptoms with the ProMotion displays? I'm done upgrading annually and want to keep my new phone for the next 2-3 years minimum, so I intend to use the return period to its full and ensure I've got the right phone for me!

I also did try to turn it off and it gave me a slight relief as well, on the 13p.
Besides that i am using an Xiaomi LCD phone and i get an headache when i use the 90hz mode here as well. Use the 60hz and no problems..

 

[happy orchard]

Glad I saw your post. I had an 11 128g ordered from Apple with delivery 11-5-21. I had been to 2 stores and called 3 others and no one had the 128 or 256g, until I saw your post I had given up. Even Apple wasn't showing the 256. Pulled up Walmart and ordered in 5 minutes with Del next Wed 10-6. Get the 256 and in 4 days, I'll take it, thanks!! Didn't even think of Walmart...

It's good that you can still have some of the fun with iPhone order and delivery. 🙂 Hope it goes well!

 

[MICHAELSD]

I have a comprehensive write-up coming, but I do have to say that iPhone 13 Pro isn’t quite as debilitating as iPhone X or iPhone 12.

It’s still far from perfect but it is encouraging that Apple is finally making progress on PWM.

Oddly enough it’s also making me appreciate iPhone SE: aside from the more premium design, cameras, and speakers to be fair they’re surprisingly comparable. Even the display is best-in-class for an iPhone LCD. I’ve been enjoying my life more with a tinier phone so I do have to say as a life experiment iPhone SE is a success.

iPhone 13 Pro is undoubtedly a more capable smartphone, but I don’t have the same feeling of attachment as last year where I had a hard time letting go of my iPhone 12 Pro Max despite what was essentially still 24/7 headaches and migraines. If it doesn’t work out I have no issue returning it and despite iPhone 13 Pro feeling massive coming from iPhone SE I might still try iPhone 13 Pro Max during the extended holiday return period.

 

[asus389]

I have also wondered about promotion. Its like constantly changing the refresh rate which could in theory cause problems. Does the "limit frame rate" setting cap it at 60hz (but it can still go lower) or does it set it at 60hz for everything like the older phones?

 

[ma62346234]

There is definitely a motion sickness adjustment that goes with turning on and off the 60fps cap. But from my experience, and what I’ve seen on slow-mo video the oled flicker remains the same under both settings. And I was still getting headaches and eye pain both settings.

 

[now i see it]

I might still try iPhone 13 Pro Max during the extended holiday return period.

Don’t even bother. It’ll be the same story.

 

[Maven1975]

Glad I saw your post. I had an 11 128g ordered from Apple with delivery 11-5-21. I had been to 2 stores and called 3 others and no one had the 128 or 256g, until I saw your post I had given up. Even Apple wasn't showing the 256. Pulled up Walmart and ordered in 5 minutes with Del next Wed 10-6. Get the 256 and in 4 days, I'll take it, thanks!! Didn't even think of Walmart...

I was on a mission!!!!

Glad to be able to contribute 😇

 

[lbass]

I’m so thankful for this thread. I’m new to the issue. I bought a 13 pro and a 13 pro max for another family member (having never previously owned an OLED device). I think we are both really suffering from it. I get bad motion sickness in cars and using the 13 pro provokes the same feeling.

Questions for people with greater awareness around this issue:

1. Does the issue apply to OLED TVs like the LG C1 65”?
2. Does anyone with the issue have the 12.9” mini led iPad Pro and how do you find that?
3. Has anyone tried the new iPad mini?
4. Do you anticipate the OLED Nintendo Switch to be problematic?
5. Other devices of interest: M1 MacBook Air and LG Ultrafine 5K?
6. Lastly for people who would say they have the issue quite severely what are some of the most comfortable technology products you own?

 

[Maven1975]

I’m so thankful for this thread. I’m new to the issue. I bought a 13 pro and a 13 pro max for another family member (having never previously owned an OLED device). I think we are both really suffering from it. I get bad motion sickness in cars and using the 13 pro provokes the same feeling.

Questions for people with greater awareness around this issue:

1. Does the issue apply to OLED TVs like the LG C1 65”?
2. Does anyone with the issue have the 12.9” mini led iPad Pro and how do you find that?
3. Has anyone tried the new iPad mini?
4. Do you anticipate the OLED Nintendo Switch to be problematic?
5. Other devices of interest: M1 MacBook Air and LG Ultrafine 5K?
6. Lastly for people who would say they have the issue quite severely what are some of the most comfortable technology products you own?

LG OLED TVs use analog dimming. They don’t produce the same effect. If you engage the BFI though, it will flicker, but not the same way as the phones. I should also say, Samsung is the worst brand if you are sensitive to PWM. They have undefetable PWM and cause eye fatigue. (This is when comparing the big 3 Sony, LG and Samsung)

I only tried the 2021 IPP for a few days. It did not give me the same issues as the phones. However, I went back to my 2018 IPP as it was just fine for my needs.

Have not tried the mini as it does not have promotion. (Non starter for me)

I have an OLED Vita that’s not bad. Although, I also have an LCD one that’s easier on the eyes. My guess is the OLED switch will be a no-go for me.

I have not been able to buy a MBP/MB for some time now due to the PWM implementation. I think there may have been one MBA a few years ago that was flicker free.

Apple has me boxed into a corner. It’s the IPP 2018 and the XR or my new 11 on the way. These are the most current Apple devices I can use comfortably. I suppose I could buy a MP and a flicker free monitor, but I like all of my organs and don’t feel like selling one for access to OSX.

There are some good PC alternatives (sadly that means Windows) out there that are flicker free. The new Razer Blade 14 non-OLED is flicker free this year. But, that changes every darn year as they were horrible last year.

notebookcheck does good reviews on products and gives you a heads up on display PWM. It stinks that we have to wait for this sort of analysis, but I have grown to be okay waiting for the review to be posted.

I want to add that I went into a Best Buy today and set the 13, 13PM and 13mini to max and then 50% brightness. Whipped out the slow motion cam on my XR and wow, the Mini is really bad 😡 The 13 and 13PM weren’t as bad, but you could still see the diagonal crawling lines.

 

[aldo82]

I am not up to date with this thread (it’s too big) but for anyone experiencing problems have you you tried turning off attention awareness features under face id? This is where the phone constantly monitors if you are looking at it to keep the screen on and this hurts my eyes.i have to switch this off. I had a note 8 in the past with the iris scanner and I couldn’t use that either because it hurt my eyes. So for me it’s not the screen that does it but the face id illuminator. I find Face ID to unlock is fast enough that it doesn’t really bother me but say doing something like a portrait selfie can

 

[Maven1975]

I am not up to date with this thread (it’s too big) but for anyone experiencing problems have you you tried turning off attention awareness features under face id? This is where the phone constantly monitors if you are looking at it to keep the screen on and this hurts my eyes.i have to switch this off. I had a note 8 in the past with the iris scanner and I couldn’t use that either because it hurt my eyes. So for me it’s not the screen that does it but the face id illuminator. I find Face ID to unlock is fast enough that it doesn’t really bother me but say doing something like a portrait selfie can

I’m sure AA is not helping matters, but for that majority that are sensitive to PWM, it’s the screen and how it flickers to manage power.

I have tried turning of AA, but it’s not the trick. LCDs can do the same thing if the manufacture implements aggressive power control or crappy controllers.

Apple is guilty of it with their laptops. They are hell bent on battery life and whip out every trick in order to maximize it.
Example: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...o-gets-the-M1-performance-boost.510883.0.html

It reads that above 50% there should be no PWM. I can tell you personally it’s hard to work at 50%+ constantly and I still found the screen to be fatiguing

 

[super chimp]

I notice that none of the big name reviews on YT talk about this issue or even touch on it.

I suffer from motion sickness quite easily so am wondering if the promotion on the Pro phones would trigger this.

 

[LFC2020]

I notice that none of the big name reviews on YT talk about this issue or even touch on it.

Check out Zollotech, he normally talks about it.

 

[asus389]

I notice that none of the big name reviews on YT talk about this issue or even touch on it.

I suffer from motion sickness quite easily so am wondering if the promotion on the Pro phones would trigger this.

While not PWM, they talked about motion sickness and Promotion on the latest episode of ATP.

 

[super chimp]

While not PWM, they talked about motion sickness and Promotion on the latest episode of ATP.

ATP?

 

[asus389]

ATP?

Accidental Tech Podcast

Three nerds discussing tech, Apple, programming, and loosely related matters.

atp.fm

Its in the section where they talk about Promotion on episode 450. The discussion starts at about 1:29:00.