Facebook Says Apple's Upcoming Anti-Tracking Prompt is 'More About Profit Than Privacy' [Updated]

[iStorm]

I'm sure Facebook will still have other ways to track people, such as by IP address.

I was at my parents a few weeks ago and was shopping online for a gift for my mom. We both have Facebook, and never have used each other's devices at all. I was watching my mom scroll through her newsfeed one day, and here comes an ad from the site I was looking at. It says "Continue where you left off..." and shows the actual product I last looked at. They had to be tracking by IP address, which doesn't surprise me. I should have known better, but thanks a lot FB!!

 

[ninethirty]

Then you are not a hypocrite. Hypocrites are the ones still using Facebook for free, but complaining about advertising. You can't use a free service then complain that they target you with advertisements.

No, I think you can. There's obviously the cliche expectation, "If you aren't paying for the product, you are the product," but ad tracking and building highly detailed and connected profiles has gotten completely out of control. If you still use Facebook (and I seriously can't figure out why anyone would - that platform is cancer), you can and should demand compromise if you still want to be there. You can say "Look, I get that since this is free, you've got to make money somehow, but these things are a bridge too far, how about meeting in the middle?" Facebook doesn't have to listen, and you need to make a decision at that point, but I think complaining about ads is a perfectly reasonable thing to do still.

 

[yakapo]

Since when has Facebook cared about small businesses? They might as well appeal to starving kids in India. “Stop Apple from robbing hungry kids! Keep ad tracking!“

 

[ozzymo]

No, I think you can. There's obviously the cliche expectation, "If you aren't paying for the product, you are the product," but ad tracking and building highly detailed and connected profiles has gotten completely out of control. If you still use Facebook (and I seriously can't figure out why anyone would - that platform is cancer), you can and should demand compromise if you still want to be there. You can say "Look, I get that since this is free, you've got to make money somehow, but these things are a bridge too far, how about meeting in the middle?" Facebook doesn't have to listen, and you need to make a decision at that point, but I think complaining about ads is a perfectly reasonable thing to do still.

You are missing the big point. Facebook is a choice. It is not forced on anyone. Please provide a link where someone was forced to sign up with a Facebook account, then forced to download the app, then forced to login with their account on that app. Facebook is a choice people make all day, every day, every step of the way from signing up, downloading an app, and then logging in with your account. It is a choice people have and make. And obviously they have chosen to be targeted and use the free service. Whether its free by payment or free by advertising, it's a choice people make. I have yet to find one example of consumer choice being a bad thing. It's great having choice. I don't like Facebook, I don't use Facebook, and therefore I don't need to cry and complain about Facebook. I exercised my consumer choice.

 

[ozzymo]

Since when has Facebook cared about small businesses? They might as well appeal to starving kids in India. “Stop Apple from robbing hungry kids! Keep ad tracking!“

Name one example where Apple cared about small businesses. Apple gouges businesses big and small alike. Apple makes a LOT of money in the app stores off of small businesses. No company cares about small businesses. All companies care about profits. Including Apple.

 

[TrueBlou]

Love to see crystal clear understandable EULAs too.

Wouldn’t the world be such a nicer place. Or at least, less ... annoying, I’d have a significantly easier time reading the dang things

So proud of myself, I only swore in my head

 

[ninethirty]

You are missing the big point. Facebook is a choice. It is not forced on anyone. Please provide a link where someone was forced to sign up with a Facebook account, then forced to download the app, then forced to login with their account on that app. Facebook is a choice people make all day, every day, every step of the way from signing up, downloading an app, and then logging in with your account. It is a choice people have and make. And obviously they have chosen to be targeted and use the free service. Whether its free by payment or free by advertising, it's a choice people make. I have yet to find one example of consumer choice being a bad thing. It's great having choice. I don't like Facebook, I don't use Facebook, and therefore I don't need to cry and complain about Facebook. I exercised my consumer choice.

I'm not missing anything, because I didn't suggest what you're asking for proof of. Be realistic, most people have, or have been on social media of some kind. It's a "thing." No, nobody has forced you to use it, but it's natural to be curious about it, or to even appreciate what it does bring to your life. Over the years, Facebook has gotten more and more creepy about what they collect, what they build and store about you, and pretty awful about how they secure and store that information. It's reasonable for people to say "I'm sorry but this is too much." They can either leave, or they can demand that Facebook back off. Facebook doesn't have to listen, at which point, again, you have a choice to make.

 

[m11rphy]

Yes you're right everyone reads that. My mom and my grandma would know to go to that page and read Apple's huge advertising disclaimer. Of course not! Apple's personalized targeted advertising is turned ON by default. You would have to know to read that article and then go into the settings yourself and turn it off. You get no popup. But for every other company out there, there will be a popup asking you to be tracked or not. Why doesn't Apple do the same for their own apps? Why don't you get a popup asking about Apple's apps. Because they don't want you to go into the settings and turn off targeted advertising on their apps.

Is it turned on by default? Ive just checked an its turned off on my iPhone and I dint know the toggle existed until 5 min ago.

 

[Rochy Bay]

Facebook today in a blog post claimed that Apple's upcoming anti-tracking privacy-focused change in iOS 14 will have a "harmful impact on many small businesses that are struggling to stay afloat and on the free internet that we all rely on more than ever." Facebook has also launched a "Speak Up For Small Business" page.

"We disagree with Apple's approach and solution, yet we have no choice but to show Apple's prompt," said Facebook. "If we don't, they will block Facebook from the App Store, which would only further harm the people and businesses that rely on our services. We cannot take this risk on behalf of the millions of businesses who use our platform to grow."

A refresher on the situation: Starting early next year, Apple will require apps to get opt-in permission from users to collect their random advertising identifier, which advertisers use to deliver personalized ads and track how effective their campaigns were. This will occur in the form of a prompt that shows up when users open apps on iOS 14.

In a list of grievances, Facebook said Apple's anti-tracking change is "about profit, not privacy," claiming that small businesses will be forced to turn to subscriptions and other in-app payments for revenue, in turn benefitting Apple's bottom line. Facebook also accuses Apple of setting a double standard, claiming that the iPhone maker's own personalized ad platform is not subject to the upcoming iOS 14 policy:Facebook tones down its language a bit further into the blog post, claiming that Apple's anti-tracking change is "more" about profit than privacy.

Facebook accuses Apple of making "far-reaching changes without input from the industry and the businesses most impacted" in an effort to push businesses and developers into a business model that benefits the company's bottom line. "The truth is, these moves are part of Apple's strategy to expand their fees and services business," said Facebook.

"We believe Apple is behaving anti-competitively by using their control of the App Store to benefit their bottom line at the expense of app developers and small businesses," said Facebook. "We continue to explore ways to address this concern."

As one course of action, Facebook is now showing its support for Fortnite maker Epic Games' antitrust lawsuit against Apple. Facebook said that it will be providing the court overseeing the case with information on how Apple's policies have adversely impacted Facebook and the people and businesses who rely on its platform.

In the meantime, Facebook has outlined steps that small businesses and other advertisers can take to prepare for Apple's anti-tracking change.

Article Link: Facebook Says Apple's Upcoming Anti-Tracking Prompt is 'More About Profit Than Privacy' and Backs Epic Games vs. Apple

I believe the question is not whether you like Facebook, or Epic Games. My concern here would be about who sees what you watch, what you walk, what or who you talk, your e-mails, your apps, what apps you used the most, etc. I can tell you the answer is not Facebook, or Epic. I believe the bigger fruit has more access to your data and clearly creates products and services based on it. I'm with Facebook on this one.

 

[Rochy Bay]

Love this kind of thinking. Facebook is bad because they provide a service I use for free, but they generate 99% of their income through advertising. Apple is good because I give them thousands and thousands of dollars for all my gadgets which become obsolete in a year, but they still had a ad platform which is not subject to any regulation. It's ok that Apple does it because they don't generate as much of their income from advertising as Facebook does. Damn do the cultists on here even stop and think about their rationalizations before they type them out?

Right, the bigger fruit doesn't track you at all...... 👀

 

[Unsupported]

Hmmm... I'm really undecided, somebody please advise me.

Which button should I press?

</sarc>

 

[ozzymo]

I'm not missing anything, because I didn't suggest what you're asking for proof of. Be realistic, most people have, or have been on social media of some kind. It's a "thing." No, nobody has forced you to use it, but it's natural to be curious about it, or to even appreciate what it does bring to your life. Over the years, Facebook has gotten more and more creepy about what they collect, what they build and store about you, and pretty awful about how they secure and store that information. It's reasonable for people to say "I'm sorry but this is too much." They can either leave, or they can demand that Facebook back off. Facebook doesn't have to listen, at which point, again, you have a choice to make.

Yes and if Facebook has gotten more creepy or aggressive with advertising then we as consumers have the choice to stop using their service. But no matter how creepy they get, anyone who continues to use their service with that knowledge then loses the right to complain. The best way to show Facebook you don't like their practices is to stop using the service then you will have no need to complain about your privacy. But if you continue to use Facebook in spite of their ever increasing creepiness, then all you have done is prove to them that no matter how bad they get you are addicted to posting and addicted to the likes so they can do whatever they want and will not lose you as a customer. Which is another choice people make as consumers.

 

[Rochy Bay]

I just love how mad Facebook is about this. Definitely shows Apple is on the right track.

The right track to create services analyzing your data and what apps you use the most. 👀😅

 

[ozzymo]

Is it turned on by default? Ive just checked an its turned off on my iPhone and I dint know the toggle existed until 5 min ago.

Yes it is turned on by default.

 

[MEJHarrison]

I can't believe there's 8 pages about Facebook. Forget about Facebook for the moment. There are other apps affected by this.

If I download some game that catches my eye, I should have the right to know if they're collecting my private information. Then I have the choice to continue or not.

If I have to download some silly app to take part in my family's Secret Santa thing, I deserve to know what information they're getting out of me to allow them to release their app for free.

If I'm downloading some random app, it's my right to know what information they're going to want in exchange, if any.

If you take Facebook out of the equation, this whole idea make perfect sense. You are giving me something, usually free. What are you asking for in return? Let ME decide if the actual price is acceptable or not. The current system of giving things away for "free", while the developer can then secretly suck up all your information without your knowledge, is completely unacceptable.

Facebook is trying to control this conversation. And they seem to be succeeding. 9 pages now about them, while missing the point entirely of what Apple is trying to accomplish here. People wouldn't be ok with downloading a free app, then having the developer take whatever they feel is fair payment from your bank account, without informing you. I don't know why that behavior is suddenly OK when you're talking about private data instead of actual currency.

 

[EVGabe]

This, among other things, is why I've been working for Apple for over 11 years. Facebook can go sit on a tall cactus.

 

[TrueBlou]

I so desperately want to stop reading this thread, but it’s just too addictive. Frankly I think we should be getting a pop-up at the start of the thread, warning of the addictive nature.

 

[ayale99]

Did I mention ayale99 personally? I'm pretty sure I did not. If you don't use Facebook then OBVIOUSLY I am not talking about you. I am talking about people who continue to use Facebook and then cry about advertising. Please try to sharpen your comprehension skills. Thanks

Did I mention ayale99 personally? I'm pretty sure I did not. If you don't use Facebook then OBVIOUSLY I am not talking about you. I am talking about people who continue to use Facebook and then cry about advertising. Please try to sharpen your comprehension skills. Thanks

What kind of gaslighting and goal post moving **** is this, Troll? You replied to a post and said "YOU". Who else would "YOU" be?

Again, I don't get people like you. You hate Apple so you come to an Apple forum to get snarky and complain about cultists. There are better uses of your time.

I'm not an Android fan, but I've never felt the narcissistic need to go to their forum and DECLARE my position to everyone all day. Get some fresh air and maybe some friends.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

If FB and the whiner is against it, it has to be good

 

[ozzymo]

I can't believe there's 8 pages about Facebook. Forget about Facebook for the moment. There are other apps affected by this.

If I download some game that catches my eye, I should have the right to know if they're collecting my private information. Then I have the choice to continue or not.

If I have to download some silly app to take part in my family's Secret Santa thing, I deserve to know what information they're getting out of me to allow them to release their app for free.

If I'm downloading some random app, it's my right to know what information they're going to want in exchange, if any.

If you take Facebook out of the equation, this whole idea make perfect sense. You are giving me something, usually free. What are you asking for in return? Let ME decide if the actual price is acceptable or not. The current system of giving things away for "free", while the developer can then secretly suck up all your information without your knowledge, is completely unacceptable.

Facebook is trying to control this conversation. And they seem to be succeeding. 9 pages now about them, while missing the point entirely of what Apple is trying to accomplish here. People wouldn't be ok with downloading a free app, then having the developer take whatever they feel is fair payment from your bank account, without informing you. I don't know why that behavior is suddenly OK when you're talking about private data instead of actual currency.

That's not the problem here. The only problem here is that when you open any of Apple's apps you get no popup or warning they Apple is collecting your data. You have to know to go into the settings by yourself and turn it off. If it's good for consumers to see the popup to have choice, then it should also be good to receive the same popup for Apple's own apps.

 

[ozzymo]

What kind of gaslighting and goal post moving **** is this, Troll? You replied to a post and said "YOU". Who else would "YOU" be?

Again, I don't get people like you. You hate Apple so you come to an Apple forum to get snarky and complain about cultists. There are better uses of your time.

I'm not an Android fan, but I've never felt the narcissistic need to go to their forum and DECLARE my position to everyone all day. Get some fresh air and maybe some friends.

I said people who use Facebook. I'm not your friend, we don't know each other personally. How would I know if you use Facebook or not. If someone uses Facebook and complains about it they are a hypocrite. I don't even know what gaslighting means, I'm not a hip young social justice warrior. I then explained that if you do not use Facebook then you are not a hypocrite. It's not hard to understand. Someone who uses a service then complains about that service and keeps using the service is, by definition, a hypocrite. If you are not using the service, then once again by definition, you are not a hypocrite.

 

[ayale99]

I said people who use Facebook. I'm not your friend, we don't know each other personally. How would I know if you use Facebook or not. If someone uses Facebook and complains about it they are a hypocrite. I don't even know what gaslighting means, I'm not a hip young social justice warrior. I then explained that if you do not use Facebook then you are not a hypocrite. It's not hard to understand. Someone who uses a service then complains about that service and keeps using the service is, by definition, a hypocrite. If you are not using the service, then once again by definition, you are not a hypocrite.

Again, I don't get people like you. You hate Apple so you come to an Apple forum to get snarky and complain about cultists. There are better uses of your time.

 

[m11rphy]

Yes it is turned on by default.

Can you explain why is wasn't on my iPhone then? I've only had a month so Im remember turning it off? Maybe its linked to when you set up the iPhone and you can select not to share analytics with apple? if that incase then apple after giving you a pop up to turn of target ads I guess

 

[MallardDuck]

Let's see if I can translate their complaint:

"The only way people will use our service is if they don't know how we're using and abusing their personal information. If you make people aware of how creepy we are, they'll stop using our platform."

The point against subscriptions being anti-consumer is bogus. People would still be free to use a 'paid with information' instead of 'paid with cash' option. The difference is that they'd be *informed*.

And the comparison with Apple is likewise bogus because we already got that prompt when we did the initial OS install - which covers all apple services and software.

 

[pmiles]

The sad reality is your activities are being tracked everyday by everyone whether you like it or not. You have a bank account? A credit card? Shop at a retail store? Eat at restaurants? Take public transportation? Use a phone? Play a video game? Watch TV? Shop for groceries? Pay taxes? Go to school? Drive a car? Surf the internet? Visit doctors? Own a home or rent? Hell they even track your birth and death.

Data data data... it's all being generated and it's all being parsed. And someone out there is paying money for all of it. It's been that way for decades... it's just more prevalent now than ever because there are more and more ways to gather such data.

Having to opt out of something that is inherently impossible to opt out of is an annoyance... not a sign that you have control over your privacy... because you don't.

Facebook is hypocritical to say the least... but they all are... THEY ALL ARE.