Facebook Says Apple's Upcoming Anti-Tracking Prompt is 'More About Profit Than Privacy' [Updated]

[TVreporter]

I have a small business as a side job. When I post on Facebook from my business page Facebooks algorithms are setup so basically no one ever sees it, even if they have liked my page. They made this change a few years ago as a HUGE money grab. Don't even get me started on the way they treat small businesses on Instagram.

I can vouch for this - our company used to pay for additional promotion. They ended it back in July and now our posts aren’t showing up on people’s feeds right away, and overall traffic has plummeted. It’s like FB is punishing for not paying anymore.

Facebook has its own rules too - pot meet kettle.

 

[Apple_Robert]

One social media platform to rule them all. I think not. Facebook should be cast into the fires of Mount Doom for its evil hypocrisy and actions.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Isn’t it possible that however awful Facebook is they’re right that this is really about money for Apple?

Everything is about money for Apple. Everything.

 

[ozzymo]

The world loses nothing is Facebook is smashed to pieces.

Instagram will live on independently.

Other platforms will be used to advertise businesses.

Word of mouth. Review sites. Search engines. All these will still exist and help businesses.

But the world does benefit from smashing Facebook. No more manipulation and misinformation aimed at targeted individuals and populations.

The world loses nothing of value if Facebook goes under. They will lose the ability to post all their cleavage pics and all the foodie pics. Which in the world we currently live in, is of value to most of the population.

 

[TrueBlou]

Of course they can't track you to the same degree they can online. Unless there is a camera on your TV they can't see if its a man or woman watching their program. They can only try to target the expected demographic for a certain program.

And that’s completely impossible to do on the internet, based on the content you’re currently looking at, rather than who you are and what your age, sex, sexual preference, height, shoe size, location, income, colour of hair, skin tone.... you see where I’m going with this

 

[ozzymo]

One social media platform to rule them all. I think not. Facebook should be cast into the fires of Mount Doom for its evil hypocrisy and actions.

And one company to make all the decisions and to rule all. Hail Apple. Oh, but the fine print is, they will use that power to control all other companies, but not hold themselves to the same standards.

 

[ozzymo]

And that’s completely impossible to do on the internet, based on the content you’re currently looking at, rather than who you are and what your age, sex, sexual preference, height, shoe size, location, income, colour of hair, skin tone.... you see where I’m going with this

With targeted advertising, the ad companies know pretty much all of that information. And most of the information they have on people, is information people freely give away on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, etc etc etc.

 

[Lemon Olive]

I don’t understand how anyone would be ok with FB tracking their online presence through other apps. It’s one thing to use a service / app like FB and allow them to track your actions within the app, but to follow what you do in other apps is just wrong. And it would be different if this were the only bad thing FB is doing - instead of their serving up fake news and hate saying they have no responsibility for managing their users. I wish more people would recognize just how bad FB has become and stop using it.

I'm with you but...do me a favor, and demonstrate to me why anyone should care about facebook having their browser history. Not from the standpoint of, "they just shouldn't". Because that's 99% of the answers I get related to any privacy question.

What's the worst thing that can happen, realistically, as a result? This is 100% a serious question. And anyone is free to answer it. I'd just like to see what some people think is a realistic result (other than you receiving targeted ads vs generic ads) that justifies the consternation.

 

[bobmans]

Facebook collects no data off me as I don't use it.

They do, stop defending facebook.

This is how Facebook collects data on you even if you don’t have an account

There’s little you can do about it.

www.vox.com

Even if you’re not signed up, Facebook has a shadow profile for you

“Can someone who does not have a Facebook account opt out of data collection?”

www.theverge.com

None of your posts on this thread make any sense tbh.

Of course that has been discussed in length. The point is they don't tell you about that. My mom and grandma would never know to go into the settings to turn off that toggle. Apple is putting popups on all other apps to give users the ability to turn off tracking in the popup. They do not do that with their own apps. There is no popup or warning for Apple apps. They continue to track you in the background unless you manually go into the settings and turn it off.

The Apple advertising program does not track you across websites/apps regardless if you have Personalised Ads on or off. You don't need to track anyone across different websites/apps/etc to give personalized ads. Do you know what tracking is and do you know what this popup is even for?

You seem to think that this popup is for personalized ads, which it isn't. You can and will for example still receive personalized ads on Facebook based on your own Facebook profile data and the data gathered from you inside the facebook app. Your data entered on other applications/websites will just not be used anymore as it will no longer be tracked.

 

[ozzymo]

They do, stop defending facebook.

This is how Facebook collects data on you even if you don’t have an account

There’s little you can do about it.

www.vox.com

Even if you’re not signed up, Facebook has a shadow profile for you

“Can someone who does not have a Facebook account opt out of data collection?”

www.theverge.com

None of your posts on this thread make any sense tbh.

The Apple advertising program does not track you regardless if you have Personalised Ads on or off. You don't need to track anyone across different websites/apps/etc to give personalized ads. Do you know what tracking is?

Wait. So if Apple doesn't track you regardless then what is the purpose of that switch? Is it just for fun, Apple's UI programmers were bored that day. Apple makes $2B a year off of targeted advertising. Open your mind and stop defending Apple for everything they do. They track users and are on track to make $11B a year by 2025 off of targeted advertising.

Apple ad revenue could hit $11B a year by 2025 – JP Morgan - 9to5Mac

Apple ad revenue could grow more than five-fold by 2025, according to JP Morgan. The bank says that the opportunity is created by ...

9to5mac.com

 

[avatar77]

Nobody in Big Tech, or business in general, is out to help you. But here, it's easy to sort the good guy from the bad. Facebook, the anathema to democracy run by an unfeeling man with a big brain and no heart, vs. Apple, the big, expensive club we all pay through the nose to join, but at least feel like it's worth being part of.

 

[bobmans]

Wait. So if Apple doesn't track you regardless then what is the purpose of that switch? Is it just for fun, Apple's UI programmers were bored that day. Apple makes $2B a year off of targeted advertising. Open your mind and stop defending Apple for everything they do. They track users and are on track to make $11B a year by 2025 off of targeted advertising.

Apple ad revenue could hit $11B a year by 2025 – JP Morgan - 9to5Mac

Apple ad revenue could grow more than five-fold by 2025, according to JP Morgan. The bank says that the opportunity is created by ...

9to5mac.com

You seem to think that this popup is for personalized ads, which it isn't. You can and will for example still receive personalized ads on Facebook based on your own Facebook profile data and the data gathered from you inside the facebook app. Your data entered on other applications/websites will just not be used anymore as it will no longer be tracked.

You do not need to track anyone across websites/apps owned by other companies to give personalized ads.

The switch is to turn even the personalized ads off and has nothing to do with tracking across different companies/websites because Apple doesn't do that for your personalized ads.

 

[ozzymo]

Nobody in Big Tech, or business in general, is out to help you. But here, it's easy to sort the good guy from the bad. Facebook, the anathema to democracy run by an unfeeling man with a big brain and no heart, vs. Apple, the big, expensive club we all pay through the nose to join, but at least feel like it's worth being part of.

There is no good guy v bad. Apple is not a good guy. Apple is a $2T company that making money is their #1 and only priority. Facebook is a company that wants to make money above all else also. See the difference. Because there really isn't any. Apple likes to virtue signal so their users don't focus on the stuff they do like targeted advertising.

 

[needsomecoffee]

Apple does not track you. They put you into a segment with 4,999 other users and track that segment. Of course they put you into many other segments, and track your existence in all those segments. Someone did an interesting experiment with FBook using a spouses information such as college attended, interests, etc. By stacking enough FBook segments, the ad buyer was able to target an ad only to the spouse. Bought the ad, saw it appear on the spouse's feed, and confirmed only one ad was sold. So yeah, Apple does not track you, just the many segments you exist in.

While casting shade with the implication above, it is very unlikely Apple or and ad buyer really cares about your personal ID. They care about the segments available, and the "look-alike" feature FBook offers. Not sure if Apple's Ad Buyer offers look-alikes, but if (or when they do), then it really will not matter if they track you individually. They will have a big opportunity to walk thru FBook's revenue door. Obviously FBook is not going to be happy.

 

[ozzymo]

You seem to think that this popup is for personalized ads, which it isn't. You can and will for example still receive personalized ads on Facebook based on your own Facebook profile data and the data gathered from you inside the facebook app. Your data entered on other applications/websites will just not be used anymore as it will no longer be tracked.

You do not need to track anyone across websites/apps owned by other companies to give personalized ads.

Ok so your distinction is Apple is good because they don't track you across other websites. They do track you, but it's ok because they don't track you across other websites. Then just come out and state your rationalization for why Apple is an angel.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Interesting theory. Decades and centuries of advertising, long before our personal data was for sale or computers existed, would seem to indicate otherwise.

Still, assuming you're correct and these modern day ad companies can't survive in this new reality, I should care because...??? Why is it my responsibility to ensure these companies thrive?

Because you consume their content.

What other businesses out there are expecting me to "do my thing" so they can stay in business?

Literally all of them. If you don't function as part of society, businesses can't exist.

Why are they entitled to my private data if I don't wish them to have it in the first place?

What private data is that? Your email address? That's about as private as the number on the front of your house. You give up tons of information on a regular basis in exchange for services, so much so that it can hardly be argued that any of it is even "private" data.

If today's companies have forgotten how to market without private information, a new company will come along and figure it out. They may not be as profitable, but that's just one more thing in the "not my problem" bucket.

These are the kind of ridiculous logical fallacies that can sink society. "I want things a certain way, businesses can just figure it out, and helping them figure it out is not my problem, and if they don't succeed it's also not my problem."

 

[ozzymo]

Apple does not track you. They put you into a segment with 4,999 other users and track that segment. Of course they put you into many other segments, and track your existence in all those segments. Someone did an interesting experiment with FBook using a spouses information such as college attended, interests, etc. By stacking enough FBood segments, the ad buyer was able to target an ad only to the spouse. Bought the ad, saw it appear on the spouse's feed, and confirmed only one ad was sold. So yeah, Apple does not track you, just the many segments you exist in.

While casting shade with the implication above, it is very unlikely Apple or and ad buyer really cares about your personal ID. They care about the segments available, and the "look-alike" feature FBook offers. Not sure if Apple's Ad Buyer offers look-alikes, but if (or when they do), then it really will not matter if they track you individually. They will have a big opportunity to walk thru FBook's revenue door. Obviously FBook is not going to be happy.

This is just rationalization for why its ok for Apple to track you, but no one else. Wow people on here would give Apple the keys to their house and let them come through and look through whatever they want because they are Apple and Apple is all knowing and all good. But if another company tries to track you at all, then everyone loses it and that company is evil.

 

[theotherphil]

Here’s an option....pay each user of the platform every time their data is monetised. Those that want to be tracked in this way can be, but they are compensated fairly. In 2020, metadata is extremely valuable - just not to those generating it.

 

[bobmans]

Ok so your distinction is Apple is good because they don't track you across other websites. They do track you, but it's ok because they don't track you across other websites. Then just come out and state your rationalization for why Apple is an angel.

You clearly don't even know what tracking is.

Read up the definition of tracking.

Tracking​

(ˈtrækɪŋ)
n
1. the act or process of following something or someone

 

[ozzymo]

Here’s an option....pay each user of the platform every time their data is monetised. Those that want to be tracked in this way can be, but they are compensated fairly. In 2020, metadata is extremely valuable - just not to those generating it.

Huh? Why should they pay you when you are using their service free of charge? That's ridiculous. Facebook developed and maintains a digital platform that everyone uses for free. Saying they should start paying people to use their free service is some of the craziest talk I have ever heard.

 

[ozzymo]

You clearly don't even know what tracking is.

Read up the definition of tracking.

What? Yes I don't understand your mental gymnastics to rationalize for Apple. APPLE DOES TRACK ITS USERS. They make over $2B a year on tracking its users. Come on. Open your eyes and open your mind.

 

[needsomecoffee]

This is just rationalization for why its ok for Apple to track you, but no one else. Wow people on here would give Apple the keys to their house and let them come through and look through whatever they want because they are Apple and Apple is all knowing and all good. But if another company tries to track you at all, then everyone loses it and that company is evil.

I meant to infer that Apple has no problem isolating you as an individual if they have enough "segment information" about you. Not sure if they do, or if they are motivated to do so, but if they want really granular IDs, they should be easy to get while still being able to make their public claims. Sorry of that was not clear.

 

[nitramluap]

The only 'great savior' on here is Apple. Like tricking people into thinking they are exposing Facebook, but actually they are still hiding their own targeted advertising practices.

Not at all. Apple's 'advertising practices' are transparent and you can opt out... PLUS the advertising in Apps using Apple's adverting identifier is indeed private:

Legal - Apple Advertising & Privacy- Apple

Data & Privacy

support.apple.com

And if people weren't such cheapskates and would fork out a few dollars for an App, most developers wouldn't even need to include them.

 

[ozzymo]

Apple isn't being paid $2B a year for nothing. They are being paid that money through targeted advertising. They are ramping up that targeted advertising and are on track to make $11B a year by 2025. It's not hard to follow the logic.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Do you use Facebook? I don't want to assume anything. But if you do, then it is definitely in your interests that Facebook survive and thrive. Do you use Gmail or Youtube. I'm sure everyone at least uses Youtube. It is in your interests that Youtube survive. Just because you don't like Facebook or any company for that matter, if you are using any of their services then it is in your best interests that they do survive. Of course Apple will survive, they sell $1000 cell phones. But there are other companies that don't make cell phones, but make digital platforms that the world over uses. So their survival is in everyone's interests.

I'm not sure that the survival of Facebook or Twitter or YouTube is in anyone's interest. These 3 websites have managed to take what used to be a wide and diverse internet nearly free from censorship...and funnel 99% of traffic and attention through these portals, which they now govern according on their own agendas. We've gotten to a point now where these sites are the Internet, and they take on the role of controlling what people can or cannot see. They can manipulate any content to appear popular or unpopular, agreeable or disagreeable. No one can have any concept of what is really true or untrue when it is entirely agenda driven.

I see no downside in all 3 of these entities disappearing, and I also see no chance of that ever happening. No one gives up that kind of power easily.