Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg: Apple's App Store Blocks Innovation and Competition

[CatMG]

Speaking of blocking--I detest FB and detest HIM, the one I call The Little FaceBook ****. He masterminded the powerful tool with little oversight, and out came the bullies, hustlers, exploiters, liars and thieves. The Little FB **** never showed remorse when bullied, young suicide victims started dropping, or even when a foreign country to utilize FB to sway a presidential election.

So, yeah, I hope HE loses tons of revenue and I might start feeling a little compassion for him. (Not really. Never.)
My kids told me just last week that FB is quickly becoming obsolete to the younger generations, so logic says that some day The LFBF will be obsolete too. Later pal.

 

[nixo]

Nope - our country, our rules. We the people (who vote in the government, which represent us and make the laws) decide the rules on how businesses are allowed to operate in our country. We have created anti-monopolistic laws (and employment laws, and environment laws, health laws, etc etc) to protect us from businesses who want to operate in ways that hurt us. The Apple app store is different from a department store, as it is the only store that is allowed to operate on the iPhone, whereas anyone can open a department store. So if you want to sell stuff in a department store in New York, you have many choices, or can even open one yourself. But if you want to sell apps on an iPhone, you only have one monopoly choice. That's why this whole thing is blowing up.

So you are saying I can open a store on the Walmart grounds and sell the same good cheaper and pay only what I feel
is fair for rent ??? damn.

 

[Mescagnus]

Hey Mark,

I have an idea: Build a Facebook phone. Grow a loyal consumer base. Charge your customers whatever you want for whatever applications you create. Use their data to send predatory advertising as you wish.

Oh, wait....

They tried:

Here's why the Facebook phone flopped

<b>commentary</b> The HTC First has a lot going against it, despite support from some heavy hitters.

www.cnet.com

 

[7149041]

You paid $30,000 for a car why can’t you just install any software you want?

Or your smart TV, gaming console, Kindle? Paid for my Playstation, why can’t I install Linux? It’s perfectly capable of that, but Sony won’t allow it.

That rabbit hole goes dangerously deep. I agree, if you don’t like a walled system, don’t buy it, problem solved.

 

[7149041]

Nope - our country, our rules. We the people (who vote in the government, which represent us and make the laws) decide the rules

The same democratic process (aka mob rule) gave you slavery and racial segregation, the same popular vote put Hitler in power, so the voice of the people ain’t always the universal best way to go. “Common man” sense is a surprisingly inadequate tool for most national-level issues.

 

[MvdM]

How does a store, that did not exist about 10 years ago, and gives access to many developers, block innovation? Fortnite is free, Facebook is free, these companies pay $99 a year to get their free apps hosted 24/7 on one of the big online stores. These stores need maintenance, servers need to run etc etc. Epic and Facebook got 70% of all the millions that were made from App Store and Play Store. With the tools Apple provides they can make great (AR) games. How do they block innovation? By taking 30%? Facebook simply wants your data AND your money.

 

[Nicole1980]

If Apple where a bricks and mortar department store, who decided no to stock any Zuckerberg products- would we be having this argument?

My store, my rules. You don't pay rent, but we take a percentage of your returns as remuneration.

That analogy would have been more apt if you had added that Apple was one of only two department store chains in the entire world. If you had added that little critical fact, I think a lot of people would say, yes - they need to be regulated.

But ya'll continue with your unfiltered Apple lovefest. The biggest company in the world can do no wrong in your opinions.

 

[MauiPa]

"I mean just think of all the innovative ways that FB would steal your data and sell it for profit it it weren't for that darned App Store". @IknowIZuck

 

[nixo]

Except when they're not. I have friends in the valley who work in the privacy space and they all laugh at the idea that Apple is protecting your privacy. Sure, Apple themselves aren't data mining and spying on you, but they allow tons of apps into the App Store that do just that, many of which are far more egregious than anything Google does, for example.

I would be nice to all of us if your 'friends' would give some names off apps who misuses our privacy,
and how they do it.
So we can ban them ourselves.

Or is it just another hear/say.

 

[I7guy]

Except when they're not. I have friends in the valley who work in the privacy space and they all laugh at the idea that Apple is protecting your privacy. Sure, Apple themselves aren't data mining and spying on you, but they allow tons of apps into the App Store that do just that, many of which are far more egregious than anything Google does, for example. If Apple REALLY cared about privacy, they'd forbid all kinds of activity that goes on in third party apps today, but they won't because they know developers will flee the platform.

Couple of things. Your post has contradictions. Either Apple has good privacy policies or they don’t. Googles’ data mining is continuous, when apple finds out an app doesn’t meet guidelines they take action.

“If apple cared”, they do care, and that’s an uninformed statement. Apple has strict guidelines as evidenced by fortnight being pulled as one example.

Apples review process can’t catch everything, especially at back-end.

For sure, and "trustworthy" Apple let it go on for who knows how long. Saying that most developers can't be trusted is a ridiculous and offensive generalization. Would you say the same thing about people of a certain race? Or people who work other types of jobs? Of course some developers are shady. Some people are shady. But to generalize all people of a certain group is pretty low and disgusting. There are millions of App Store developers. A small percentage of them were clipboard snooping. That is hardly "most".

Same as you quoted “trustworthy” as it relates to Apple?

 

[I7guy]

Fanboy logic doesn't apply to FTC antitrust laws. Read and learn.

https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/what-we-do

PROTECTING CONSUMERS
The FTC protects consumers by stopping unfair, deceptive or fraudulent practices in the marketplace. We conduct investigations, sue companies and people that violate the law, develop rules to ensure a vibrant marketplace, and educate consumers and businesses about their rights and responsibilities. We collect complaints about hundreds of issues from data security and deceptive advertising to identity theft and Do Not Call violations, and make them available to law enforcement agencies worldwide for follow-up. Our experienced and motivated staff uses 21st century tools to anticipate – and respond to – changes in the marketplace.

PROMOTING COMPETITION
Competition in America is about price, selection, and service. It benefits consumers by keeping prices low and the quality and choice of goods and services high. By enforcing antitrust laws, the FTC helps ensure that our markets are open and free. The FTC will challenge anticompetitive mergers and business practices that could harm consumers by resulting in higher prices, lower quality, fewer choices, or reduced rates of innovation. We monitor business practices, review potential mergers, and challenge them when appropriate to ensure that the market works according to consumer preferences, not illegal practices.

Maybe the FTC should protect consumers from Epics nonsense. Critic logic doesn’t apply to the FTC anti-trust laws either.

 

[ke-iron]

more like. Apple blocks our app's spying too much... so we hate them. also...

yep, freedom to install is a right. if you spend $1k on a phone or iPad. ought you not be able to install software you choose to? without an Apple Pay wall? many say "HELL YES!"

When you buy an iPhone you’re agreeing to Apple terms as well. So even though it’s your phone you cannot demand to bypass their rules of how things are allowed to run on it.

 

[Kar98]

He’s one to talk.

 

[Macaholic868]

Zuckerberg with fewer millions. I care so much I could cry...

 

[Fusionskies]

I’m ok with the logic of “my store, my rules”. Seems fair to me.

 

[I7guy]

Not true! Facebook installs trackers on most every website, so, even if you don’t use Facebook, they try to amass information about you to sell.

Thankfully, ios 14 safari has enough AI built in so it seems to mitigate this behavior. Have to get the same tech, built into all browsers.

 

[tolsen718]

Facebook is a purposely addictive product, intended to waste people's time in order to make money for Facebook. Imagine the innovation that would happen if Facebook and other wasteful social media just didn't exist. People would have more time to focus on truly creative tasks.

 

[PaloAltoMark]

Facebook charges monopoly rents to use their platform, only the payments aren't in cold hard cash but personal information that they can and will exploit/misuse.

In a company-wide meeting, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg on Thursday referred to Apple's App Store as monopolistic and harmful to customers. Apple "blocks innovation, blocks competition," and uses the App Store to "charge monopoly rents."

The Facebook Gaming app on Android​

Zuckerberg's comments, which were said to 50,000 Facebook employees over a webcast, were shared by BuzzFeed News. Apple, said Zuckerberg, has a "unique stranglehold as a gatekeeper on what gets on phones."

Facebook has been chafing at Apple's App Store rules after Apple blocked Facebook's gaming app, which launched earlier in August. Apple rejected Facebook Gaming multiple times because Apple does not allow apps that offer alternative stores with content that it cannot vet. Facebook launched the app without gameplay functionality, and it can be used to watch streams of other people playing games, which is its primary purpose.

Apple and Facebook also had another disagreement in August after Apple refused to waive fees for Facebook's paid Online Events feature. The Online Events option in the Facebook app is designed to allow small businesses and individuals to organize paid digital events that Facebook users can sign up for.

Facebook asked Apple to waive its 30 percent fee taken from the in-app purchases for Online Events or let Facebook process event payments with Facebook Pay, but Apple refused because that's a violation of its App Store guidelines.

Since Apple wouldn't waive its fees, Facebook intended to add a note in the Online Events feature that said "Apple takes 30% of this purchase." Apple took offense to the wording and did not allow Facebook to include the wording in the Facebook app. Apple said that the update violated an App Store rule that prevents developers from showing irrelevant information to users.

In addition to disagreements over the App Store, Zuckerberg is unhappy with changes that Apple is making in iOS 14. Facebook on Wednesday said that the anti-ad tracking feature Apple implemented that requires customers to agree to be tracked across apps and websites could cut down on 50 percent of the Audience Network Ad revenue companies earn through Facebook.

Zuckerberg also had thoughts on Apple's ongoing dispute with Epic Games, and said Apple's thwarted attempt to block the Unreal Engine was "just an extremely aggressive move" that was "quite problematic."

Both Apple and Facebook, along with Google and Amazon, are facing a U.S. antitrust investigation. The CEOs from the four companies in July testified in an antitrust hearing with the U.S. House Judiciary Antitrust Subcommittee. The chairman of the subcommittee, David Cicilline, this week said that the four tech companies are "behavior which is deeply disturbing and requires Congress to take action."

Article Link: Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg: Apple's App Store Blocks Innovation and Competition

Others posters have pointed out that facebook mines your personal information but the monopoly problem is worse than that when it comes to businesses. In any other world, the content provider gets paid. In the facebook world, its users provide the content and then are charged fees to do it. If you're a business owner with a facebook page, you provide content that brings users to facebook. Once upon a time, the content was shown to anyone who had liked your page. Nowadays, your content doesn't get shared with fans unless you pay to advertise the posting. So now businesses are forced to both provide content that brings users to Facebook and to pay facebook for the right to do so. Yes, businesses wouldn't do it if it wasn't in their best interest to do so. However, this kind of behavior is what economists call "rent extraction and is precisely the things monopolies do when they have captive customers. Sad.

 

[macsimcon]

Both of them are both things: socially conscious sociopaths.
Being socially-conscious is good PR investment. Just a number in their spreadsheets.

Wait a second. I have plenty of evidence that Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg are sociopaths, but Tim Cook? The guy who wants Apple to run on renewable energy, hence alienating a ton of conservatives like Rush Limbaugh? Cook supports civil rights. How do you think THAT sits with conservatives? Sorry, I don't see any evidence that Tim is a sociopath.

 

[canesalato]

Wait a second. I have plenty of evidence that Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg are sociopaths, but Tim Cook? The guy who wants Apple to run on renewable energy, hence alienating a ton of conservatives like Rush Limbaugh? Cook supports civil rights. How do you think THAT sits with conservatives? Sorry, I don't see any evidence that Tim is a sociopath.

Jobs supported civil rights too, albeit more privately (but MLK references and homages started in the Jobs era).
And yet, I agree with you, he was probably a sociopath. As for Cook, I am persuaded that 10 or 20 years from now, a lot more people will share my opinion on him. I believe he created a mask, a PR persona (properly adjusted and fine-tuned for each country), and I am convinced that the real Cook is something very different from that. Scarier than Jobs. I respect your opinion on him, of course, and I don't intend to convince you that I am right.

 

[ComRadMac]

"the anti-ad tracking feature Apple implemented that requires customers to agree to be tracked across apps and websites could cut down on 50 percent of the Audience Network Ad revenue companies earn through Facebook."

Ah, there it is. That's why facebook has an opinion.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

No, it’s not a monopoly unless you’re defining iOS as the entire marketplace, which makes no sense. The relevant “market” here is mobile phones/devices more broadly, and maybe even OS’es beyond mobile since FaceBook can be accessed on desktop OS’es also (and fortnite on other gaming platforms also). It’s true that being on AppStore provides access to a lot of potential customers, but developers who want to distribute their app/game/service have many mainstream and popular ways to do that including Android apps, MacOS or windows desktop apps, and (of course) browser interfaces, which is a perfectly fine way to access facebook, including from an iOS device (I did it for years).

Do you cross shop between the iOS App Store and the Google Play Store? Does anyone?

The answer is no. Therefor, they're in separate markets and don't compete.

Yes, they sell many identical items, but that doesn't make them the same market. Just like many of the same things can be bought in the US and Canada, that doesn't mean that the US and Canada are within the same market.

This isn't like Walmart and Target, or Home Depot and Lowes, or Walgreen and CVS, where I can easily look for a product in one, then cross the street and look for a product in the other, then buy from whichever sounds like a better deal to me.

Android phones and the iPhone are within the same market, so the iPhone itself is not a monopoly. The iOS App Store, however, is.

If someone wanted to sway my opinion on this, I think a good angle to look at would be comparing the iOS App Store to a concession stand... except no, that still doesn't work. I was going to argue that once I decide to see a movie in one theater, I'm going to use their concession stand, but that's nonsense - I, like most people, smuggle most of my candy in from other stores in the area. Something which can't be done on iOS - I can't smuggle an Android app onto my iOS device.

 

[Cosmosent]

Is Zuckerberg intelligent ?, OR is he someone who is Slow on the Draw ?

I used to think the former, now I'm more inclined think the latter.

How can he NOT know that Apple does what it does ?

 

[1rottenapple]

**** Zuckerberg. You're just pissed because you can't exploit people's personal info and sell it to the highest bidder. I have no empathy for Facebook and their shady practices.

it’s one geek calling the other nerd. (Pot calling kettle black).

I know it’s the same thing with fb. They buy out competition and suppress competition so he has no right to talk.
I can’t stand him. He’s a horrible person.

 

[smarch]

riiiggghttt