FCP X Demo: 'Nowhere Near' Final Version, More on Final Cut Studio Apps Coming

Small White Car

macrumors G4
Aug 29, 2006
10,887
1,123
0
Washington DC
I'm sure it'll be $999 full, or $299 upgrade for the full studio. At least I hope so. Here I stand, cash in hand!
Currently the Mac App Store has no way of offering an upgrade to existing Mac software. I don't see that changing.

I suspect that all these apps will be stripped of their sample media. They're all quite small without them. Perhaps Apple will sell those files separately on their own on DVDs?

Why am I getting such bitter responses from people who seem to agree with my point?
Because you made a post that claimed our editing skills have nothing to do with creativiy or experience, but simply that 'knowing the software' is the only advangate we have.

Telling people that they're useless at their jobs is gonna make people bitter.

I don't feel pissy about this, but you basically told me that I really should be because I'm actually useless and only Final Cut's complexity has been making me appear smart, when in fact I was not.
 

David29

macrumors member
Jun 8, 2009
68
0
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CA
Oh no ....

"Randy Ubillos, who did the demo, added more features ..."

Great, That's the guy who "redesigned" iMovie and screwed it up. I'll bet he was partially responsible for the "improved" (sic) iPhoto 11 as well.

I'll reserve judgement until this hits the streets.
 

Hunabku

macrumors regular
Feb 9, 2006
161
0
0
Turtle Island
www.imaginariums.com
Currently the Mac App Store has no way of offering an upgrade to existing Mac software. I don't see that changing.

I suspect that all these apps will be stripped of their sample media. They're all quite small without them. Perhaps Apple will sell those files separately on their own on DVDs?

Because you made a post that claimed our editing skills have nothing to do with creativiy or experience, but simply that 'knowing the software' is the only advangate we have.

Telling people that they're useless at their jobs is gonna make people bitter.

I don't feel pissy about this, but you basically told me that I really should be because I'm actually useless and only Final Cut's complexity has been making me appear smart, when in fact I was not.
Boy you are taking his post quite personally. I think you will find it true in many ways - not just NLEs - that people like to defend what worked for them before in the light of something fundamentally new and different.

We see these kinds of people come out of the woodwork whenever apple releases something groundbreaking. Not that you are one of them - at least you don't seem to be.
 

totoum

macrumors member
Aug 16, 2007
71
0
0
Because you made a post that claimed our editing skills have nothing to do with creativiy or experience, but simply that 'knowing the software' is the only advangate we have.

That's not how I understood what he said at all,he put "professional" in quotes because he was being sarcastic,to me he meant that if someone is worried about the fact that more people can now operate a software because it's simpler to use/more affordable then they must not be a real pro because a real pro wouldn't worry about such things,they know that they have the creativity and experience that sets them appart.
 

mentholiptus

macrumors regular
Sep 1, 2009
163
0
0
Currently the Mac App Store has no way of offering an upgrade to existing Mac software. I don't see that changing.

I suspect that all these apps will be stripped of their sample media. They're all quite small without them. Perhaps Apple will sell those files separately on their own on DVDs?
Yeah, we'll see. I guess it all depends on what Apple decides, eh? Unless they've condensed 7-9 apps into 1-4 and ditched all the sample media for livetype, soundtrack pro, motion, DVD studio pro, etc then I strongly doubt it'll be an app store exclusive. I can tell you though, our IT staff won't be very fond of having to go through the Mac app store to keep our entire AV dept up and running.

Aperture is still sold in a box at a higher price, and I'm sure all pro apps will be as well for the foreseeable future. FCP and Aperture as stand alone apps are relatively small, and aperture doesn't ship with 7 discs.
 

Hellscream2005

macrumors newbie
Mar 14, 2009
10
0
0
Funny how they claim it's supposed to be nowhere near final software, yet it's releasing in a month and a half. I would think this is on bug ironing stage right?
 

filmantopia

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2010
684
1,650
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That's not how I understood what he said at all,he put "professional" in quotes because he was being sarcastic,to me he meant that if someone is worried about the fact that more people can now operate a software because it's simpler to use/more affordable then they must not be a real pro because a real pro wouldn't worry about such things,they know that they have the creativity and experience that sets them appart.
My iPhone battery died at MoMA after I read some of these replies, so I just walked 2 blocks to the 5th Ave Apple Store to reply, just to see that you laid it out just fine. Thank You.
 

RebootD

macrumors 6502a
Jan 27, 2009
737
0
0
NW Indiana
It was the way you stated it plus your tone. My point, and response, was that all this anti-professional bs from people is getting out of hand. I'm a professional graphic designer who is getting more into editing/animation but just because I own Premiere/AE CS5 doesn't make me a pro editor! I guarantee the real pros aren't worried I will be a threat to them any time soon.

Also I had dental work done today so I'm a wee bit cranky ;)


I'm not necessarily referring to the responses on this thread, just some of the general backlash that Final Cut Pro X has received for looking like iMovie by people claiming to be industry professionals. I use the term loosely because I'm makIng a point about the meaninglessness of the word "professional". Why am I getting such bitter responses from people who seem to agree with my point?
 

8CoreWhore

macrumors 68020
Jan 17, 2008
2,252
332
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Big D
It's nice to see the generally positive comments on this forum, other forums for "professionals" are not so happy!

Personally I can't wait to start working with it.
What these naysayers are NOT saying is what pro features are missing. Until they list something wrong with it, they are just being irrational. My experience is, lots of guys don't like their pro apps getting too easy to use, because they want their skills to be considered special. They hate it when, "Anyone can do it".

As others have pointed out, editing skills isn't just about technical expertise with the tools. What sets the better editors apart, is the choices they make. Think Walter Murch.
 

Hunabku

macrumors regular
Feb 9, 2006
161
0
0
Turtle Island
www.imaginariums.com
What these naysayers are NOT saying is what pro features are missing. Until they list something wrong with it, they are just being irrational. My experience is, lots of guys don't like their pro apps getting too easy to use, because they want their skills to be considered special. They hate it when, "Anyone can do it".
Yes i imagine this is partly true, because creative/talented upstarts who do not have years of complex/technical experience, on a much smaller budget can preform at a much closer level to those with many more years of experience.

I say closer level because as mentioned earlier there is much more that goes into professional editing than software know how. With that said, the upstarts present real competition to the entrenched because they can - on a smaller budget - more easily produce comparable work - which might have the effect of lowering the amount entrenched professionals can charge for their work.
 

MrChurchyard

macrumors member
Sep 22, 2008
87
41
0
"Randy Ubillos, who did the demo, added more features ..."

Great, That's the guy who "redesigned" iMovie and screwed it up. I'll bet he was partially responsible for the "improved" (sic) iPhoto 11 as well.

I'll reserve judgement until this hits the streets.
Who also happens to be the guy in charge of Final Cut since the very beginning. As well as the first three versions of Premiere.
 

totoum

macrumors member
Aug 16, 2007
71
0
0
What these naysayers are NOT saying is what pro features are missing.
Here's a quote for you

t the viewer is essentially dead. I'll be very interested to see how actual editing works on this thing -- none of this addresses the process of selecting a clip, setting ins and outs, and getting it onto the timeline. All of this is about stuff that's already on the timeline, and that's where Apple seems to be suggesting you do the majority of your editing.

That doesn't seem very... precise. I love Final Cut, but 'precision editing' (aka Trim Mode in Avid) doesn't replace knowing what you're picking before you place it into your cut.
Avid,FCP7,Premiere,Vegas all have a viewer.
Now I know some people that don't use the viewer all that much and I know others that swear by it.
I myself have been using it less and less over time
 

filtatos

macrumors newbie
Jul 26, 2010
13
0
0
This seems to be a great upgrade, finally. 64bit, use of multicores, and focus on editing, very nice. But we have to wait for the other FCS suite apps. Also, what about the plugins? Do we have to throw our plugin collection in the trash?

On the "professional" discussion:
Professional (and valued) editors are not the ones that can use complex software, but those who understand what film editing is, in its aesthetical complexity.
On the other hand, everyone can edit a movie already; Whats the difference if he's using final cut, imovie, avid or nero? Filmmaking isn't what it used to be.
You can buy a camera and a mac/pc and you're done. Lots of crappy movies out there of course, but nobody can stop you if you have something to offer.
And there are some not-so-professional movies that have a lot to offer.
 

starwa314

macrumors newbie
Aug 18, 2007
3
0
0
Nope. Probably not even close. The Air doesn't have the processors or graphics required for even the current version
Does nobody do any research? The MacBook Air meets the requirements for the current version of Final Cut as listed on Apple's website. The only one that doesn't is the Early 2008 model because of the Integrated Intel graphics.
 

12CorePro

macrumors newbie
Apr 13, 2011
1
0
0
Filmantopia, just because you can go to the auto store and buy $1000 worth of tools doesn't mean you can automatically repair a Mercedes Benz. You can buy wood, wiring and plumbing materials at Home Depot, but doesn't that mean you can build a functioning house that meets all building code standards.

Likewise, owning a piece of software doesn't make you a professional. The tools may become less expensive, but the knowledge and experience requirements remain the same.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

If you think about it, it's not all too surprising that some of these "professionals" are getting so worked up and sulky over this release. The notion that "pro editing" can belong to just about anyone, rather than an exclusive circle of elites, poses an existential crisis. Apple's re-thinking of editing is also a re-thinking of what it means to be "professional". The announcement sheds light on a future in which their "advanced", learned techniques are no longer advantageous. The "industry pros" are facing the plight of impending impotence. It's not something anyone would really openly admit, but I think they're feeling a bit naked, stripped of their status.

Who can blame them for being pissy?
 

totoum

macrumors member
Aug 16, 2007
71
0
0
Filmantopia, just because you can go to the auto store and buy $1000 worth of tools doesn't mean you can automatically repair a Mercedes Benz. You can buy wood, wiring and plumbing materials at Home Depot, but doesn't that mean you can build a functioning house that meets all building code standards.

Likewise, owning a piece of software doesn't make you a professional. The tools may become less expensive, but the knowledge and experience requirements remain the same.
I already said it above,I'll copy what I said:

He put "professional" in quotes because he was being sarcastic,he meant that if someone is worried about the fact that more people can now operate a software because it's simpler to use/more affordable then they must not be a real pro because a real pro wouldn't worry about such things,they know that they have the creativity and experience that sets them appart.
 

benjs

macrumors regular
Jul 28, 2008
155
10
0
Funny how they claim it's supposed to be nowhere near final software, yet it's releasing in a month and a half. I would think this is on bug ironing stage right?
To set the record straight, read that paragraph from Larry Jordan very carefully:

"While the slide show was identical to the February meeting, the demo was not. Randy Ubillos, who did the demo, added more features and additional explanations on effects (see the screen shot above). However, I was told later that the build that was demoed was the same build that was shown in February - and that the application has moved significantly forward since that time.

In other words, what we saw tonight was nowhere near the final form of the application."

So, assume that this build is from February 23rd, the exact date MacRumors reported this invitation-only showing of FCP X. Also assume that FCP X is released on June 1st (which seems overly optimistic to me). That's still roughly a three month period between beta and final release, with a distribution model whereby Apple is capable of making tweaks as late as... well... June 1st. In addition, I would imagine the February showing was earlier than the 23rd, and the release date will be later than the 1st. Oh... there's also the fact that since this is a ground-up reinterpretation of FCP, this has probably been worked on for quite some time.
 

8CoreWhore

macrumors 68020
Jan 17, 2008
2,252
332
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Big D
Here's a quote for you



Avid,FCP7,Premiere,Vegas all have a viewer.
Now I know some people that don't use the viewer all that much and I know others that swear by it.
I myself have been using it less and less over time
But they can't even say it's dead or anything is missing, because the demo is so limited.

The images we see are limited ... and are showcasing new things... that doesn't mean one can't turn the viewer on.
 

noahtk

macrumors member
Apr 2, 2011
42
0
0
US
Very nice.

The great price-point is Apple's strategy to make the App Store more mainstream.
 

puckhead193

macrumors G3
May 25, 2004
9,206
432
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NY
after watching the unofficial video i feel more confident that I will like it. I wish apple would post a video but time will tell. Now new mac pros with the new Final Cut Pro...yes please!
 

MacFly123

macrumors 68020
Dec 25, 2006
2,340
0
0
"However, this does not mean these other applications are dead - simply that Apple is not talking about them... yet."

So maybe this explains the low price point. $299 for Final Cut Pro X and $999 for the full suite? I hope not. All looks amazing though!
Dude, this software is simply INCREDIBLE!!! It is worth so much more than $999.00 it is not even funny! If they sell each separate for $299 or $999 for the whole suite then that is an awesome deal with more options for individual purchase than before. I CAN'T WAIT to see the rest of the suite especially the new Motion with Shake baked in :) I was a bit nervous that the other apps were dead so this is GREAT news!

I also think this is the end of Final Cut Express. It makes perfect sense. iMovie = Free, Final Cut Pro X = $299, or if you are a pro you will get the whole suite for the same $999 price as before. Simple and better deals all around for everyone!
 

MacinDoc

macrumors 68020
Mar 22, 2004
2,263
5
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The Great White North
Dude, this software is simply INCREDIBLE!!! It is worth so much more than $999.00 it is not even funny! If they sell each separate for $299 or $999 for the whole suite then that is an awesome deal with more options for individual purchase than before. I CAN'T WAIT to see the rest of the suite especially the new Motion with Shake baked in :) I was a bit nervous that the other apps were dead so this is GREAT news!

I also think this is the end of Final Cut Express. It makes perfect sense. iMovie = Free, Final Cut Pro X = $299, or if you are a pro you will get the whole suite for the same $999 price as before. Simple and better deals all around for everyone!
Agreed, at this price point, I can't see that there would be any market for FCE.