Facebook and Spotify CEOs Slam Apple's App Store

ACHD said:
You are intentionally ignoring the fact that apple refuses to let spotify know that people can purchase on the wesbite.

When a vast majority of users never visit the website its an issue.

Apple PURPOSELY DOES NOT let app devs or companies let people know they can buy **** from the website. Apple says its so they can get their 30% cut on all purchases made using an apple device.

Apple in this case is preventing Spotify from even telling people about the audiobooks and since apple sells audio books this is an issue.

Spotify does not use Apples Infrastructure to host or stream or allow downloads of any content. Apple presented a plan to allow Spotify to sell audio books then when Spotify complied apple refused still. And Apple refuses to approve any app update allowing users to be notified via EMAIL at the minimum that they can download via the website.


So do not go around ignoring the fact that you have 1 company literally stopping another from offering services that don;t really involve "apples" systems. And the fact its only being done because apple also sells audiobooks.

Apple is allowing themselves to become a monoply and is preventing anyone else from offering the same services apple does.

Apple limits telling users they can go to websites to buy products/services yet apple is allowed to tell people they can go to any apple websites, and is allowed to email users and allow purchases on websites etc.

In the audiobook situation Apple is trying to kill Spotify;s audiobook business and cause monopolistic levels of harm.


Apple is not the good one in this one subject. A monopoly is using your market position so others can not offer a service or to use your market power to increase your prices and or to prevent competition.
Spotify wants to create a service that apple does not have "subscription audiobook stuff"

The understanding is that would take away from apples ****** audiobook services sales, The books app is beyond neglected.

Its infuriating how a company acting like a monopoly and using their position to stop others from doing buisness and to cause harm, has people who think they the abusers are innocent. Its crazy. Entirely crazy.

Its like no one paid attention in econ, history, or Government classes at all.
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Let me know any business that tells their customers to go else where.
I am shocked and surprised that these companies have been able to advertise this information on their own sites to any great effect.
 
These two companies' business models depend on selling user data like its cotton candy at the county fair. Don't need to think hard why they're thirsty for alternate ways of getting their app on people's phones.
 
ACHD said:
The issue with comparing android/google to apple in terms of app stores and control is that.

1. Google allows other payment sources.
2. Google allows 3rd party app stores.
3. Google allows side loading.
4. Google allows 3rd party side loading.
5. Google allows you as a user to use Adb to install applications.

6. Apple prevents other payment sources.
7. Apple prevents 3rd party payment sources.
8. Apple Prevents side loading.
9. Apple Prevents 3rd party side loading.
10. Apple Only allows User installed applications through MDM and a dev license thats 100$ a year.

11. Google does not prevent develipers from linking to a website to bypass googles payment source.
12. Apple blocks any and all mentions to a website or any method of trying to sell services or digital goods through anything but apple. You can't even tell the user you have a website.




There isn't much of a Duopply in a sense. There is only 1 manufacture fully locking everything down.
Google makes the android operating system and you are able to take it with google updates to AoSP and use it for free.
There are some cases where you need to include the google store etc depending on licensing. But you are not FORCED to include google services when you can make a phone with AoSP.

On google phones you can unlock them to install your own operating system or remove app stores and install your own.
With apple you can not remove key system services and can not install your own App Stores.


The reality is... Something people "here" do not like to accept and its ****in truth. Apple is has been and is becoming more of a bully to try and force other companies to not offer services.
In todays modern age a phone is not always a luxury and in many cases its a necessity. You have one company "Apple" making it as expensive as possible to use the device and any 3rd party services, and you have google who well with free AoSP basically made it possible for manufactures and app devs to be able to reduce costs and make things affordable.
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Google business model relies on adverts, not Apps, not hardware sales.
Google is only in these businesses to scrape even more user information.
As they say, with google, YOU are the product that is being sold.
 
archcat said:
People here are ****ing out of their mind… imagine being against the option to choose where you get your apps from… imagine using a PC and only being allowed to install apps from Windows Store…
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Ignorance is not an excuse. Side-loading on a device used by nearly billion people, most of them clueless to the potential danger of the shady wide wilde west type of apps that could infest the platform and be made for one purpose only, to trick and scam users who have in their phone pretty much everything, starting with personal data, bank accounts, credit cards, personal messages and emails, family photos and what not. There is a reason why you have to secure your PC with firewall and pay for antivirus programs (probably made from the exact people who create computer viruses) I think you have absolutely no idea how bad that could turn out to be for majority of people who are not tech savvy.
 
Facebook, Spotify and Apple are all as bad as each other. All greedy for our money and taking the mick out of us with costs whether we care to admit it or not.
 
The-Real-Deal82 said:
Facebook, Spotify and Apple are all as bad as each other. All greedy for our money and taking the mick out of us with costs whether we care to admit it or not.
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I have bought their products, not their services.
I may have 1 or two Apps on my computers from the stores, but most are bought direct, or they are open source.

I have some free games on my IOS devices

Oh, I have the same version of OSX server I have been using since 2012, I run a to of my own services from home.

I will be moving those services to Raspberry Pi's soon

The only subscriptions I have is for Netflix and Disney, neither of which we bought though Apple but they work just fine on the ATVs.
 
dbwie said:
We can debate where to draw the line, or just allow Apple to draw the line. They are the ones negotiating to sell the phone worldwide, are talking with all the relevant governments. At the end of the day, the blame will fall on them if the iPhone is somehow at the center of some nefarious activity whatever country it occurs in. The customers can choose their products, and Apple can also choose their customers by how they choose to present and market their products. If enough people don't like their choices, a market for an alternative will spring up. Cell phones are so expensive now, I think there is a growing market for a lower cost alternative. I don't buy the strength of the duopoly, especially with manufacturing diversifying out of China now.
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I don’t understand why the blame would fall on them. Perhaps due to Apple’s babysitting, somehow people have expected them to take care of everything but it’s ridiculous. Crimes are committed every day using electronic devices. No one blames the manufacturers of these other electronic devices. I don’t think anyone is holding Google responsible for car thieves using android but maybe I’m wrong. Burglars have been using the Raspberry Pi and other small computers to jam cameras, but I don’t think those companies are being held responsible.

I don’t think it’s so much that Apple is being held responsible, but due to the fact they have the capability they are being used as a tool. If Apple didn’t have such a lockdown on the iPhone, then China or other governments couldn’t pressure them to do anything. I think it’s a double edge sword with the OS being locked down helps but it also makes Apple vulnerable to pressure.

I would love to see another alternative besides Google and Apple but I don’t think it’s going to happen. I think at this point they have the market locked down. Look at how the web browser market is turning out. Microsoft can’t even make their own browser successfully so they have to use Google. Right now it’s Google (Chrome/ Chromium), Mozilla (Firefox) and Apple (Safari) with Google, holding a huge majority. It’s just out of reach of even large developers to come out and make a web browser. I think it’s the same way with a phone operating system.
 
sir1963nz said:
I doubt it.
Apple just needs to point to all the times these companies have abuse customers rights to privacy and then point out that they can ALSO just use a web browser for free.
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I’ve seen others say you can just use a web browser. The problem is a web browser doesn’t allow everything. I think that capability is getting better though.

The best thing point they could argue is they are locking down the OS for “customer safety”. That’s what they’ve been arguing and so far it’s been working.

I don’t think they could argue other companies are doing terrible things so they can do them as well. That’s kind of like arguing to a cop who pulled you over that other cars were speeding. It might work, but I don’t think that’s the best argument.
 
russell_314 said:
I’ve seen others say you can just use a web browser. The problem is a web browser doesn’t allow everything. I think that capability is getting better though.

The best thing point they could argue is they are locking down the OS for “customer safety”. That’s what they’ve been arguing and so far it’s been working.

I don’t think they could argue other companies are doing terrible things so they can do them as well. That’s kind of like arguing to a cop who pulled you over that other cars were speeding. It might work, but I don’t think that’s the best argument.
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web stuff works well for all of Apples iCloud accessible software, Numbers, Pages, etc as well as Office 365 offerings and others. I have NEVER used a App to access any anti-social media platform. If I can not get it through my web browser, I simply don't use that service.

What these options DONT do is allow them to access all the users data, and the user is just the gateway to the data to sell to advertisers.

I use ad blockers and a large hosts file, if they have no respect for my privacy and my data why should I have any respect for their advertisers.

If Netflix or Disney put in adverts, I close my account.

These companies are complaining as the use of their platforms has peaked, their grit trajectory has stopped .
Now they are trying to boost their share/take over value via what ever means they can as well as try and get eye balls because "Apple is being mean to us"

I have a friend who has a band on Spotify, they get 1/100th of a cent (or less) for each time a track is played.
 
vikingjunior said:
Just like the USB-C the EU will eventually force Apple to allow side loads.
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Apple seems to have been preparing for this eventuality by decreeing that in Denmark, developers using third party payment options will still need to pay 27% to apple as a platform fee. Coupled with the typical 3+% for payment processing, this is actually a worst deal for them, especially when it means that smaller developers don’t benefit from the 15% reduction, or for the reduction in subscription cuts after the first year. On top of the added admin load of having to have their sales receipts vetted by Apple.

I suspect Apple will also do something to make sideloaded apps more inconvenient to run (eg: having to deal with annoying pop ups like what we saw with third party keyboards).

In a way, I am actually interested in seeing this new legislation being passed, if only to see what Apple’s answer to it will be.
 
russell_314 said:
This argument was already used in this thread but it doesn’t hold water. The difference is if I owned Walmart then I can put whatever items I want on my shelf. I own my phone but someone can tell me I’m not allowed to put something on the shelf.
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You don't own the software on your phone, or the app store.
 
In the world of reddit, within the AITA, there is the ESH acronym.

I think in this situation ESH, I'm no fan of facebook, spotify, and twitter. With Musk complaining, both Facebook and Spotify see an opening to push their agenda. Yet Apple isn't innocent either
 
sir1963nz said:
Let me know any business that tells their customers to go else where.
I am shocked and surprised that these companies have been able to advertise this information on their own sites to any great effect.
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Every physical store on the planet.

Many stores sell goods like books, games, equipment that contains inside them a link to their website or codes for a cheaper products.

Xbox games and even the console links you to the Xbox store to buy games or use special codes.

While at the same time the physical store have an entire section with games lined up for you to buy
 
Does anyone under about 70 use Twitter anyway. It was a dying platform even before that cretin Musk took it over. It will go the way that MySpace and Bebo did
 
BvizioN said:
Ignorance is not an excuse. Side-loading on a device used by nearly billion people, most of them clueless to the potential danger of the shady wide wilde west type of apps that could infest the platform and be made for one purpose only, to trick and scam users who have in their phone pretty much everything, starting with personal data, bank accounts, credit cards, personal messages and emails, family photos and what not. There is a reason why you have to secure your PC with firewall and pay for antivirus programs (probably made from the exact people who create computer viruses) I think you have absolutely no idea how bad that could turn out to be for majority of people who are not tech savvy.
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This is a made up problem.

Do you fear all your contact information being stolen on your friends and family’s android phone?

People are adults and they don’t need you to tell them what to do.
 
BvizioN said:
Been reading this type of comment for nearly 15 years.
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There is a growing crucification bloodlust for big tech - just as Microsoft angered millions for internet explorer shenanigans. Perhaps Apple will not lose, but there will be an upcoming onslaught of anti Apple PR and hearings from Gym Jordan on the way. Apple is in the cross hairs. I’ll root for Tmmaaay.
 
toph2toast said:
True, but the issue is that Walmart has competition with other stores. What competition does Apple have with the App store? I own my iPhone, but can only download apps through the Apple App store.
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That’s just the way it is. Their rules. Freedom to do what they want. Control is their choice. Steve wouldn’t want it any other way. Capitalism is not a charity. It’s a fierce battle for invisible illusions of value. Apple has created an extraordinary level of perceived value. People lined up for days to buy early iPhones for a reason. Destroying Blackberry was a clear signal to the world. Dominance. Dominating. Dominant. Winning.
 
SteveJawbs said:
That’s just the way it is. Their rules. Freedom to do what they want. Control is their choice. Steve wouldn’t want it any other way. Capitalism is not a charity. It’s a fierce battle for invisible illusions of value. Apple has created an extraordinary level of perceived value. People lined up for days to buy early iPhones for a reason. Destroying Blackberry was a clear signal to the world. Dominance. Dominating. Dominant. Winning.
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The thing is it isn’t.
Their rules apply for the AppStore.
The iPhone is my property. Them making up rules for how I use something I own is way out of line.

I’m not renting Or borrowing It. I purchased it

And is good time the law enforced private property rights again.
 
Yeah and I've seen these phones that modification is allowed on. The manufacturer, the carrier, Google, and the highest bidders load those things up with so much garbage they are nigh unusable out of the box. Just absolutely loaded down with spyware and adware.

For all Apple's annoying controlling policies, it's still nowhere near the absolute wasteland of Android. Sure, you can get an Android phone that doesn't have most of that stuff and can disable most of the rest, but this is their vision. The phone is just an ad endpoint.

Apple seems to be leaning toward the worst of both worlds though. They still want strict app control but are also starting to be much more friendly towards advertising. Do not want.
 
dbwie said:
So, you are OK with third party access to Apple Pay? How about your Face ID data? There are already plenty of ways to pay for stuff from your phone, Venmo, Chase Pay, Square, PayPal
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Third parties already have access to Apple Pay.

Many reader apps use Apple Pay instead of IAP functions

Websites have access to implement it.
FaceID as well is used by third parties.

The Secure Enclave is still locked away
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