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the first element case I bought was $75. The increase is largely because the knock offs are taking customers.

Your mind is closed on this subject. I have two real Sector 5 cases and one fake Sector 5 and one copy of the Vapor Pro revised for the iPhone 5. Guess which case I decided to use. If we continue we will both get hot and nobody will be convinced the other has a point. So say what you want it hasn't convinced me.

Can you prove that element is increasing their prices because of knock offs?? I don't think you can. In fact, you can't even remotely prove it, unless you WORK for element.

That makes no sense when you think about it.

If I was selling a case for $75 and I was losing a ton of customers because of knock offs, I wouldn't raise my price to 125 because then I would be losing even MORE customers because of the cheaper knockoffs.

I would lower my price to 50 dollars and gain back probably a LOT of the people buying knock offs and almost definitely make more money than if I raised the prices to 125. Therefore, they aren't losing a ton of customers to knock offs.
 
It's a fair question.

I just bought a fake Power Support bumper because to get one here, legitimately, it has to be imported from Japan and it costs at least $50.

For a bumper that doesn't fit with my mono price cable, not sure I'd spend that much. Even on a bumper I really like.

But $9, that's doable.

The manufacturers should lower their price to compete, make things more readily available (if I could get power support locally for $20 something, I would).

Especially when it's $100+, get real.

I've also bought $2 fake Apple bumpers, because spending $30 for a piece of rubber that will fall apart anyways is absurd.

I guess the post a few back is the best one:
Am I more concerned about a company's bank account or my own?
 
I've always found it ironic that people will pay big premiums for Apple products. Yet many will go to great lengths to find and purchase the cheapest low quality accessories. It's like the guy that buys a BMW, but can't afford to insure it.
 
Can you prove that element is increasing their prices because of knock offs?? I don't think you can. In fact, you can't even remotely prove it, unless you WORK for element.

That makes no sense when you think about it.

If I was selling a case for $75 and I was losing a ton of customers because of knock offs, I wouldn't raise my price to 125 because then I would be losing even MORE customers because of the cheaper knockoffs.

I would lower my price to 50 dollars and gain back probably a LOT of the people buying knock offs and almost definitely make more money than if I raised the prices to 125. Therefore, they aren't losing a ton of customers to knock offs.

Good point. It may be they went with the mystique that a high price means much better. We see how that works with cars
 
the first element case I bought was $75. The increase is largely because the knock offs are taking customers.

Your mind is closed on this subject. I have two real Sector 5 cases and one fake Sector 5 and one copy of the Vapor Pro revised for the iPhone 5. Guess which case I decided to use. If we continue we will both get hot and nobody will be convinced the other has a point. So say what you want it hasn't convinced me.

First of all, I don't get hot from Internet debates unless someone turns it into a personal insult fest. Even then, I just type angrily with a smile on my face.

Second, it is not I who has a shut mind. It is you. The proof? Well the proof lies in the fact that you are one of the people that I described to a T. I said many people buy both the real and fake versions. Of course you'll use the real one as I've already stated, it is of far superior quality (it better be for the price).

I know the $75 case you speak of. It is the original Element Vapor 4. With the back case, it was $99. That particular case was plagued with problems such as reception blocking, poor port compatibility, and I heard lots of incidences where it wasn't flush. Hence they came out with the Vapor Comp to address all said problems.

So no, the price increase isn't because of what you think is the reason. The price increase came from newer cases like the Vapor Pro and Comp.

FYI, I don't ever debate to convince the people I debate against. It's for the readers who have an open mind.
 
I've always found it ironic that people will pay big premiums for Apple products. Yet many will go to great lengths to find and purchase the cheapest low quality accessories. It's like the guy that buys a BMW, but can't afford to insure it.

Wow, this post is full of assumptions. Big premiums for Apple products? Yea, maybe for everything but the iPhone. The iPhone is priced like the rest of the competition. Where is this "big premium" you speak of?

You assume that just because someone has an iPhone, but a cheap case, they must be too poor to afford better quality accessories. That's pretty ignorant. There are plenty of people who can afford the $150 case but simply refuse to spend that much on an ACCESSORY. Let's flip this around... using your logic, then every Element customer is rich. See how absurd your comment is now?

Sticking with your car analogy, I'm going to assume that you never buy aftermarket parts and always go through the dealership instead.
 
I've always found it ironic that people will pay big premiums for Apple products. Yet many will go to great lengths to find and purchase the cheapest low quality accessories. It's like the guy that buys a BMW, but can't afford to insure it.

Horrible example with the BMW.

iPhones aren't that expensive, they are priced similar to top Android phones, why are you calling it premium?

Putting a cheap case on an iPhone is smart. Why do people spend half the price they paid on the phone for a case when you can get plenty of cheap options? Rich dumb people are hilarious.

So basically if I buy a BMW for $50,000 should I spend $25,000 on a car cover to protect it? That's half the price of the car.

The most I have spent on an iPhone case is 15-20$ and I'll never go higher. More expensive case does not = better.

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People who are saying that brand name cases are getting more expensive because people are buying knock offs...YOU'RE WRONG.

Did any of you pay attention in economics? Does "supply and demand" ring a bell?

When a product is selling well, the price goes up, when a product is selling bad, it gets cheaper and goes on sale.

You guys are saying the price is going up because no one is buying...um, sorry no. Doesn't make sense.

Knock off cases are there for people who find it redundant to spent $100 on a case, when you can pretty much get the same case for 80$ cheaper. Some people are more intelligent.
 
Wow, this post is full of assumptions. Big premiums for Apple products? Yea, maybe for everything but the iPhone. The iPhone is priced like the rest of the competition. Where is this "big premium" you speak of?

You assume that just because someone has an iPhone, but a cheap case, they must be too poor to afford better quality accessories. That's pretty ignorant. There are plenty of people who can afford the $150 case but simply refuse to spend that much on an ACCESSORY. Let's flip this around... using your logic, then every Element customer is rich. See how absurd your comment is now?

Sticking with your car analogy, I'm going to assume that you never buy aftermarket parts and always go through the dealership instead.

subsidized certainly, but unsubsidized there's usually a premium involved.

Particularly when compared to Nexus phones, or second hand Androids that have depreciated a lot more quickly than iPhones.

But I don't think you can compare a BMW to Apple. Apple is so mainstream now, it's just a product most people have. Most people don't have BMW's. And there is no subsidy price, the closest thing is leasing and that's still pricey.
 
First of all, I don't get hot from Internet debates unless someone turns it into a personal insult fest. Even then, I just type angrily with a smile on my face.

Second, it is not I who has a shut mind. It is you. The proof? Well the proof lies in the fact that you are one of the people that I described to a T. I said many people buy both the real and fake versions. Of course you'll use the real one as I've already stated, it is of far superior quality (it better be for the price).

I know the $75 case you speak of. It is the original Element Vapor 4. With the back case, it was $99. That particular case was plagued with problems such as reception blocking, poor port compatibility, and I heard lots of incidences where it wasn't flush. Hence they came out with the Vapor Comp to address all said problems.

So no, the price increase isn't because of what you think is the reason. The price increase came from newer cases like the Vapor Pro and Comp.

FYI, I don't ever debate to convince the people I debate against. It's for the readers who have an open mind.

Your posts are very close to personal insults. Congratulations you win.
 
Your posts are very close to personal insults. Congratulations you win.

No, they are insulting to you. I have never attacked anyone personally here. I'll call your COMMENTS ignorant, absurd, or fallacious. None of those attack YOU. That's attacking the substance of your posts. Big difference bud. I can respect you as a human being, but I don't have to respect your ignorant comments... and I'm not using "ignorant" as an insult. I'm personally ignorant of politics. I hate it.

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subsidized certainly, but unsubsidized there's usually a premium involved.

Particularly when compared to Nexus phones, or second hand Androids that have depreciated a lot more quickly than iPhones.

But I don't think you can compare a BMW to Apple. Apple is so mainstream now, it's just a product most people have. Most people don't have BMW's. And there is no subsidy price, the closest thing is leasing and that's still pricey.

Yea, the issue of subsidizing is a different matter. I exclude that because the majority do not buy them unsubsidized... at least here in America they don't.
 
No, they are insulting to you. I have never attacked anyone personally here. I'll call your COMMENTS ignorant, absurd, or fallacious. None of those attack YOU. That's attacking the substance of your posts. Big difference bud. I can respect you as a human being, but I don't have to respect your ignorant comments... and I'm not using "ignorant" as an insult. I'm personally ignorant of politics. I hate it.


Are you an Attorney?

"your COMMENTS ignorant, absurd, or fallacious" is really not insulting?

I take it back you must be a Politician. You insult and say you are not insulting. You say you hate politics but you sound like a politician.
 
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Money saved is money earned especially on a college student's budget :rolleyes: Seriously though, it's honestly not that big of a deal because you have to realize there is a market for counterfeit goods. Though it's a morally gray area, it still creates jobs, adds to the respective country's GDP, and what not. It's bad for the OEM, yes, but in the end you need to realize sitting here and whining about people who choose to buy counterfeit products does nothing to change the real-world situation, which is a lot more complex than everyone is making it out to be.
 
I buy the real deal because of the warranty. My only goal in buying ANYTHING is that it has a good warranty. That and build quality.

Most people who buy $1-5 styluses, replace them all the time. You can buy a nice stylus for $30, and the nib will last you a year or more before it needs to be replaced. You still end up paying the same amount of money in the end, so why not pay then and there the $30?
 
I do it for the same reason that I buy knockoff apple sync cables. I, in my infinite wisdom, don't feel that the product is worth the price that's being asked for. Does that make it right? Absolutely not - I'm 100% in the wrong for not purchasing the real deal...but if I can buy a disposable case that I may or may not like, as opposed to a case that sells for more than my phone did on contract, it seems to make sense to me - just like it makes sense to buy 30 apple cables for the price of 1 from apple (30-pin times, obviously). Yep, they broke often, but at a few cents a piece did it bother me? Hell no, I had them all over the place, abandoned them places, forgot them in hotels etc.

When I find a product that I really like and that doesn't make me feel like I'm being banged in the behind, I'm more than happy to pay for the authentic (example: graft leverage). But 200 bucks for a case? Not a bloody chance in hell unless it's made of diamonds and unicorn piss.
 
Are you an Attorney?

"your COMMENTS ignorant, absurd, or fallacious" is really not insulting?

I take it back you must be a Politician. You insult and say you are not insulting. You say you hate politics but you sound like a politician.

First of all, ignorant isn't an insult in the context I use it in. It simply means that you are lacking knowledge of said subject.

If I said you were an absurd person, then yea... that would be a personal insult. But I did no such thing. I called some comments here absurd, not the person. I've heard absurd comments from many respectable people.

Fallacious... do you even know what this word means? I have no idea how you can misconstrue this word into an insult. o_O
 
First of all, ignorant isn't an insult in the context I use it in. It simply means that you are lacking knowledge of said subject.

If I said you were an absurd person, then yea... that would be a personal insult. But I did no such thing. I called some comments here absurd, not the person. I've heard absurd comments from many respectable people.

Fallacious... do you even know what this word means? I have no idea how you can misconstrue this word into an insult. o_O

Oh thanks, i feel ever so much better that my posts are ignorant, absurd, and fallacious but I'm a fine intelligent person. However you are incredibly arrogant. If you keep this up we'll both be banned.
 
I would never buy an element case for $150, but i might take a punt on $30 knockoff, so either way Element are not losing anything from my lack of custom.
If the knockoff didnt exist i just wouldnt buy the case, so i dont see how i am hurting Element or destroying innovation and the economy

I agree with your reasoning. The theory is correct; Element never had a sale to begin with, so they were never deprived of a sale. Thus, it's not wrong.

People are sharing their experiences with different illegal vendors. Do you really have to be told that's wrong?

Of course you like the fact that MacRumors makes it easy for you to help counterfeiters break the law. Just like others on the prowl for illegal goods are happy for back alleys.

It's not "illegal", and it's only breaking a civil law. Trademark, trade dress, and design patents are all fairly complex bits of law, where little details make a difference. For example, if someone completely copies the Element case, calls it an Element case, and tries to pass it off as an Element case, that's totally wrong. If someone makes a case inspired by the Element design, but adds their own touch to it, and calls it something else, and makes it pretty clear that it isn't an authentic Element, then it's most likely fine. As a good example, there is nothing illegal about selling a stainless steel watch, painted gold, with a lens over the date, in the style of a Rolex, for $50; as long as the seller doesn't represent it as a Rolex. It's becomes infringement when they paint the"Rolex" logo on the watch-face, and call it a Rolex to the buyer.

Remember, nothing is 100% original, nobody ever comes up with a truly unique idea. Everyone builds on, combines, and modifies already existing things. Some change more than others; there is a vast number of possibilities between a wholesale copy and completely new thing. It's very difficult to draw the line in there.
 
The other problem with counterfeits is brand dilution.

That is what really hurts the luxury brands. Not so much with fake mass market goods like fake Speck or otterbox cases, but Element is marketed and priced as a luxury good.

When it gets to the point where everyone's mom along with every piece of ghetto trash is wearing a fake Louis Vuitton or Chanel purse, that hurts their brand image. When you have to question whether the person you meet who is wearing a Rolex is wearing a real one or has a fake, that hurts their brand image.

It isn't the lost sale that would never have happened because the person buying the fake could never have afforded the real thing to begin with that hurts them. It's the loss brand exclusivity and identity that hurts them. It's the fact that an actual buyer of luxury goods might not want to buy their product because of the fakes. It's the fact that having tons of cheap copies out there makes their actual products less desirable to those who can afford them.

That's not even touching on the loss of reputation from the poor quality of the fakes. They are sold with almost perfect looking packaging, documentation, warranty cards, etc. Many buyers won't know that the case they are getting is fake. Maybe they think they're getting a really great deal at the flea market. Maybe the seller is passing them off as real at close to the real price. Either way, the result is that a consumer looks at the fake product and says to themselves: "Wow, this element case is a total piece of crap. I only paid 1/2 or 1/3 the retail price and it's still not worth it." Then they tell their friends, and the brand's reputation suffers.
 
The other problem with counterfeits is brand dilution.

That is what really hurts the luxury brands. Not so much with fake mass market goods like fake Speck or otterbox cases, but Element is marketed and priced as a luxury good.

When it gets to the point where everyone's mom along with every piece of ghetto trash is wearing a fake Louis Vuitton or Chanel purse, that hurts their brand image. When you have to question whether the person you meet who is wearing a Rolex is wearing a real one or has a fake, that hurts their brand image.

It isn't the lost sale that would never have happened because the person buying the fake could never have afforded the real thing to begin with that hurts them. It's the loss brand exclusivity and identity that hurts them. It's the fact that an actual buyer of luxury goods might not want to buy their product because of the fakes. It's the fact that having tons of cheap copies out there makes their actual products less desirable to those who can afford them.

That's not even touching on the loss of reputation from the poor quality of the fakes. They are sold with almost perfect looking packaging, documentation, warranty cards, etc. Many buyers won't know that the case they are getting is fake. Maybe they think they're getting a really great deal at the flea market. Maybe the seller is passing them off as real at close to the real price. Either way, the result is that a consumer looks at the fake product and says to themselves: "Wow, this element case is a total piece of crap. I only paid 1/2 or 1/3 the retail price and it's still not worth it." Then they tell their friends, and the brand's reputation suffers.

Everyone and their mother are using fake Rolexes, LV's, and countless others. You just don't realize it. Do you question it every time you come across them? No.

Users of these iPhone cases are a minority no matter how you slice the bread. You see maybe a few hundred premium case users on this forum. There's likely hundreds of more lurkers. Let's be generous and say in total, there are 1,000,000 premium case users fake or real. Now all of these people aren't even in America. There are roughly 314 million people in this country. Of that, not even a quarter of the population have iPhones. And I didn't even break down how many of these case users have which premium brand like Element, Draco, or 3lectron.

So tell me how exclusivity is lost. And again, most people aren't going up to you and examining your phone. They might come up and ask you what it is. Then there's an even smaller chance that they might ask you to let them hold it. But then you have to subtract people who aren't comfortable handing their phones to strangers in the first place.

Then to top this all off, you need to consider that people who aren't aware of these premium cases do not have a discerning eye. They have nothing to compare the fake case too. And by all means, these fake cases look every bit premium. Even when they get beat up (the real ones get beat up too so keep that in mind), they look great.

I'll tell you right now, I've had several people ask about my case. I told them it's an Element case. Boom. They go home and search it. Maybe some bought it. Element just made sales off me, a fake Element user.

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Oh thanks, i feel ever so much better that my posts are ignorant, absurd, and fallacious but I'm a fine intelligent person. However you are incredibly arrogant. If you keep this up we'll both be banned.

Take all the offense you want to. I'm sorry that you take everything personally. But please, if you can't handle a debate, then don't start one. And if you find my comments absurd, you're more than welcome to do so. I won't take it personally.

See, you calling me arrogant is a personal attack. You just attacked my character which had nothing to do with my arguments. If anyone is gonna get banned, it's you for that personal attack you just made.

You want real arrogance from me? Here goes...

Thank you for your attacks on my character. It goes to show that you cannot defend your stance without detracting from the debate by playing the "You are arrogant" card and claiming that I'm attacking you personally. I win (that's the arrogant part in case you missed it).

Archrider, don't be so sensitive. This is the Internet. You came in here to debate me and that's what I did. Expect your comments to be broken down and have the illogical parts called out.
 
iz2sick, I gave up my stance a long time ago and couldn't let go of responding to your remarks. If you were a little kinder with your wording I would have been gone after your first post.
 
iz2sick, I gave up my stance a long time ago and couldn't let go of responding to your remarks. If you were a little kinder with your wording I would have been gone after your first post.

Look, I'm not here to be all PC. I'm sick of an oversensitive culture of people. I'm an Asian American and I don't get half as offended by Asian jokes as the white majority. That's just who I am. I'm not going to sit here and worry about every single word I say. If you take offense even after I explain that I have no ill intent, that is now your problem.

How do you want me to respond?

"Oh, it's nice that you think that way, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Not because what you said is illogical, but because it just doesn't mesh with me."

Seriously, refrain from debates... especially on the Internet if you are going to take offense every time someone calls you out for fallacies, illogical, or ignorant comments and analogies.

None of what I said is personal. All of my comments are reserved for your posts in this particular debate. Are you honestly going to tell me that you've never heard someone you respect say something absolutely absurd or ignorant?

I have respect for my mother, but man... she has some some really absurd things.
 
Although as true as your statement may be... it's a moot point when talking about a phone accessory that costs over $100.


You underestimate how much something of quality can cost to make, even if some of the costs are to maintain a level of brand exclusivity. Bottom line is if you can't afford the real thing then don't buy it.



Everyone and their mother are using fake Rolexes, LV's, and countless others. You just don't realize it. Do you question it every time you come across them? No.

LOL.... Come on now. Go to any heavily populated city and you'll get scoffed at for carrying any of those things. Maybe not to your face, but trust me, the people you're trying to impress with those items will know they're fake. There's nothing wrong with not being able to afford the real thing but don't get a knockoff LV, Rolex, etc. It's a joke and makes you a joke.
 
You underestimate how much something of quality can cost to make, even if some of the costs are to maintain a level of brand exclusivity. Bottom line is if you can't afford the real thing then don't buy it.





LOL.... Come on now. Go to any heavily populated city and you'll get scoffed at for carrying any of those things. Maybe not to your face, but trust me, the people you're trying to impress with those items will know they're fake. There's nothing wrong with not being able to afford the real thing but don't get a knockoff LV, Rolex, etc. It's a joke and makes you a joke.

I don't underestimate anything. I know what it takes to make quality product. I also understand that products are made with needless amounts of quality. We're talking about an accessory for your cell phone. Is a case that costs in upwards to half the cost of your phone really necessary? No. It's plain old showing off luxury.

If we can't afford it we shouldn't get it? What kind of pompous commentary is that? That exudes "I'm better than you" attitude. So people who can't afford a Mercedes shouldn't get a Hyundai right? I mean, if you can't afford power everything, heated leather seats, HID lights, etc. on a Mercedes, then don't get it on a car that is designed to mimic the Mercedes. If you can't afford Captain Crunch, then don't buy the generic store-brand copy of it.

People can't make fun of you for a knock-off if they have no idea it's a knock-off. You have no idea how many people have been ripped off with fake Rolexes and LV's. Even diamonds. The vast majority of consumers can't tell the difference between knock-off or the real thing. I'm included in that. I can't spot a fake Rolex from a real one without walking up the person, grabbing their wrist, and molesting their watch with my eyes.

If you pay that much attention to people to spot fakes, you have problems.
 
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