Fake products - why do you support the sellers?

[barachus]

I would never buy an element case for $150, but i might take a punt on $30 knockoff, so either way Element are not losing anything from my lack of custom.
If the knockoff didnt exist i just wouldnt buy the case, so i dont see how i am hurting Element or destroying innovation and the economy

 

[billycuth]

not that this is going to change people's minds, but... Here's a review on the white Vapor Pro (authentic). And it blows my mind. It's titled "Worth the money if you can swing it"

Personally I was searching for the perfect case for a very long time and when I saw this one, it seemed like it had all the features that I had been looking for in a phone case.

1. I wanted something extremely tough that would really protect my phone against most or all damage.
2. Not too rubbery so it wouldnt stick inside my pockets.
3. Headphones jack needed to be at least big enough for Bose In-Ears audio jack.
4. They cant be too bulky and thick because the IPhone is real thin and I like that.

This case was definitely too expensive but then again they're is not many cases that compare to this case. All of these things listed above were put together in this case. Very well made, I took it apart for the first time to clean out dust and what not and screws are all still perfect and threads in body are perfect as well.

Its a white one and its losing some paint here and there but I expected that, also the back is getting quite dirty but that was also expected. I will probably get one of the hard back plates when I replace it but I do really like the back skin that it came with. All in all I love this case but it is definitely not for everyone because of the price. I got mine for like 80-90 so make sure you are not ordering it from them for like 140 or anything.

Are you kidding me? It's worth $150, but the paint is chipping off and you expected that? WTH?

----------

here's a fake that's not a total rip off:

http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Meta..._15?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1327950509&sr=1-15

 

[IXDoubleDXI]

We sell a fair amount of Authentic Element Cases, we do not sell any of the counterfeits but i am sure the counterfeit sales online outnumber the authentic.

I'm sure counterfeit bulk sales might outnumber Authentic, for those looking to turn around and make some $ off them, but if you're talking about the majority of people who are purchasing 1 or 2 cases, they would have to literally be digging to find the knock offs. And by those people, I'm referring to the average Joe, who isn't doing his research on forums like this to find the knock off sites. They're more likely to end up at Elements' website or a retailer to purchase a case. I personally would never buy an aluminum bumper for $150, and I wouldn't buy from the Chinese sites, mainly because they don't take Paypal. I'm not really sure how safe the Escrow service is that they accept, but I haven't read anything on these forums that shows it to NOT be trustworthy, just my preference to not use it, nor would i use my CC on those sites. I did pick up a Vapor 4 (probably knock off, not sure if it was just really cheap or if was just a really old model) on eBay for $25. For that price it was ok. Lowered my signal by enough for me to not want to use it. Was it worth $50 or $75? No. Even if it was of an inferior quality, when compared to the real cases, I don't think it would be worth the $50. I'll say it again from one of my previous posts, people buying these cases for $20 a piece are not the same demo that Element is going for, selling cases for $150 a piece. Someone made mention about hoping the next president brings jobs home...That would be great if he does, but you do realize that once this happens, a good chunk of people on this board, possibly including you or myself, aren't going to be sitting around typing on forums like this, as we'll be out working a second job to be able to afford our next Mac or iPhone or whatever it was that was being made in China and being sold to us for relatively cheap in comparison to what it could be.

 

[eba]

I'm sure counterfeit bulk sales might outnumber Authentic, for those looking to turn around and make some $ off them, but if you're talking about the majority of people who are purchasing 1 or 2 cases, they would have to literally be digging to find the knock offs. And by those people, I'm referring to the average Joe, who isn't doing his research on forums like this to find the knock off sites. They're more likely to end up at Elements' website or a retailer to purchase a case.

I think you're right. Which is why I think it's very wrong for an otherwise reputable site like this one to provide a forum for counterfeiters.

Interesting that MacRumors accepts advertising revenues from manufacturers of authentic iPhone accessories while at the same time providing a forum encouraging folks to buy from counterfeiters. How can they justify that?

So, MacRumors, what's up with that anyway?

 

[billycuth]

I think you're right. Which is why I think it's very wrong for an otherwise reputable site like this one to provide a forum for counterfeiters.

Interesting that MacRumors accepts advertising revenues from manufacturers of authentic iPhone accessories while at the same time providing a forum encouraging folks to buy from counterfeiters. How can they justify that?

So, MacRumors, what's up with that anyway?

That's just simply not true.

No one is encouraging anything, and macrumors is not condoning it by allowing free speech to take place on the subject.

People are sharing their experiences with different vendors. They aren't sticking any guns to anyone's head and forcing them to buy anything.

We live in a free country and as such, I like that we can have open discussion without fear of persecution. You may not feel the same way, but that's what makes this country great.

 

[guccigucci88]

I have no problem dropping $150 for a toy.

I have a major problem dropping $150 for a thin piece of painted aluminum like it is gold or something.

And of course the quality of the fake will be inferior, but if it costs almost 1/10 of the price of the original it's a risk I am willing to take.

You, like others seem to be taking this personally, when you aren't even the one being affected. And I never called anyone dumb for buying an original at full price or 10% off or anything of the sort. If that's how you want to spend your money, so be it. I don't see an Element Case, as nice as the design is, as being worth any more than maybe $50-$75 of my hard earned money. Now, maybe if they drop the price, I will buy one. For now, that seems very unlikely as the price has done nothing but go up since the product was created.

I understand everyone's point about hating counterfeiting, especially when, as you say they are exact replicas (however with probably massively inferior quality). But I don't understand the vitriol towards the buyers. If free markets provide an alternative to an outrageously overprice luxury item, people are going to buy it. The quality is nothing like the original, and people know this going in. So Element can't really be losing business if these people would never buy one at their price point to begin with. It's not like copying and selling a motion picture where you are getting exactly the same thing for free. It's paying a smaller price, getting an inferior product and living with that result. Heck, in some cases (pardon the pun) the knock off Element Cases are horrid. They're awful.

But at $22, you can through it away.

I remember when Element Cases first came out and they had major design flaws. Didn't stop them from charging their seriously high prices.

I will tell you who I have a major problem with - the ebay sellers pawning the fakes off as real and selling them to unsuspecting customers for Element's premium price. At least ordering directly from China, I know what I am getting. For that very reason, acquiring a second-hand Element Case is nearly impossible - and that is an unintended consequence. But if you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the makers and sellers of the counterfeit objects - not the buyers. It's just silly. Because at the end of the day, you're never going to be able to get everyone to just stop buying them. Everywhere you go, in every industry - this happens. Doesn't make it right, but you can't really blame buyers for taking advantage of it.

I didn't mean you specifically. Go look in the fake vapor thread and you will see who im talking about. Also I'm not taking this personally at all, but since you are asking I will explain my point of view. Really could care less about the company especially when their CS isn't very good. There are too many people who don't see the difference between buying a real and a fake except for price. It's more the principle I'm trying to teach... if someone's going to buy a fake case, I'm sure their also buying fake bags, fake dvds.

And also, buyers are to blame. If NO ONE bought fakes then they wouldn't be made. Obviously that's not going to happen. Why do people go to Walmart instead of their local grocery store? But in turn what happens to the local buisness? I don't really think that the fake cases are having THAT big of an impact that case companies are going to shut down. There are many people, many more so that are buying the legit stuff. Ofcourse some damage is going to be done.

When it comes down to it, I wouldnt spend 150 on a case either. I'd much rather have 10-20 cases that add up to 150. However I sympathize with those who do put out the money to buy the real thing. And it's frustrating to see so many fakes. It takes away from it. Just like clothes, remember when BAPE blew up? Everyone started rocking fake shirts... you couldn't even tell who was rocking the real stuff. How do you think the guy that actually spent top dollar for his clothes felt?

Last thing... when you say that the guy who buys a fake wasn't going to buy a real one.. isn't that for anything? THe guy that buys a fake bag for his girl never intended to buy a real one for her in the first place otherwise he would've saved up and actually done it up. Doesn't make it right though. Please don't try and justify it.

 

[eba]

People are sharing their experiences with different vendors.

People are sharing their experiences with different illegal vendors. Do you really have to be told that's wrong?

We live in a free country and as such, I like that we can have open discussion without fear of persecution.

Of course you like the fact that MacRumors makes it easy for you to help counterfeiters break the law. Just like others on the prowl for illegal goods are happy for back alleys.

 

[rrcompton]

People are sharing their experiences with different illegal vendors. Do you really have to be told that's wrong?

Of course you like the fact that MacRumors makes it easy for you to help counterfeiters break the law. Just like others on the prowl for illegal goods are happy for back alleys.

I'm surprised this forum allows talk about knock-offs and counterfeit products too. I guess they haven't came across a big enough company yet. Rolex went after eBay and ever since eBay is QUICK to take down counterfeit Rolex ads.

Every other forum I'm a member of will lock and delete the thread and either suspend or ban you for talking about anything related to counterfeit products.





And yes I know this is a old thread....

 

[ngocnguyen]

Are you kidding me? It's worth $150, but the paint is chipping off and you expected that? WTH?

What happens when you pay $60k on a new BMW M3....you open your door and bang it against another car...both your door paint and the other car paint chips or scratches? Wouldn't you feel even more pissed that you paid that much for a car and the paint STILL chipped?

Anything painted...will eventually chip, scratch or wear..it comes with the territory.

People always complain about Element's anodizing or paint coming off...as far as I've read (and owning authentic Element cases) Element never says their coatings will stay unharmed for the life of the product. I mean seriously, are the selling the coating or a protective case? If you drop the case and it scratches the case...booo hooo...why did you drop it in the first place? Is it Element's fault? Is the case defective because it got damaged due to your own negligence? Did the case PROTECT your iPhone? Isn't that what Element is selling...a protective case for your iPhone? Regardless if the paint or anodizing chipped..it still did it's main function...protecting the iPhone.

I just don't get why people complain about this.

Again, let's bring the car situation...you spend $80k for Nissan GTR..you park to close to the concrete sidewalk and destroy your front fender. Do you take it back to the Nissan dealer and complain because of your own stupidity? Do you vent and take it out to Nissan corporate and say the paint came off or the bumper wasn't put together properly? Do you insist on having the dealer replace the car because of your own negligence?

It all comes down to a iPhone case...it's just a case..an expensive case...that is meant to look good..while adding protection to your iPhone

Most companies that sell products that are outrageously overpriced have a mission..and it's not necessarily meant to be made available for everyone. Theirs is a niche market..people that are willing to buy a fake product is not their market or target audience.

As far as I am concerned...those who want the look but don't want to pay the price and will buy a knock-off to satisfy themselves ARE posers.

When you compare a real Element Case to a fake...you can see where the short cuts were taken by the Chinese manufacturers. Every Element case I own is a pure work of art..you can really tell that they take no shortcuts...and that's what determines retail pricing...at least with these cases.

 

[lyceumHQ]

For me. It comes down to this. Who's bank balance do I care more about, mine or elements?

If you said mine, you guessed correctly. There's no way I'm paying $150 for a case. Then shipping to the UK (mind you, based on the OP I should be proudly buying British products).

If element are troubled by knockoffs they'll do something about it. If they're missing out on sales they should address their massively over inflated prices. They're a business. They make a hell of a lot more money than me. So when given the choice, pay $150 plus €30 shipping for an original. Or $20 all in for a half decent fake, for me it's a no brainer.

I actually quite like the ION 5 case. But $50 plus $30 shipping for a TPU case?!?!? Get a grip element.

Obviously plenty of people buy originals and feel its money well spent. Because its a quality product. But for me. I'd never dream of spending that much on a case.

 

[ngocnguyen]

For me. It comes down to this. Who's bank balance do I care more about, mine or elements?

If you said mine, you guessed correctly. There's no way I'm paying $150 for a case. Then shipping to the UK (mind you, based on the OP I should be proudly buying British products).

If element are troubled by knockoffs they'll do something about it. If they're missing out on sales they should address their massively over inflated prices. They're a business. They make a hell of a lot more money than me. So when given the choice, pay $150 plus €30 shipping for an original. Or $20 all in for a half decent fake, for me it's a no brainer.

I actually quite like the ION 5 case. But $50 plus $30 shipping for a TPU case?!?!? Get a grip element.

Obviously plenty of people buy originals and feel its money well spent. Because its a quality product. But for me. I'd never dream of spending that much on a case.

all you whiners complaining about prices spent on a case...it's not about a case...it's about a brand.

Why did you buy Apple over a Samsung Galaxy even though technology-wise, the Galaxy is way beyond iPhone.

You spend $699 USD for the iPhone and a 2 yr contract...yet you only want to spend $15 for cheap rubber case that turns your iPhone into an unattractive rubber brick...makes no sense to me.

Why would you buy Sony over LG or Harmon Kardon over Denon, or say a Chevy Corvette vs a Nissan GTR...or say a Mini CooperS vs a Subaru STI

why doesn't your opinion on money spent on an iPhone case carry over to everything else you buy?

 

[afinch1992]

Pretty simple; if someone can make the same or comparable product at a much lesser price, then people are going to go with the cheaper choice.

In the case of most of these cases (no pun intended), there is a difference; whether it is scratching, signal loss, etc. After that has become known, those who are willing to risk a $600 phone on a $10 case is up to them. I have found myself on both sides of this line.

Sometimes you just want the look or whatever, but the point is, the guy who is making the $150 case wasn't going to get my business in the first place. Someone else filled the gap and reaped benefits that otherwise would not have existed. Are there probably some copyrights violate? sure. Is anyone going to pursue them? probably not.

 

[Eckscaliber]

I don't buy fake products, simply because what I like is already cheap enough. However, if I were interested in buying an Element case, that costs $150 on average, I would support the counterfeiters all day and night. American greed is not something that I enjoy. The materials used are only a few dollars (Yes I'm aware R&D is also added to the cost).

 

[nilzi]

I agree that counterfeit sales online outnumber the authentic, but you know that counterfeit products are really unsafe and even unqualified, poisonous. One friend of mine previously told me that some counterfeit iPhone cases are made of poisonous plastics, don't you guys think these cases are terrible?
what's more, fake iPhone 5 and counterfeit Galaxy S3 explode during phone call in Thailand and some other areas. You can check the news below http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/new...explodes-during-phone-call-in-thailand-344004
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...l-exploded-due-to-third-party-battery_id45509

So we shouldn't buy the counterfeit products.

 

[alanrocks]

The biggest problem with these fake products is that generally the production of them does not abide by the health and safety regulations that they should follow. A prime example was a story found here on Mac Rumors last month about an Asian women who bought a fake iPhone charger from China. Due to the charger being made, not following health and safety regulations, it gave her an electric shock and killed her. Full story here:

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/1...by-iphone-4-likely-used-unauthorized-charger/

There has been other instances were products such as phone covers which are fake have reacted when exposed to a certain heat letting of toxins as well as being made with materials dangerous to children if put in there mouths.

I am totally against buying fakes, I would rather spend 120 on a case that I know has been made under the right guidelines than that of one that has been made very cheaply and potentially dangerous to myself and others.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I'm surprised this forum allows talk about knock-offs and counterfeit products too. I guess they haven't came across a big enough company yet. Rolex went after eBay and ever since eBay is QUICK to take down counterfeit Rolex ads.

Every other forum I'm a member of will lock and delete the thread and either suspend or ban you for talking about anything related to counterfeit products.

I agree with this fully. The counterfeit industry is a filthy business and shouldn't be supported or promoted. Reputable manufacturers spend millions in development and establishing their brand and then some knock off outfit comes along and copies it to make a profit. How such patents can be flouted so openly and sold through mainstream website like amazon is beyond me.

 

[justinp3714]

Just wanted to throw my two cents in, so correct me if I'm wrong. If a company has a surplus of products, they will decrease the prices. If a company is suffering from a shortage of products, they will increase the prices. If element sells cases for $125, and is able to steadily raise prices furthermore, it is impossible that the fake producers are harming their company. Element must still have a significant amount of people buying from them.

 

[lyceumHQ]

all you whiners complaining about prices spent on a case...it's not about a case...it's about a brand.

Why did you buy Apple over a Samsung Galaxy even though technology-wise, the Galaxy is way beyond iPhone.

You spend $699 USD for the iPhone and a 2 yr contract...yet you only want to spend $15 for cheap rubber case that turns your iPhone into an unattractive rubber brick...makes no sense to me.

Why would you buy Sony over LG or Harmon Kardon over Denon, or say a Chevy Corvette vs a Nissan GTR...or say a Mini CooperS vs a Subaru STI

why doesn't your opinion on money spent on an iPhone case carry over to everything else you buy?

I'm not whining. I couldn't care less how much people spend on cases. I've spent for knows how much on cases. Note cases* not case.

Why would I spend $150 on a case I've no idea if I like. Plus $30 on shipping.

My 4s cost me £60 plus £27 for 12 months. I've never had an iPhone on a two year contract. So not everyone is in the same situation.

Why did I buy apple over Samsung? I don't like android. I prefer iOS. The only way to get iOS is on an iPhone.

And I don't want to spend more on a case than I did on buying my phone.

 

[gksdl81]

not that many people cares about brand name cases. if it looks good and affordable they just buy it. it's not like we are buying $1,000 product or something.

 

[mcdj]

I too am rather shocked that macrumors allows open discussion of fakes. I've even emailed Arn about it, with zero reply.

If I were a case manufacturer, I would think long and hard about advertising on macrumors.

Posts regarding cracked iPhone apps and pirated software are regularly deleted here...apparently it's not ok to steal from software developers, but it's fine to steal from case designers.

Forget that counterfeiting is illegal. Forget that it takes food out of the mouths of the employees of the case companies, who work hard to come up with the designs that give rise to counterfeits. But consider that a large number of counterfeits sold are sold to those who don't realize they are counterfeits. Hell, some fake goods are even sold by unsuspecting dealers. Eventually, if a fake becomes popular, there are more fakes on the market than genuine goods, and they become indistinguishable from and interchangeable with, the real thing. At that point, it's not a matter of if, but when, someone will end up paying the full genuine price and receive a fake. This is when counterfeiting crosses the line, from saving a few knowledgeable people a few bucks, to costing unsuspecting people a lot of money, and that, no matter how anyone may to try to defend it, is indefensible.

Banning the discussion of fakes, at least the discussion of where to buy them, and certainly banning reviews of fakes (the most heinous of macrumors' oversights) is simply the right thing to do.

If you agree, email Arn, the owner of macrumors, and tell him how you feel.

 

[iz2sick]

There is a flaw in your logic against these knock-offs. In your argument, you guys make it out like these Chinese knock-offs are hurting the legit brands like Element. That is only true to a very minute extent. The consumers of the knock-offs would never even get the authentic version. Read through the threads and you'll see the vast majority of them saying that they would never spend over $100 on just ONE case.

Brands like Element aren't losing a significant amount of customers to these knock-offs. Of the hundreds of posts I read from knock-off customers, I only saw a few mention that they were going to get the authentic one. In fact, I've seen more people mention that they bought both the authentic and knock-off.

So explain to me how this is hurting brands like Element? That's an argument you cannot make. What you can argue is that it is not ethical to copy someone else's intellectual property. But hey, everyone copies everyone anyway just under a slightly different form factor. If anything, knock-offs help brands like Element more than hurts them. These knock-offs have their name on it. That's free advertisement. Sure, some people that see these knock-offs around might actually take the time to ask the person about it, but the vast majority will likely just see it and think, "that's so cool" then go home and Google metal bumper cases. Guess what's going to show up when they do that?

 

[archrider]

There is a flaw in your logic against these knock-offs. In your argument, you guys make it out like these Chinese knock-offs are hurting the legit brands like Element. That is only true to a very minute extent. The consumers of the knock-offs would never even get the authentic version. Read through the threads and you'll see the vast majority of them saying that they would never spend over $100 on just ONE case.

Brands like Element aren't losing a significant amount of customers to these knock-offs. Of the hundreds of posts I read from knock-off customers, I only saw a few mention that they were going to get the authentic one. In fact, I've seen more people mention that they bought both the authentic and knock-off.

So explain to me how this is hurting brands like Element? That's an argument you cannot make. What you can argue is that it is not ethical to copy someone else's intellectual property. But hey, everyone copies everyone anyway just under a slightly different form factor. If anything, knock-offs help brands like Element more than hurts them. These knock-offs have their name on it. That's free advertisement. Sure, some people that see these knock-offs around might actually take the time to ask the person about it, but the vast majority will likely just see it and think, "that's so cool" then go home and Google metal bumper cases. Guess what's going to show up when they do that?

The authentic one could be priced lower if the customers weren't saying to themselves, "I'll just wait for the cheap crap copy". If the original was the only option they might buy it increasing the volume of sales and therefore be able to reduce the price. If you think rip off DVD movies don't bring an increase in price of the legal ones you are wrong. The same happens with a case Manufacturer that has to have industrial designers on staff with high wages and the testers and the equipment needed. They are forced to increase price. I won't go into the price of labor in the US vs China.

 

[iz2sick]

The authentic one could be priced lower if the customers weren't saying to themselves, "I'll just wait for the cheap crap copy". If the original was the only option they might buy it increasing the volume of sales and therefore be able to reduce the price. If you think ripe off DVD movies don't bring an increase in price of the legal ones you are wrong. The same happens with a case Manufacturer that has to have industrial designers on staff with high wages and the testers and the equipment needed. They are forced to increase price. I won't go into the price of labor in the US vs China.

More flawed logic. What makes you think that these consumers will spend $150 on iPhone cases if there weren't knock-offs? The vast majority of them have a set budget in mind. They searched the net for options in that price-range and stumble on the knock-offs. We aren't talking about a $20 difference here. It's in upwards of $100+.

And that last point is why your DVD analogy fails. DVDs are very affordable to begin with. The ripped versions, even though are free (for the most part), that's a price difference of what? $30 tops? Plus, if you're talking about post-theater releases, the copies are exact replicas. This isn't the case for the knock-off iPhone cases. Quality-wise, they are much inferior to the authentic cases so you don't have much risk of losing customers that want the authentic quality. With DVD rips, you get the authentic quality so yea, the authentic DVD sales will get significantly impacted negatively.

Again, you, like many others in this thread, are missing the main point... 99% of these Element knock-off consumers aren't potential Element customers.

Don't believe me? Go into any of those knock-off threads and ask them what is the max amount they would spend on a SINGLE case.

 

[AAPLinc]

I just got my knock off LifeProof case for my 4S last week. Got in on eBay for $10.99, nearly 1/8th the price of an actual LifeProof ($79.99). Works just as well, is waterproof (tested it), literally looks the exact same, just doesn't have "LIFEPROOF" printed on the back face. I have no complaints or problems with the case.

I don't feel bad at all for not supporting the company that came up with the case orginally. If the case were more affordable and a more appropriate price, I would have no problem buying the legit companies case. But when a knock off case costs 1/8th the price of the actual case, and looks and performs the exact same, I'm sorry... I'm going to go with the knock off.

The same goes for clothes, shoes, tech products, etc... people always pay for money for the name brand. I don't mind generics, except for groceries.

 

[archrider]

More flawed logic. What makes you think that these consumers will spend $150 on iPhone cases if there weren't knock-offs? The vast majority of them have a set budget in mind. They searched the net for options in that price-range and stumble on the knock-offs. We aren't talking about a $20 difference here. It's in upwards of $100+.

And that last point is why your DVD analogy fails. DVDs are very affordable to begin with. The ripped versions, even though are free (for the most part), that's a price difference of what? $30 tops? Plus, if you're talking about post-theater releases, the copies are exact replicas. This isn't the case for the knock-off iPhone cases. Quality-wise, they are much inferior to the authentic cases so you don't have much risk of losing customers that want the authentic quality. With DVD rips, you get the authentic quality so yea, the authentic DVD sales will get significantly impacted negatively.

Again, you, like many others in this thread, are missing the main point... 99% of these Element knock-off consumers aren't potential Element customers.

Don't believe me? Go into any of those knock-off threads and ask them what is the max amount they would spend on a SINGLE case.

the first element case I bought was $75. The increase is largely because the knock offs are taking customers.

Your mind is closed on this subject. I have two real Sector 5 cases and one fake Sector 5 and one copy of the Vapor Pro revised for the iPhone 5. Guess which case I decided to use. If we continue we will both get hot and nobody will be convinced the other has a point. So say what you want it hasn't convinced me.