FaceID health effects

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by joeblow7777, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. joeblow7777 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    #1
    Okay, don't all come running at me with pitch forks and torches, and fitting me for a tinfoil hat. Please hear me out for just a moment.

    There have been questions in other threads regarding whether FaceID, which works by projecting an array of infrared dots over your face, including your eyes, can in any way have negative long term effects. Most people have been dismissive of such concerns, and perhaps rightfully so.

    But I figured there's no harm in having a dedicated thread where we can look see what scientific information is out there. I've come across a few papers so far:

    https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article-abstract/35/1/1/170395
    This paper is about workers who are exposed to much stronger IR radiation that what FaceID would possibly emit (emitted from heat sources like molten steel).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3116568/
    This one looks at the effects of less intense sources.

    https://saunaspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Radiation-effects-on-the-eye.pdf
    This article seems to also suggest that more intense sources are needed to cause harm.
     
  2. serialiphoneuser macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    #2
    Any person who cares about their vision should turn off Face-ID. Will you complain to Apple once you start seeing dark spots or colors in vision? What can they do? the damage is irreversible.
     
  3. Starfyre macrumors 68030

    Starfyre

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2010
    #3
    Time and time again I've had to rid the fears of people afraid of microwaving their brains with longer-than-visible-light IR wavelengths. It's almost as if this should be a sticky... let's make the community smarter!
     
  4. Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    #4
    Also don’t go in the sun, don’t use cell phones, don’t drive in a car or leave your house, don’t eat foods from any means other than your own growing and/or killing.
     
  5. titrau macrumors 65816

    titrau

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    #5
    Everyday we looking to iphone screen and ipad screen already cause little issue but we dont know what will happeninb long term later so who care for that >>>

    Life isnt beautiful all time ...
    Enjoin whatever right now you get:)
     
  6. joeblow7777 thread starter macrumors 603

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    Sep 7, 2010
    #6
    This comment doesn’t contribute anything to the conversation. What are you basing this statement on?

    This comment doesn’t help either. Making the community smarter is exactly what I’m hoping to do. Let’s look at this as scientists. What research and empirical evidence can we gather, putting aside conclusions that we’ve already drawn. I’ve tried to get the ball rolling with three separate articles very specifically look at effects of IR light on optic tissue and specific regions of the eye. They do address the question of what cells are affected by longer wavelengths and why, if you actually bother to take a look. There’s at least enough there to justify the hypothesis that IR radiation can under certain conditions be harmful to human eyes. So now let’s see if we can verify that FaceID does not and cannot meet those conditions. In other words, refute the hypothesis. You know, basic scientific method. It’s more effective at making people smarter than just saying, “I’m right. The end.”
     
  7. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

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    May 21, 2012
    #7
    It’s a valid question. Hopefully there is more hard data rather than assumptions and speculation over the next few months.
     
  8. joeblow7777 thread starter macrumors 603

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    Sep 7, 2010
    #8
    Well, that’s what I’m looking into, and hoping that others will help. It’s hard because most people come with a preconceived conclusion. We all want to believe that this technology is safe. Therefore, there’s a bias towards information that supports that idea.
     
  9. protoxx macrumors 6502a

    protoxx

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    #9
    If you are concerned with infrared radiation you should never go outside. I would suggest finding someplace near absolute zero to be on the safe side.

    On the other hand if you are ugly enough for cameras to break if they take a picture of you that you should keep the camera on the phone at enough of a distance to avoid fragments from the shattering lens.
     
  10. Relentless Power macrumors Penryn

    Relentless Power

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    #10
    I imagine there will be studies conducted once the iPhone X releases. But I imagine those studies will be while before any pertinent information is released.
     
  11. pat500000 Suspended

    pat500000

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    #11
    I don't know. I mean, Apple executives have been rocking iphone x for awhile....unless they are blind. Hmm...maybe that's why face id didn't recognize craig. On serious note: people should be fine otherwise apple would be in deep situation.
     
  12. x-evil-x macrumors 601

    x-evil-x

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    #12
    we'll all get back to you in 40 years when we know what technology is doing for us in the long term.
    Nobody knows and expecting people to answer this should of been common sense.
     
  13. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    #13
    That’s not a joke. We have no idea what half the tech in our lives will do to us over then span of a lifetime.

    Expect some revelations to be revealed over the next 30-50 years on many things we might find uncomfortable.
     
  14. x-evil-x macrumors 601

    x-evil-x

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    #14
    I know its not. The joke is believing somebody on the forums can answer that question accurately. We dont know is the best answer
     
  15. joeblow7777 thread starter macrumors 603

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    Sep 7, 2010
    #15
    I’m not really looking for an answer. I know there’s no answer. I was just intending for this thread to be an open minded discussion based on whatever information is out there. I shared what I’ve found, but no one has actually responded to that or shared anything in kind, so I guess my intentions weren’t clear or this thread was a dumb idea all along. :oops:
     
  16. Jrd123 Suspended

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    #16
    You do know your phone already communicates to the cell tower via microwave radiation, right?! Its about the magnitude of the frequency and the dot projector is no where near strong enough to be harmful. You people are illiterate.
     
  17. willmtaylor macrumors G4

    willmtaylor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Location:
    Here(-ish)
    #17
    I thought it was established that this thread would be based on facts? You provided none.

    Responses such as yours add nothing but confusion and emotions without cause.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 4, 2017 ---
    Why not cite Apple directly on the matter?

    Safety
    iPhone and the TrueDepth camera system have been thoroughly tested and meet international safety standards. The TrueDepth camera system is safe to use under normal usage conditions. The system will not cause any harm to eyes or skin, due to its low output. It's important to know that the infrared emitters could be damaged during repair or disassembly, so your iPhone should always be serviced by Apple or an authorized service provider. The TrueDepth camera system incorporates tamper-detection features. If tampering is detected, the system may be disabled for safety reasons.

    When viewed through certain types of cameras, you may notice light output from the TrueDepth camera. This is expected as some cameras may detect infrared light. Some may also notice a faint light output from the TrueDepth camera when viewed in a very dark room. This is expected in extremely dark settings.
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208108
     
  18. Absrnd macrumors 6502a

    Absrnd

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    Apr 15, 2010
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    Flatland
    #18
    Good informative thread, but useless for must critics until Apple releases the specifics of their IR dot projector.
     
  19. danniexi, Oct 4, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017

    danniexi macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    #19
    The effects of IR, especially from such a low output source like the TrueDepth Camera, is as significant as pointing an old TV remote to your face. It has absolutely no effect.

    IR is part of the electromagnetic spectrum (radio, UV, visible light, microwaves, IR, X-rays). Everything around us emits IR. Your body emits IR. The incandescent light bulbs in your house? 10% light and the rest is infrared. The sun? 50% light, 50% IR. IR is unnoticed to the body except through the sensation of heat. That's basically what infrared is to the human body. Heat.

    The TrueDepth camera in iPhone X basically uses a dot projector, meaning it will emit tiny IR dots to the face and the IR scanner reads those dots to mathematically calculate a facial image. Unless that dot projector is capable of emitting so much IR that it starts to burn your face (before it actually starts melting the glass on your phone), you'll be fine.

    If you really are afraid of infrared radiation, then live in an environment at absolute zero.
     
  20. rambo47 macrumors 6502a

    rambo47

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    Oct 3, 2010
    Location:
    Denville, NJ
    #20
    The real danger is in having your picture taken. It steals your soul!
     
  21. DNichter macrumors G3

    DNichter

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    #21
    I don't think Face ID will be any marginal increase over the possible damage we experience currently.
     
  22. iMi macrumors 65816

    iMi

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    #22
    I would be far more concerned about the radio waves coming from the cellular antenna...
     
  23. danniexi macrumors 6502

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    Jan 7, 2012
    #23
    [​IMG]

    Apple was very clear about this and even showed it in the promo video. What do you think is actually powering the A11 chip?
     
  24. madgalaxy macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
    #24
    Crossing the street can be bad for my health as well. The world is full of dangers, the iPhone X's FaceID is the LEAST of my worries.
     
  25. Gathomblipoob macrumors 601

    Gathomblipoob

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    #25
    So, none of us smoke, drink, or wolf down fast food?

    I'd worry about the things we voluntarily do to ourselves before tackling "ir dots."
     

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103 October 3, 2017