Facebook Says Apple's Upcoming Anti-Tracking Prompt is 'More About Profit Than Privacy' [Updated]

[theotherphil]

Read the post right above yours. Apple shows its own ads in its own apps.

I’ve just selected one of your many random posts here all saying broadly the same thing.

1) Facebook are selling your data to undisclosed 3rd parties without your knowledge or consent. You cannot opt out of this other than by not using their service.

2) Apple use your data, on device, using differential privacy techniques to either improve their products or services or to deliver ads to a group of broadly similar users. You are not tracked cross platform or cross applications. Your data is only ever used in an anonymised, aggregated form where you cannot be individually identified and is NOT SOLD to third parties.

 

[ozzymo]

Wow, really? What other commonly-known things do you guarantee I don't know? Say, that Apple doesn't track me across sites? No wait, I do know that. Do you know that?

And how do you know that. Oh let me guess? Because angel Apple tells you so. So if Facebook says he we don't track you, will you believe it? No of course not, your blind allegiance only applies to Apple.

 

[bobmans]

If Facebook was doing something they shouldn't be doing they would be banned from the Apple ecosystem. This is not about Facebook doing something wrong, this is about Apple giving consumers the choice. BUT, they will not apply that same choice to their apps. They don't want to give a popup on their apps, they want users to manually find the toggle in the settings. They know most people will never do that. $2B may not be a lot compared to the $2T Apple is worth. But it's still 2 billion reasons to not provide a popup on their own apps.

I give up, discussing this with you is pointless.

 

[ozzymo]

I’ve just selected one of your many random posts here all saying broadly the same thing.

1) Facebook are selling your data to undisclosed 3rd parties without your knowledge or consent. You cannot opt out of this other than by not using their service.

2) Apple use your data, on device, using differential privacy techniques to either improve their products or services or to deliver ads to a group of broadly similar users. You are not tracked cross platform or cross applications. Your data is only ever used in an anonymised, aggregated form where you cannot be individually identified and is NOT SOLD to third parties.

Yes the crux of my entire argument against Apple apologists. Its ok for Apple to track and target its users, just as long as they don't sell it to third parties because the only party they trust is Apple. All companies collect data on its users. Apple is no different. Apple makes $2B a year off that data. You can make all the excuses and rationalizations for Apple you want. They still collect data on users and target them with ads. They do not provide popups on their own apps because they are hoping most users will not go into the settings and turn off targeted advertising so they can continue to grow their advertising revenue.

 

[Nick05]

Facebook collects no data off me as I don't use it. And of course Apple supposedly cares about privacy because they make their money off of $1000 phones and $500 headphones. Not every company is Apple though. Facebook makes a service which obviously a huge portion of the world uses. They deserve to get paid just like Apple does. Not every company can be Apple and make high priced electronics and have the highest profit margins in the industry. Guess which company benefited the most off of Covid? Which companies value shot through the roof since Covid? Apple! Some companies provide services such as Facebook and Google and have to make money through advertising.

Facebook still makes money off advertising. This isn’t an ad blocking service. What you may not understand, since you don’t think Facebook collects any data off you, is that they do have a profile on you. This is the issue. It isn’t just Facebook users being tracked. Both google and facebook have tracking cookies on websites that track all you do and they use this to build a profile on you. They then use this profile to target you with personalized ads In which they charge businesses a premium for. It is likely that, even without a facebook account, that Facebook knows your name, address, age, contact info, and most of your interests. That is what this is about.

 

[ozzymo]

I give up, discussing this with you is pointless.

Because out of all the 100 posts I have made here, not one person can explain or rationalize this away: if choice for consumers is good then why does Apple not hold itself to the exact same standards it holds Facebook or Google to? Why can't Apple provide a popup on their apps like they do for everyone else? That would end this entire conversation.

 

[laptech]

The thing is, Facebook, Google, Twitter and everyone else for that matter using tracking for targeted advertising whilst very annoying and to the point invasive, it is not illegal (illegal to track and target children). Therefore I wonder if Facebook and all the others could make claims against Apple for interfering in another companies legal enterprise to the point of preventing it from being able to do it's job.

 

[ryanmp]

Because out of all the 100 posts I have made here, not one person can explain or rationalize this away: if choice for consumers is good then why does Apple not hold itself to the exact same standards it holds Facebook or Google to? Why can't Apple provide a popup on their apps like they do for everyone else? That would end this entire conversation.

Privacy

Apple products, including Apple Intelligence, are designed to protect your privacy, because privacy is a fundamental human right.

www.apple.com

Because its front and center. It is provided on an entire screen popup when you set up your iPhone. Apple bangs on about during literally every keynote they have. Why do we need another reminder from each of their apps.

 

[ozzymo]

Facebook still makes money off advertising. This isn’t an ad blocking service. What you may not understand, since you don’t think Facebook collects any data off you, is that they do have a profile on you. This is the issue. It isn’t just Facebook users being tracked. Both google and facebook have tracking cookies on websites that track all you do and they use this to build a profile on you. They then use this profile to target you with personalized ads In which they charge businesses a premium for. It is likely that, even without a facebook account, that Facebook knows your name, address, age, contact info, and most of your interests. That is what this is about.

I'm not just talking about advertising. Of course anyone can trivially install an ad blocker. I'm talking about tracking prevention. I have tracking prevention software installed on the router level on my network. I have all DNS queries on my network routed through my NAS which hosts adblocker and tracking prevention software. Of course Facebook, Google, and whatever other social media platforms try to track me, but it is blocked. I have standalone AdGuard software and tracking prevention on my Mac. So there is three levels of tracking prevention to get through. I can see everything that is blocked. Google tracking is blocked about every two seconds on my network. Never seen a Facebook tracking request on my network.

 

[theotherphil]

Yes the crux of my entire argument against Apple apologists. Its ok for Apple to track and target its users, just as long as they don't sell it to third parties because the only party they trust is Apple. All companies collect data on its users. Apple is no different. Apple makes $2B a year off that data. You can make all the excuses and rationalizations for Apple you want. They still collect data on users and target them with ads. They do not provide popups on their own apps because they are hoping most users will not go into the settings and turn off targeted advertising so they can continue to grow their advertising revenue.

I’d have no problem with Facebook only tracking me on their actual site, to improve their products or services or delivering ads targeted at a group of users...just like Apple.

I don’t want them tracking me across apps or sites or selling a personal profile of me to third parties without my consent. If they wanted to pay users every time their profile is monetised, then I would be up for that on an opt in basis. How hard is this to understand?

 

[ozzymo]

Privacy

Apple products, including Apple Intelligence, are designed to protect your privacy, because privacy is a fundamental human right.

www.apple.com

Because its front and center. It is provided on an entire screen popup when you set up your iPhone. Apple bangs on about during literally every keynote they have. Why do we need another reminder from each of their apps.

Yes privacy is such a fundamental human right for them that they make $2B a year and are on track to make $11B a year off of tracking and targeting their users. Come on. Any company can put up a nice motto like that. It doesn't mean anything. What are their actions.

 

[ozzymo]

I’d have no problem with Facebook only tracking me on their actual site, delivering ads targeted at a group of users. I don’t want them tracking me across apps or sites or selling a personal profile of me to third parties without my consent. If they wanted to pay me every time my profile is monetised, then I may be up for that. How hard is this to understand?

Like I mentioned. Why should they pay you anything, a penny, when you are using their service for free. You have never paid Facebook one single penny for all the posts you have made. They don't owe you anything. In fact, you the consumer owe them for a digital platform you use and find value in.

 

[bobmans]

Because out of all the 100 posts I have made here, not one person can explain or rationalize this away: if choice for consumers is good then why does Apple not hold itself to the exact same standards it holds Facebook or Google to? Why can't Apple provide a popup on their apps like they do for everyone else? That would end this entire conversation.

Read my previous answers, it explains it thoroughly.

It's the same reason why it's not going to popup on for example the Twitter App even though Twitter gives you personalized ads as well.
It's because Twitter does not track you on websites/applications not owned by Twitter.
It's because all the personalized ads on Twitter come from the data of your Twitter profile and not from random applications/websites where they have their cookies and plugins that send back the data you enter there to Twitter.

This has nothing to do with personalized ads based on user data gathered in-app, it has to do with gathering user-data outside the app (on random websites/applications for example).
Twitter doesn't do this, it's not getting the popup.
Apple doesn't do this, it's not getting the popup
Facebook does this, it's getting the popup.

 

[ryanmp]

Yes privacy is such a fundamental human right for them that they make $2B a year and are on track to make $11B a year off of tracking and targeting their users. Come on. Any company can put up a nice motto like that. It doesn't mean anything. What are their actions.

Can you read beyond the first sentence of that site?

 

[ozzymo]

Apple doesn't have $2 trillion in the bank. That is the worth of all the apple shares combined. It is COMPLETELY different than cash on hand.

Apple sells hardware and software. Apple makes a commission off of app/music/store sales.

No one is saying they are without fault, but choosing between Apple and FB to guard your privacy is like looking for babysitters and choosing between the high school girl next door who you know for a fact got a "C" in Calculus and Jason Vorhees. There is "maybe not always paying attention" and there is "murderous serial killer." MAybe that is a tough choice for you. For most of us, it isn't that hard.

Really? Every post on here is that Apple is perfect and its ok for them to track. They can track all they want and targets users because Apple is just, and righteous, and good. BUT the big but is no-one else can track because they aren't Apple. And yea they don't have $2T in the bank, fine they are worth over $2T and they use that net worth to get what they want from other companies.

 

[ComRadMac]

Someone who uses a service then complains about that service and keeps using the service is, by definition, a hypocrite.

No, they aren't. That is ridiculous, and you clearly do not know the definition of "hypocrite."

No one who uses any service is allowed to complain in any way about that service? GTFO of here, that is utter nonsense. There is nothing hypocritical about demanding better from any service you partake in. You're talking absolute nonsense, man.

FYI, "hypocrisy" in this situation would be me using Facebook while simultaneously demanding everyone else stop using Facebook. Complaining about a service you currently use is not hypocrisy in any way.

 

[MEJHarrison]

Do you use Facebook? I don't want to assume anything. But if you do, then it is definitely in your interests that Facebook survive and thrive. Do you use Gmail or Youtube. I'm sure everyone at least uses Youtube. It is in your interests that Youtube survive. Just because you don't like Facebook or any company for that matter, if you are using any of their services then it is in your best interests that they do survive. Of course Apple will survive, they sell $1000 cell phones. But there are other companies that don't make cell phones, but make digital platforms that the world over uses. So their survival is in everyone's interests.

I use MacRumors. I enjoy using MacRumors and it's probably my most visited site. So I voluntarily white list them in my ad blocking software. I wouldn't like to see them go away and I don't mind giving a little in return to do my part. That's a choice I voluntarily make.

I do use a few of those other services. And the same applies. If I feel passionate about that service, it should be MY option to support them or not. I've downloaded games and immediately deleted them again because of the ads. I've downloaded games and put up with the ads because the game was fun. I've downloaded games and paid to have ads removed because I wanted to support the developer. All my choice. Other internet services / apps shouldn't be any different. If you want my data, tell me you want my data BEFORE you just take it. Then it's up to me to accept their terms or not. No different than if I were paying with actual dollars. Simply having a business that supplies a product for free should not be justification for stealing data without permission.

Would you be ok with an app that takes money out of your bank account without telling you? Why is ok to replace "money" with "personal data" and "bank account" with "personal device"?

The smart people realize you rarely actually get something of value for free. I'll I'm asking for is to know what the real price actually is before I make my purchase. That's not an unfair request regardless of the "currency" I'm using to "pay" for the thing. The current model of "use our free thing and don't worry about what we're taking from you without your knowledge" doesn't sit well with me.

 

[ToqQrrl]

I give up, discussing this with you is pointless.

I agree with you ... I gave up earlier today ... this guy is a mental case ... a Real One !!!

For a guy that doesn’t use Facebook ... jeez ... I have never seen the likes of a guy defending Facebook like this ...

He HAS TO BE an employee of Facebook ... i’ts ridiculous ... this guy just won’t stop to get his post count up while saying anything to counter people’s arguments with anything in his arsenal of crappy logic !!!

Anyways ... Stay Safe People !

 

[Spongmincer]

Isn't this like the McCanns giving childcare advice?

Good one😔

 

[ozzymo]

Read my previous answers, it explains it thoroughly.

It's the same reason why it's not going to popup on for example the Twitter App even though Twitter gives you personalized ads as well.
It's because Twitter does not track you on websites/applications not owned by Twitter.
It's because all the personalized ads on Twitter come from the data of your Twitter profile and not from random applications/websites where they have their cookies and plugins that send back the data you enter there to Twitter.

This has nothing to do with personalized ads based on user data gathered in-app, it has to do with gathering user-data outside the app (on random websites/applications for example).
Twitter doesn't do this, it's not getting the popup.
Apple doesn't do this, it's not getting the popup
Facebook does this, it's getting the popup.

Yes so once again, let's try this again. So what righteous Apple is saying is that its ok for companies to track you as long as they don't do it across apps. Of course Apple is going to say that because they make a lot of money that way. It's a pretty self righteous stand to make though. Our way or tracking and targeting users is ok because its what we do. But don't do it any other way cause we don't like that.

 

[The Cappy]

Love this kind of thinking. Facebook is bad because they provide a service I use for free, but they generate 99% of their income through advertising. Apple is good because I give them thousands and thousands of dollars for all my gadgets which become obsolete in a year, but they still had a ad platform which is not subject to any regulation. It's ok that Apple does it because they don't generate as much of their income from advertising as Facebook does. Damn do the cultists on here even stop and think about their rationalizations before they type them out?

Wow. You bought an Apple gadget that became obsolete after only a year? Not that you're a liar but... in what way did it become obsolete? Did they stop doing OS updates? No. A thing isn't obsolete simply because you've got a fetish about having the latest generation device.

 

[jz0309]

I give up, discussing this with you is pointless.

I love the IGNORE feature on MR

 

[theotherphil]

Like I mentioned. Why should they pay you anything, a penny, when you are using their service for free. You have never paid Facebook one single penny for all the posts you have made. They don't owe you anything. In fact, you the consumer owe them for a digital platform you use and find value in.

I’m more than happy to pay for a service, in return for not having my personal information being sold without my consent or recompense. The problem here is I have no choice. There’s no subscription option....the entire business plan of FB is gathering as much data and selling it to third parties.

I’m saying that there are other options.

 

[ozzymo]

I agree with you ... I gave up earlier today ... this guy is a mental case ... a Real One !!!

For a guy that doesn’t use Facebook ... jeez ... I have never seen the likes of a guy defending Facebook like this ...

He HAS TO BE an employee of Facebook ... i’ts ridiculous ... this guy just won’t stop to get his post count up while saying anything to counter people’s arguments with anything in his arsenal of crappy logic !!!

Anyways ... Stay Safe People !

I'm not defending Facebook. I am calling out Apple. Apple is not some kind of messianic company. They are tracking and targeting their users for billions of dollars. Everyone likes to throw stones at not just Facebook but google and all the other social media companies. BUT they don't realize that they are using all those social media apps and video apps for free. BUT they gave thousands and thousands of their dollars away to Apple. So who's worse in this scenario. We are in the middle of a pandemic for almost all of 2020 and people are hurting financially. Apple charges $1000 for their phones, but Google and Facebook give you platforms you love to use FOR FREE. Apple lets you into their ecosystem after you part with thousands of dollars. Google and Facebook et all do it without touching your wallet. They just target you with ads. OH THE HUMANITY!

 

[Bustermd]

All I learned from 17 pages of this thread is that apparently Mark Zuckerberg has a MacRumors account and has nothing better to do than to argue with people on here all day.