Facebook and Spotify CEOs Slam Apple's App Store

[tranceme]

As somebody who worked on multiple apps in the App Store, the 30% cut seems completely fair to me. We have several apps with in-app purchases, some subscriptions, all available globally and we don't have worry about the app's placement and promotion, taxes, legal stuff etc. If we were to build the infrastructure alone, we would be around the same cost margin to be completely honest. Yes, it might be a bit cheaper but the difference would be marginal.

You are correct. And, add security as well. Our apps are available in so many countries that we could never handle by ourselves.

 

[tranceme]

Maybe someone has mentioned this. But, Apple also doesn't charge for the distribution of free apps. I mean, they could. I don't mean ad supported free apps or in-app purchase apps. I mean fully free. Some companies provide support apps to their products. These apps are available globally and be downloaded over and over again. Pretty nice.

 

[mrochester]

That's fine and all, but if a user wants to accept the risk of having an unstable iPhone in order to have options for app stores on their phone, they should be able to. That isn't a decision Apple should make for them.

Of course thats a decision Apple should make for them, it’s Apple’s product. The consumer decision is whether to buy the Apple product in the first place.

Its no different to Apple deciding for consumers that they can’t buy an iPhone 14 mini, or do you think Apple should be forced to make an iPhone 14 mini so that a consumer can chose it?

 

[dk001]

Okay then. Look at gaming, Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo controls how developers get their games on their systems, and has rules on content, and as consumers we can only get the software those companies allow. That's not even the counting the control over exclusives (1st, 2nd and 3rd party included).

Wanna play Bloodborne on your Switch or Mario on your XBox, good luck.

Also, to the people who use the 30% as why "Apple is bad!", All three console makers (as well as GameStop, Amazon, Steam, etc) charge 30%. The only exception are MS's PC marketplace, and I think GOG. which do 12-15%

However for all these platforms I have several venues to purchase the games I want to play.
I don't own a PS5 however the consoles I do own I can also sideload along with buying from various B&M locals and online.

What do they charge or what does the sell process look like? No real idea. For resale (2nd hand) and side load there is likely 0%.

Point is I have POS options in these venues I do not have with my iDevice.

 

[dk001]

What do you think would happen?

Aside from snarky comments, ad campaigns and the like? Because when the largest marketshare leader in home computers failed honestly, I'm really confused as to what nefarious plots happened/would happen.

I suspect devs would have pressure put upon them to NOT expand into the new landscape.
Maybe even bought out.
I don't see Apple nor Google playing big-brother.

JMO

 

[dk001]

Of course thats a decision Apple should make for them, it’s Apple’s product. The consumer decision is whether to buy the Apple product in the first place.

Its no different to Apple deciding for consumers that they can’t buy an iPhone 14 mini, or do you think Apple should be forced to make an iPhone 14 mini so that a consumer can chose it?

What?
Not after POS. At that point it is mine.
Ford stops selling the Focus RS so I buy an ST. After sale it is mine, not Ford's. (no I don't own either of these)
Same with either of my Thinkpad X280's. After I bought them they are mine, not Lenovo's. (yes, I won two of these)

Not seeing your point at all.

 

[rjp1]

Well, I think Apple is feeling some of this heat. It was just announced that Apple is not going to remove Twitter from the App Store. This does not really solve the problem of the major issue with Apple having so much control, but it gives them some more breathing room. Apple did not want to pick a fight with Musk while they’re already fighting with Facebook and Spotify. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

While some of my posts may seem anti-Apple, I’m really not. I’m not a blind fan boy, but I really like Apple’s products. I don’t know all the answers, but I would like to see some improvement to the current system.

I can see from the list of products in your sig that you aren't anti-Apple lol. I'm all in on the Apple ecosystem too. I love Apple products. There are just a few issues I have with them, and they aren't minor. They all come down to they have become too powerful.

 

[mrochester]

What?
Not after POS. At that point it is mine.
Ford stops selling the Focus RS so I buy an ST. After sale it is mine, not Ford's. (no I don't own either of these)
Same with either of my Thinkpad X280's. After I bought them they are mine, not Lenovo's. (yes, I won two of these)

Not seeing your point at all.

Absolutely the hardware is yours. On that basis you can do what you like with it whether that be smash it or make passionate love to it.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I commented earlier about this, yes you are correct with Microsoft allowing you to get games outside of the Microsoft Store, but both Nintendo and Sony restrict digital games through their consoles to their store only. You cannot compare the ability to use physical game disks in consoles and the Apple App Store because there is no physical thing for the App Store besides like gift cards.

You need to compare that just like Nintendo and Sony (where Sony even has the digital only PS5) those app stores only allow games to be purchased from their store. Sony used to be more lenient but they have since shut those down. Sony for a few years now have stopped the purchase of digital game codes being purchased from retailers, so for instance, the digital only PS5 (the cheaper one) basically you are restricted to whatever full price/sales that Sony wants to give.

*I will put the disclaimer that yes a consumer can purchase a digital key from a person from like G2A but this comes with it's own risks and IMO cannot be counted*

I would say the G2A or similar absolutely counts as you can sell and buy games from other places.

I can buy an Xbox, Nintendo or PlayStation game key.

For iOS zero such abilities exist. Even in physical stores you can buy digital copies of games and just receive the key.

Okay then. Look at gaming, Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo controls how developers get their games on their systems, and has rules on content, and as consumers we can only get the software those companies allow. That's not even the counting the control over exclusives (1st, 2nd and 3rd party included).

Wanna play Bloodborne on your Switch or Mario on your XBox, good luck.

Control over exclusives isn’t a problem as the basis is a physical incompatibility between the platforms. If a company chooses to be exclusive and not develop for all platforms that’s up to that developer.

Also, to the people who use the 30% as why "Apple is bad!", All three console makers (as well as GameStop, Amazon, Steam, etc) charge 30%. The only exception are MS's PC marketplace, and I think GOG. which do 12-15%

The problem is still it’s the only option. And it’s inconsistent in its enforcement.
Some pay apple 15-30% but other pay 0% for arbitrary reasons

Perhaps Ford and GM should invite independent car designers to add their own untested and unverified customizations to cars in the production assembly line.

They already do. You are free to buy unverified or verified customizations to your car from any random store.

And if I don’t I can just go to the ford store and buy OEM stuff

Apple really has no reason to allow anyone to deploy apps on their platform without any inspection or verification. I like it this way.

Good for you, but it’s still anti competitive and anti consumer. Apple enforced this only for their own benefit.

Google actually ranks windows software malware sites at the top of their search lists.

Search for any windows drivers and watch the fake apps appear at the top of the list, crushing unsophisticated users into installing malware.

An open system like Windows is insidious to this kind of thing.

You can search on Mac as well. Unsophisticated users can’t dumb down everything for us.

 

[cthompson94]

I would say the G2A or similar absolutely counts as you can sell and buy games from other places.

I can buy an Xbox, Nintendo or PlayStation game key.

For iOS zero such abilities exist. Even in physical stores you can buy digital copies of games and just receive the key.

The only reason I said that it shouldn't count IMO is because there are plenty of instances where the seller is not legit then the buyer has to go through customer service and dispute the charge and so on. If digital keys were officially sold via like Walmart, Gamestop, etc. then this wouldn't be an issue. I know that you can get Nintendo game digital keys through like Gamestop, but you are limited to what that specific store orders/stocks.

In a way you can do the same via the App Store if you think about it, You can buy App Store credit that is discounted/on -sale from say Target spend lets say $20 for $30 of credit and then make your app purchase/in-app purchase for technically a discounted rate. Yes this is method that most will not do, but the same goes for G2A. I used to be a huge gamer across all of the platforms and sure most gamers know of G2A, but your average person...ha nope

 

[toph2toast]

Of course thats a decision Apple should make for them, it’s Apple’s product. The consumer decision is whether to buy the Apple product in the first place.

Its no different to Apple deciding for consumers that they can’t buy an iPhone 14 mini, or do you think Apple should be forced to make an iPhone 14 mini so that a consumer can chose it?

No its not, it's my device that I bought and paid for. I should be able to choose to install something on my phone outside of the app store, just like I can on my Mac.

 

[mrochester]

No its not, it's my device that I bought and paid for. I should be able to choose to install something on my phone outside of the app store, just like I can on my Mac.

You can chose to do that, you just cant do that when using Apple’s software.

 

[toph2toast]

Perhaps Ford and GM should invite independent car designers to add their own untested and unverified customizations to cars in the production assembly line.

Apple really has no reason to allow anyone to deploy apps on their platform without any inspection or verification. I like it this way.

Google actually ranks windows software malware sites at the top of their search lists.

Search for any windows drivers and watch the fake apps appear at the top of the list, crushing unsophisticated users into installing malware.

An open system like Windows is insidious to this kind of thing.

I can download and install loads of software for my Mac outside of the Mac App Store, and I doubt every single one of those is inspected/verified by Apple. Why should my phone be treated any differently?

 

[Ethosik]

The 30% cut isn’t the issue. It’s the fact that there is no way to sell an app to an iOS user that doesn’t involve Apple as a middle man. These aren’t phones, they’re pocket computers. If I want to buy an application on my laptop, I’m not forced to go through an App Store. I can if I want, but I don’t HAVE to. That’s the real issue. Why can’t I install an application on a device I own without going through Apple? If this became Apple’s stance on a desktop or laptop, many, many people would ditch Apple computers, but we are all too willing to put up with it on our pocket computers. Why?

Then we also need to look at Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo. There is no way to make a PS5 game without Sony as the middleman. Even if you just want to sell at target, there is no way to avoid Sony fees and licensing.

 

[toph2toast]

That’s called “value add”
Apple makes more money selling phones and iPads because they’ve added inherent value for every single customer by saying the App Store is vetted.

The App Store isn’t perfect - you can still buy a crap kitchen toy at Target, but it’s a waaaayyy better bet that it’s the real deal vs buying off Amazon. And Williams Sonoma, they probably only have the good stuff.
That’s the value they offer. you know it’s better just by seeing the name on the outside of the store.

What you consider to be "value add" can also be considered a monopoly. I agree that Apple has the recognition of being a quality brand, so let the Apple app store exist, along with others. Then the consumer can decide where to get the software for their devices. If people most people agree that Apple's app store approach is the best, they don't have anything to worry about, right?

 

[toph2toast]

You can chose to do that, you just cant do that when using Apple’s software.

Yes, because the iPhone is so vastly different from the Mac that only vetted apps should be allowed on a phone, right...

 

[mrochester]

What you consider to be "value add" can also be considered a monopoly. I agree that Apple has the recognition of being a quality brand, so let the Apple app store exist, along with others. Then the consumer can decide where to get the software for their devices. If people most people agree that Apple's app store approach is the best, they don't have anything to worry about, right?

Well we know from Android it doesn’t work, so no point changing it in iOS.

 

[sir1963nz]

Every physical store on the planet.

Many stores sell goods like books, games, equipment that contains inside them a link to their website or codes for a cheaper products.

Xbox games and even the console links you to the Xbox store to buy games or use special codes.

While at the same time the physical store have an entire section with games lined up for you to buy

No, that is just a different part of effectively the same store.
A different store in this case would be Microsoft telling people to go buy a Playstation.

 

[BWhaler]

I meant in the current wave of manufactured animosity Musk is bringing coupled with a virulent Republican Congress holding hearings to slaughter Apple. Zuckerberg is going to ride on Musks wave after years of bad press for his own sins.

Apple deserves the 30%. It’s high AF for sure, but they’re providing an incredible platform that costs a lot to maintain 24/7. Musk has a similar complex technical beast now to manage and maintain and can barely roll out a measly $8 gimmick. It’s tough to survive. Apple is in an incredible position due to innovation and strength. I guess BlackBerry and Microsoft should sue them too for destroying their mobile phone market. It’s a wildly tough game. Apple won.

Agreed. Phil had the memo years ago which they should have followed—cut the fee before it makes Apple a target.

This is such short term thinking by Apple. Money today vs control and power tomorrow. Sooner or later, even 10 years from now, someone, somewhere, will convince a court or government will limit Apple’s control over their own app experience. And all those profits will be fool’s gold.

 

[tubular]

Not after POS. At that point it is mine.

They sell you the phone. They only license you the software. With terms and conditions.

 

[russell_314]

You don't own the software on your phone, or the app store.

Yes you don’t own the code but you have the right to use it. If what you’re saying is taken to the extreme then they are allowed to block certain websites they don’t approve of

 

[tubular]

Yes you don’t own the code but you have the right to use it. If what you’re saying is taken to the extreme then they are allowed to block certain websites they don’t approve of

And you, in turn, have the right to buy someone else's phone because you don't like how Apple runs theirs.

Don't like Apple phones? There's an alternative, big as life and entirely viable, right across the street.

And that's really the end of the story.

 

[russell_314]

And you, in turn, have the right to buy someone else's phone because you don't like how Apple runs theirs.

Don't like Apple phones? There's an alternative, big as life and entirely viable, right across the street.

And that's really the end of the story.

Umm no it’s not. If you control 50% of the market share you can’t just say oh well if you don’t like it then too bad. Apple is going to find this out 😂

 

[mrochester]

Yes you don’t own the code but you have the right to use it. If what you’re saying is taken to the extreme then they are allowed to block certain websites they don’t approve of

You have the right to use it as Apple designed it, not as you want it. Absolutely Apple could block certain websites. As long as you are aware of that as a consumer and base your purchase on knowing that information.

 

[tubular]

Umm no it’s not. If you control 50% of the market share you can’t just say oh well if you don’t like it then too bad. Apple is going to find this out 😂

Have a read of the verdict in the Apple v Epic trial. You'll hear the distinct sound of the "but but monopoly" dog failing to hunt.