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Facebook and Spotify CEOs Slam Apple's App Store

polaris20 said:
Don't compare something as dumb as this to a serious social rights issue.
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It's only dumb for you because you think it's a dumb. Someone being in charge of telling you what you are allowed to have on a phone that you purchased is significant. Since most people get the majority of their information and the majority of their communication happens on a phone this is a significant issue.

As Oprah said it's in a billion pockets so if Tim says this billion people aren't allowed to have Facebook then he can lock them out. That's way too much power for one man or even one corporation.

Don't get me wrong I actually prefer the walled garden because of security but it's becoming a monster that Tim Cook is unable to control. There has to be another way.
 
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brofkand said:
How is Apple blameless for the factories they contract? But Spotify is somehow to blame for what an artist negotiates with their label? Spotify does not pay artists anything, they pay labels.
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I work in the music industry. What you said is (I'm willing to bet intentionally) inaccurate. Streaming services do not pay labels, they pay publishers. If you are an independent artist, whatever publisher you used (CDBaby, Tunecore, Distrokid, whatever) is paid. However, Spotify pays the publishers much less than Apple Music, which means, effectively, artists get less money for equal streams from Spotify than Apple Music or Tidal. Spotify has always been a horrible deal for artists, and is only sustainable to publish there because they have the largest market share.

Compare to apps, for example. iPhone is just 30% of the market, and yet developers get so much more money from the App Store than the Play Store. That's a pretty f*ckin' good deal. 30% cut is fair.
 
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gnipgnop said:
The App Store is not the only way to access Facebook. It can be accessed through a mobile web browser too.
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Not all apps can be accessed by a web browser. How about WhatsApp or Signal? Maybe this is the answer to make apps accessible by the browser.
 
Len Banks said:
I just don't understand the logic of this. ALL brick and mortar retailers curate their products and take a cut. Nobody is suing Nordstrom, for example, to carry Kohl's brands. If one doesn't like what Nordstrom carries, they need to shop elsewhere and in this case use a different phone platform. Isn't it just that simple?
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Your logic is quite flawed. Nordstrom does not have a duopoly on retail clothing. I'm pretty sure if Nordstrom controlled 60% and Kohls had the other 40% marketshare, and they attempted to exert unfair control things would be different.

Bottom line is smartphones are now considered a basic utility (like phone service, power, etc. ) all those industries are regulated since consumers wont have choices, for example if i'm unhappy with my electric provider, I don't have other options. Apple made a business decision to lockdown the $1k phones we bought and prevented customers from being able to download and install apps unless we go through their app store. With this in mind, they are charging app developers a highway tax to be able to install on our phones. They can also remove apps based on whatever they want. This is too much control. If we had alterative app stores on our phones, we may be able to buy apps cheaper on another store, vs. apple's app store. But we have no choice.

With apple controlling over 55% US smartphone and Google with the other, they are a Duopoly and are highly subjected to regulation.

The question I always ask is, why am I able to install apps on my Mac or Windows OS without being forced into the MS app store. There is no reason this can't work on iPhone. Apple has made a business decision to make it this way, and they are abusing it. This will not last forever.
 
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ponzicoinbro said:
Facebook hurt the lives of so many people badly.

Facebook didn't care their platform was being used for hate speech and lies and misinformation for years.

Spotify cheats artists badly for years.

Spotify was so bad Taylor Swift slated them.

Apple Music and iTunes paid artists and labels more money.

These are facts.

Why are the enemies of real working people always trying to make Apple look like the bad guy?

Simple truth : because they are projecting and trying to rewrite their dirty history.
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Maybe because the more light is shown, the less pristine we see Apple?
Your reason is likely part of it too.
 
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russell_314 said:
It's only dumb for you because you think it's a dumb. Someone being in charge of telling you what you are allowed to have on a phone that you purchased is significant. Since most people get the majority of their information and the majority of their communication happens on a phone this is a significant issue.
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Can you not just buy the phone that does what you want? This picking and choosing of "I want this phone, but I need to be able to do this and that on it" is absurd. The iPhone isn't the only capable smart phone on sale. Buy what fits your needs.

I don't understand the sense of entitlement that allows people to dictate what is on the device they agree to purchase, besides purchasing said device in the first place. You knew what it could and couldn't do when you bought it, no? If it didn't do what you wanted it to (side load, alternative app stores) why did you buy it?
 
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In the last decade, the common narrative surrounding Apple was that it was doomed to fall at the hands of cheaper android phones which made up a larger share of the smartphone market worldwide.

We all know how that claimed turned out. Today, Apple is bigger and richer than ever.

This decade, the narrative seems to have shifted to how Apple has apparently gotten too greedy and supposedly possesses too much power, and needs to be reigned in. And many critics are falling over themselves to soothsay just how Apple will presumably get broken up by various governments and lawmakers around the world until it is no more than a shell of its former self.

It’s still early days, but I am fairly confident that one day in the future many years from today, we will look back on this day in the exact same manner that I now look back at the past decade of ludicrous (and clearly erroneous) claims. Just more “Apple is doomed” posts that never end up materialising, and which continue to highlight the ignorance and myopia of many an Apple critic.
 
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Len Banks said:
I just don't understand the logic of this. ALL brick and mortar retailers curate their products and take a cut. Nobody is suing Nordstrom, for example, to carry Kohl's brands. If one doesn't like what Nordstrom carries, they need to shop elsewhere and in this case use a different phone platform. Isn't it just that simple?
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Not this again.

Your example would hold some truth if all the products at Nordstrom were only available at Nordstrom and could be bought nowhere else. If you want to shop somewhere else you would have to set up a completely new household that is Non-Nordstrom and then you can buy from Target or other stores - but not Nordstrom.
 
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polaris20 said:
Can you not just buy the phone that does what you want? This picking and choosing of "I want this phone, but I need to be able to do this and that on it" is absurd. The iPhone isn't the only capable smart phone on sale. Buy what fits your needs.
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While I understand that argument and I sympathize with it because I feel the same way I don't think it's going to save Apple. The problem is when the company controls such a significant market share such arguments don't always work. It's the same way Microsoft got in trouble. Bill Gates couldn't just say well just go out and buy a Linux computer so we can do what we want.

It's not about the 30% because that could just be justified as a business expense that when they're also censoring content then it becomes a civil rights issue. I absolutely love Apple and love Apple products but they are digging themselves a hole to bury themselves. When they're doing things like turning off AirDrop at the request of the CCP in China to shut down protesters it just doesn't look good for them. As I said I'd like the walled garden because it's more secure but the problem is who is going to manage this without abusing the power. I don't think there's a way to do this correctly at least I can't think of a way. I really don't want to see sideloading like android has but is there another way?
 
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groove-agent said:
You do the legwork for a software platform and you can charge whatever you want.

I feel their complaints are more political in nature, to boost their own profits (which aren't modest).
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Yes and no. Microsoft got in trouble for including a web browser with the operating system. Can you imagine if Microsoft locked down Windows and forced all app developers to pay 30% to be on Windows. They would have been shut down so fast..

I agree that Facebook is doing this for profits of course. They see a weak spot in Apple and they're going for it.
 
russell_314 said:
Bill Gates couldn't just say well just go out and buy a Linux computer so we can do what we want.
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Bill Gates couldn't say that because it wasn't and isn't remotely the same thing. Android isn't Linux (in market share. Amusingly, it IS Linux). It's a far more even split with iOS vs. Android.
russell_314 said:
I don't think there's a way to do this correctly at least I can't think of a way. I really don't want to see sideloading like android has but is there another way?
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Yes, there is. Buy an Android phone.
 
cwagner1 said:
Why is 30% too high? Apple provides the credit card and refund processing, hosts the files on their servers, deals with os compatibility issues, provides the internet bandwidth for all the downloads, provides the IDE and documentation free of charge. A credit card charge costs large companies 10 cents plus 1.9%. Thats not a big deal on a $100 purchase, but most iOS purchases are $1 - $2. That is 7-12% just to run the credit card.

Back in the OS 9 days you had to buy Code Warrior to write your software. If I remember correctly that was almost $1000. Plus you needed to purchase the inside Macintosh Toolbox books as reference material at $200 each. Internet bandwidth and server costs once you get to the scale of a popular app are not cheap.

Platforms like Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft take a 30% cut of digital game sales for video games, why does the iPhone have to be different?
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100% thank you! these companies are trying to blame Apple for being greedy when they are being greedy themselves. Meta is just mad because their fearless leader keeps tanking funds into a very questionable project I would be more mad about the billions wasted in the Metaverse. Spotify.. besides their extremely sketchy ways of even becoming big and the amount that actually gets shared with the artists is ridiculous for how big they are.

Microsoft is the only one that isn't as strict on the different store rules. Both Nintendo and Sony are extremely strict with digital downloads and also do 30% cuts
 
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rjp1 said:
Sorry, I don't consider freedom of speech a "dumb" thing.
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I don't think it's simple as his freedom of speech but by controlling the platform Apple can control communication. They did it in China at the request of the communist party. I really wish they would thought that through because doing stuff like that it's just putting them in a bad light. I'm happy with the status quo how things are going with the Apple ecosystem but unfortunately I don't think it's going to stay the same way
 
cthompson94 said:
100% thank you! these companies are trying to blame Apple for being greedy when they are being greedy themselves. Meta is just mad because their fearless leader keeps tanking funds into a very questionable project I would be more mad about the billions wasted in the Metaverse. Spotify.. besides their extremely sketchy ways of even becoming big and the amount that actually gets shared with the artists is ridiculous for how big they are.

Microsoft is the only one that isn't as strict on the different store rules. Both Nintendo and Sony are extremely strict with digital downloads and also do 30% cuts
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Of course. None of these companies are doing this out of the goodness of their heart. Even Apple isn't some sort of charity.
 
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tubular said:
As the Epic suit showed, you can't say "They have slightly over half the market! They need to be forced to relinquish their monopoly!" without having it fail dramatically.
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I think this will be discussed in court and probably by different governments. I can see the EU taking interest in this one. Apple has made some poor decisions that are going to haunt them. Again just because you don't have 100% marketshare doesn't mean you can do anything you want.
 
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