Apple sells premium products at a premium price, I think we can all agree on this. When 3rd party companies develop accessories for these products they're continuing with the "Premium Price" aspect. If you're buying a $1,000 MBA, they're seeing it as you'll likely spent $100 on a dock, specific to your MBA, rather than buying a $400 HP Laptop. Element is going off of the "we can charge a premium price for your to accessorize your iPhone". $150 for a case? If it is as good as it's marketed, you're opening yourself up for cheaper companies to come in and create knock offs. In a case like this, there are people that are willing to drop $150 on a case, and there are people that are willing to drop $30 on a knock off, I fall into the latter. In cases like this, for me, at least, I don't think the knock off vendor is stealing business from Element, mainly because, I would never intend to spend $150 for a case, so at this point, i'm not a potential customer of Element. $30 for a similar, near identical piece, possibly. If anything the knock off cases are hurting other companies with cheaper cases. Look at Otterbox, their cases were premium priced for a long time, now you can pick them up for $20-$30 on Amazon. Just because you're making something that goes with an Apple product, doesn't mean you should be trying to create the illusion of matching value as said Apple product.
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Fake products - why do you support the sellers?
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Locking the "Fake" thread - just as they most certainly would lock a thread reviewing fake iPhones - would eliminate the double standard currently prevailing here. It would be doing the right thing.
It's one thing to discuss counterfeiting as an issue. That's free speech.
But it's entirely different matter to provide a forum for people to get together and compare notes on how to buy counterfeit products. That 's wrong. And it doesn't matter whether it's an Apple product or something else.
billycuth said:
Locking the "Fake" thread - just as they most certainly would lock a thread reviewing fake iPhones - would eliminate the double standard currently prevailing here. It would be doing the right thing.
It's one thing to discuss counterfeiting as an issue. That's free speech.
But it's entirely different matter to provide a forum for people to get together and compare notes on how to buy counterfeit products. That 's wrong. And it doesn't matter whether it's an Apple product or something else.
it may be morally wrong, but it's not illegal and it certainly is not against the TOS.
I'm sorry you take this issue so personal, but people wouldn't buy cheap fakes if they could afford the real thing. Element case needs to learn to adapt to the market place if they don't want to lose business.
Of course not. If you can't see the difference between jail breaking and counterfeiting, then there's not much any of us can do for you. Just pay closer attention and you'll catch up.
No dilemma there. Unless the store brand decides to call itself "Cheerios."
But that's the rub, of course. It's fine to make a cheap aluminum iPhone case. But to make one that looks just like a Vapor and bears the "Element" name, but in fact isn't genuine, is counterfeiting. And selling them in the US is illegal.
But you already knew that.
It actually is illegal to sell counterfeit products in the US - no matter where they are made.
And there's nothing "personal" about it. I really don't expect to change many minds here. Folks who support piracy - like folks who support other forms of illegal activity - always have endless rationalizations for their conduct.
It's more the tacit condoning of it by this website that bothers me. I've seen moderators admonish copyright infringement. For example, when a poster in the Wallpaper thread asks someone to remove a watermark or copyright from an image. That's as it should be.
But why, then, the silence when a thread goes on for over 2000 posts where people get together and compare notes on how and where to buy counterfeit Element Vapor Pro cases? It's just a weird - and, I think, risky - double standard that I find troubling.
Perhaps the folks who run this place just haven't thought about it. I hope that's the case. Not sure how they could justify it otherwise.
The Samsung Galaxy costs the exact same amount on contract as the iPhone. As does most higher end Androids.
The iPhone itself is made in China as well as all other Apple products. I don't think this means anything for people buying Apple products.
There is already another pointless thread about this topic, but the answer is pretty simple to the op; most people nowadays are morally bankrupt. It doesn't matter to them whether it's right or wrong. All they care about is saving their own money and since there is no risk of being penalized, fined or arrested, the fact that it is morally wrong is an insignificant factor to them.
These are the same type of morally bankrupted people we (USA) elect to run our bankrupt country. Lol. Personal and fiscal responsibility, as well as and more importantly morality, are vanishing, rare qualities nowadays. The End Times are here.
These are the same type of morally bankrupted people we (USA) elect to run our bankrupt country. Lol. Personal and fiscal responsibility, as well as and more importantly morality, are vanishing, rare qualities nowadays. The End Times are here.
Then buy an authentic product that isn't overpriced. Don"t pretend to buy something you're not willing to pay for.
For one, I think most people don't know brands of phone cases (I don't usually go in the accessories forum). I read multiple tech blog on a daily basis and own and iPhone and didn't know of the Vapor Pro. So if I found a knock off in a shop I wouldn't know it's a fake, I would just assume it's a cheap aluminium case. I'm not sure what types of fakes you're talking about, but in my mind, if it's a machined aluminium case without any branding it's a non-issue. It's not like they invented aluminium casses. I remember some DIY cases for old iPods.
If they are exact copies with the same branding and everything, I think that's unfortunate. But it's something we see with every luxury items. Dre Beats, Louis Vuitton bags... the price it bears comes from a completely artificial value of the brand. I'm not sure in what volume they make those cases, but the process can be quite labour intensive if you intend on making it well and at low volumes, somewhat justifying the 150$ price tag. But as others have said, why bother putting a 150$ on a 200$ phone?
I think the true question is: Is it stealing if you don't intend to buy the real thing? My initial reaction would be that yes you're harming the company. As much as I hate to say this, these luxury brand stride on only the elite having their items. Some random chick working at mcdee's with a Louis Vuitton bag is not what their going for, and might make the real item less desirable to potential legit buyers. Interesting question, especially if you change the variables to say an item that usually costs say 4000 but can be had for 50. Or products that are essentially based on another product.
If they are exact copies with the same branding and everything, I think that's unfortunate. But it's something we see with every luxury items. Dre Beats, Louis Vuitton bags... the price it bears comes from a completely artificial value of the brand. I'm not sure in what volume they make those cases, but the process can be quite labour intensive if you intend on making it well and at low volumes, somewhat justifying the 150$ price tag. But as others have said, why bother putting a 150$ on a 200$ phone?
I think the true question is: Is it stealing if you don't intend to buy the real thing? My initial reaction would be that yes you're harming the company. As much as I hate to say this, these luxury brand stride on only the elite having their items. Some random chick working at mcdee's with a Louis Vuitton bag is not what their going for, and might make the real item less desirable to potential legit buyers. Interesting question, especially if you change the variables to say an item that usually costs say 4000 but can be had for 50. Or products that are essentially based on another product.
Lol I don't get people. If you can't afford it then you're not meant to have it. If you don't want to spend the money on it then don't buy it! It's the same principle as designer bags. LV for example. What do you think when you see a chick with a fake lv bag? Is it hot? or do you say wow thats tacky. I'm not defending the high prices, personally 150 for a case is high and I would never pay it. (I got mine as a present). Obviously phone accessories isn't on the level of a handbag or a watch. But SAME PRINCIPLE.
There's a guy in the fake vapor thread that tried telling me "if you can get the same quality for a cheaper price why not? It's a stupid case..." Because first of all the fake quality will NEVER be the same. Second its a luxury item... not everyone is meant to have one. If everyone had one then it wouldn't be special or exclusive. (which it isn't now because of all these people buying fake cases). That same guy prolly bought a real diamond ring for his wife. uhhh why not just buy lab made rocks at a fraction of the price and the average joe has no way of telling the difference? But supporters of fakes will never understand.... they just want good stuff without paying for it.
Please do not use money as an excuse for buying a fake... thats just lame. Save up for it, work harder... lots of people do just that. honestly i dont even have a problem with people buying fakes... its the goofballs that go around saying "LOL at all the idiots buying real stuff! I got mine for way cheaper from china and it rox! LAwlz!" For the last time STOP BEING SO TACKY! If you can't afford to drop 150 for a toy then maybe a smartphone with a 70 dollar a month bill isn't for you. stick to a regular phone with fido's cheapest package.
Something to keep in mind... these aren't imitations. These are EXACT REPLICAS. Not cool. Any handbag works as well as an LV or Gucci. But theres a reason people buy the nice stuff.... luxury item. And that's exactly what an element is.
Does Maybach also have to learn how to adapt to the market place so everyone can afford cruise one?
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Lol I don't get people. If you can't afford it then you're not meant to have it. If you don't want to spend the money on it then don't buy it! It's the same principle as designer bags. LV for example. What do you think when you see a chick with a fake lv bag? Is it hot? or do you say wow thats tacky. I'm not defending the high prices, personally 150 for a case is high and I would never pay it. (I got mine as a present). Obviously phone accessories isn't on the level of a handbag or a watch. But SAME PRINCIPLE.
There's a guy in the fake vapor thread that tried telling me "if you can get the same quality for a cheaper price why not? It's a stupid case..." Because first of all the fake quality will NEVER be the same. Second its a luxury item... not everyone is meant to have one. If everyone had one then it wouldn't be special or exclusive. (which it isn't now because of all these people buying fake cases). That same guy prolly bought a real diamond ring for his wife. uhhh why not just buy lab made rocks at a fraction of the price and the average joe has no way of telling the difference? But supporters of fakes will never understand.... they just want good stuff without paying for it.
Please do not use money as an excuse for buying a fake... thats just lame. Save up for it, work harder... lots of people do just that. honestly i dont even have a problem with people buying fakes... its the goofballs that go around saying "LOL at all the idiots buying real stuff! I got mine for way cheaper from china and it rox! LAwlz!" For the last time STOP BEING SO TACKY! If you can't afford to drop 150 for a toy then maybe a smartphone with a 70 dollar a month bill isn't for you. stick to a regular phone with fido's cheapest package.
Something to keep in mind... these aren't imitations. These are EXACT REPLICAS. Not cool. Any handbag works as well as an LV or Gucci. But theres a reason people buy the nice stuff.... luxury item. And that's exactly what an element is.
Does Maybach also have to learn how to adapt to the market place so everyone can afford cruise one?
I have no problem dropping $150 for a toy.
I have a major problem dropping $150 for a thin piece of painted aluminum like it is gold or something.
And of course the quality of the fake will be inferior, but if it costs almost 1/10 of the price of the original it's a risk I am willing to take.
You, like others seem to be taking this personally, when you aren't even the one being affected. And I never called anyone dumb for buying an original at full price or 10% off or anything of the sort. If that's how you want to spend your money, so be it. I don't see an Element Case, as nice as the design is, as being worth any more than maybe $50-$75 of my hard earned money. Now, maybe if they drop the price, I will buy one. For now, that seems very unlikely as the price has done nothing but go up since the product was created.
I understand everyone's point about hating counterfeiting, especially when, as you say they are exact replicas (however with probably massively inferior quality). But I don't understand the vitriol towards the buyers. If free markets provide an alternative to an outrageously overprice luxury item, people are going to buy it. The quality is nothing like the original, and people know this going in. So Element can't really be losing business if these people would never buy one at their price point to begin with. It's not like copying and selling a motion picture where you are getting exactly the same thing for free. It's paying a smaller price, getting an inferior product and living with that result. Heck, in some cases (pardon the pun) the knock off Element Cases are horrid. They're awful.
But at $22, you can through it away.
I remember when Element Cases first came out and they had major design flaws. Didn't stop them from charging their seriously high prices.
I will tell you who I have a major problem with - the ebay sellers pawning the fakes off as real and selling them to unsuspecting customers for Element's premium price. At least ordering directly from China, I know what I am getting. For that very reason, acquiring a second-hand Element Case is nearly impossible - and that is an unintended consequence. But if you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the makers and sellers of the counterfeit objects - not the buyers. It's just silly. Because at the end of the day, you're never going to be able to get everyone to just stop buying them. Everywhere you go, in every industry - this happens. Doesn't make it right, but you can't really blame buyers for taking advantage of it.
Because supporting counterfeiters stifles innovation. Take the Element example. People want aluminum cases, but aluminum badly degrades phone reception. Dozens of case designs out there are failures because of this problem. So Element comes up with a way to solve the reception problem with a case that still looks great. You don't know how much they invested to solve that problem, how many designs they tried before they hit on the solution or how much time and money it cost them to do it. Don't they have a right recoup their investment, to benefit from their innovation? How likely are they, or other innovators, to invest next time if a bunch of knuckleheads support counterfeiters who are stealing their good work?
In the end, folks who support counterfeiters are just poseurs. Folks who like to pretend they have something they really don't.
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Finally we have a thread on this and to be honest I think all threads involved fake products should be shutdown if this is to be a true Mac forum. Makes no sense to support fake products when what you are paying for is the design/innovation most of the time.
China is famous for reverse engineering NOT innovation. Until something real happens then China will be a constant threat to the world. Support them now, but just know that its your children and their children that will suffer greatly from that support.
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Are you that ignorant? By buying the fake cases you are supporting the business of fake products. 10% of China's GDP is from fake products. Take it away and what do you get? A lot more jobs for American people/workers. I pray the next president has the balls to bring jobs home and inject some more nationalism into the life of the economy.
China is famous for reverse engineering NOT innovation. Until something real happens then China will be a constant threat to the world. Support them now, but just know that its your children and their children that will suffer greatly from that support.
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Are you that ignorant? By buying the fake cases you are supporting the business of fake products. 10% of China's GDP is from fake products. Take it away and what do you get? A lot more jobs for American people/workers. I pray the next president has the balls to bring jobs home and inject some more nationalism into the life of the economy.
In the end, your opinion is wrong. At least as it relates to me (thanks for the personal attack though).
No, I bought a cheap knock off case because I refuse to buy the real thing because it is outrageously overpriced, but I want the look.
I don't care if people think I have the real thing or not - it's not about that at all. It's about having the look I want at a price I think is reasonable.
Sure, I could go with a different "authentic" product in the aluminum case world that's inherently cheaper, but I like Element's design. I don't buy things because I care what other people think of what I have - whether I purchased a knock off or a real genuine article. I pick and choose where I want to spend my money and I do it wisely. Doesn't make me a poser - because I am not trying to be something I am not. I could certainly afford an Element Case on my salary, but I am frugal and choose not to. You're entitled to your opinion of me on that, but it doesn't matter. At the end of the day I have done nothing illegal.
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That's entirely true, I don't. But I do know there are countless "victims" to element case's early designs who bought a product that didn't work as element had promised and got shafted - even though they paid the premium price. I'm sorry you think "innovation" of a thin piece of aluminum is worthy of the prices Element Case charges for theirs. I don't buy it. They outstrip their closest aluminum case competitor by far when it comes to price. So I have no problem buying a knock off - especially if that knock off is less than perfect.
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Sure we do. But each of us also gets to decide what we think is right, unless it goes against the law.
It's great that you are perfect and do everything the right way. We should all aspire to be like you.
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I don't generally discuss things with people who feel the need to levy personal attacks. Have a nice day.