Nostromo
macrumors 65816
Good article.
Rumors may be nice entertainment in times of no news, but one should always be aware they are just rumors.
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Final Cut Studio Update Scaled Back and Delayed?
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Good article.
Rumors may be nice entertainment in times of no news, but one should always be aware they are just rumors.
marmotmammal
macrumors member
Probably doesn't matter to a lot of filmmakers
A lot of feature and documentary filmmakers probably don't care about any of this, don't even know about MacRumors, and don't keep up on all this techie stuff. These are the people who will sustain FCP for years to come, even if Jobs pulled the plug today. And who knows, he might just do that.
The content-oriented filmmaker isn't so concerned about tools, and probably has works-in-progress, and a viable editing station. They don't care about transcoding or native....."just get the footage on the timeline so I can see what I have."
These filmmakers will continue to need a talent pool, and although the techies in the pool want to switch to CS5 or MC5 and be wooed with GPU, CUDA, AMA and 64-bit, the filmmaker, again, just wants to see the freakin' footage!
A lot of folks still use "old" gear like the HVX200, EX cams, and Letus adapters, and don't even touch a B&H catalog, as long as they can tell a story and create an HD product. They're not high-tech resistors...they're simply uninterested.
Hence, it'll be several years until the last light goes out on FCP, and that's if Jobs pulls the plug today.
A lot of feature and documentary filmmakers probably don't care about any of this, don't even know about MacRumors, and don't keep up on all this techie stuff. These are the people who will sustain FCP for years to come, even if Jobs pulled the plug today. And who knows, he might just do that.
The content-oriented filmmaker isn't so concerned about tools, and probably has works-in-progress, and a viable editing station. They don't care about transcoding or native....."just get the footage on the timeline so I can see what I have."
These filmmakers will continue to need a talent pool, and although the techies in the pool want to switch to CS5 or MC5 and be wooed with GPU, CUDA, AMA and 64-bit, the filmmaker, again, just wants to see the freakin' footage!
A lot of folks still use "old" gear like the HVX200, EX cams, and Letus adapters, and don't even touch a B&H catalog, as long as they can tell a story and create an HD product. They're not high-tech resistors...they're simply uninterested.
Hence, it'll be several years until the last light goes out on FCP, and that's if Jobs pulls the plug today.
Nobody Wants updates every Month.
I do not recall anybody complaining because there are not monthly updates.
it has been 34 moths actually that Final Cut Studio got a real upgrade. Because the last one was so lame that should have been free. it broke Compressor and is full of bugs.
In regards to iToys for Pro Work. well I got to say that I will use them as such when I can do with them what I can do now with a Fully Loaded Mac Pro.
I do not recall anybody complaining because there are not monthly updates.
it has been 34 moths actually that Final Cut Studio got a real upgrade. Because the last one was so lame that should have been free. it broke Compressor and is full of bugs.
In regards to iToys for Pro Work. well I got to say that I will use them as such when I can do with them what I can do now with a Fully Loaded Mac Pro.
I think you are sorely mistaken. All the "techy" stuff translates to things like working with more layers, and doing it in real time. These are things even a non-techie understands very well. Speed is king.
These people might use old tools because it's all they can afford, but when their mac breaks or an OS update causes it to become unstable and they are forced to upgrade, it's easy enough to switch to a faster, more stable NLE from an Apple competitor.
Why, when that time comes, would they invest in an Apple tool that is years old on "pro" hardware that is 2x as expensive? That's another thing indies and non-techies understand: cost.
lol - TV shows might still use it and some commercial stuff might still use it, but all the feature film stuff that needs to be in 4k I doubt is being done in FCP - you think people are going to edit in lower res for final proof and then export EDL or XML files to another app (MC) to get the 4k done?! Maybe for the rushes in low res they might use FCP, but no way for the final output as it's more work!
Most independents doing stuff for commercials and other small stuff still use FCP, but the big effects houses are going to be moving on.
For any feature film with loads of assets (anything with VFX), FCP just doesn't cut it, because it's crap at asset management - there are plugins to do it, but they do a half-assed job. MC has very good built-in tools.
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
If Apple EOL'd FCP today I'm sure some people would still use it for years to come in much the same way that Shake is still around even though development ceased in '06. But as technology changes faster the software ages faster as well. The guys that are really 'content only' in my experience require more support (like Assistant Editors) because things are just getting more and more complicated. In the days of SD there were pretty much two workflows for capture. Either you used FW or you used a capture card and standard video hook-ups. SD was either NTSC or PAL. The world was simple. Now, dang near every camera has a different workflow. Red is different from the HVX200 which is different from the EX1 which is different from the XLH1 which is different from the 7D.
Editors either adapt, are lucky enough to have support personal around them to handle the technical things or they end up on sites like Creative COW having an exchange that goes something like this:
Person A: Hey, I just got some footage from a Canon 7D camera and can't figure out how to get it into FCP.
COW Member: You need to download the Canon plugin and use FCP's Log and Transfer tool.
Person A: I have to download more software? Why can't I just drop the files in the timeline?
COW Member: The camera records in H.264 which FCP doesn't like. Even if FCP did like it it is a very CPU intensive codec to use and performance wouldn't be very good compared to other codecs.
Person A: I started transferring the footage but noticed that the files FCP is making are huge. Is that normal? I don't think I'll have enough space for all the footage.
COW Member: FCP transcodes the footage into ProRes because ProRes is a better format than H.264 for editing with. Harddrie space is cheap so just buy more.
Person A: Man, all I wanted to do is edit some footage not waste so much time downloading software, importing files and having to buy new hard drives. I miss how simple it all was with my DVX100.
That's pretty much how it's done regardless of NLE. The creative cut is done at lower res and after it's locked you kick out a cut list (EDL or XML) and online the movie at a higher res using something like Assimilate's Scratch. Also, most DI's are still done at 2K AFAIK and it's still exceedingly rare for digital cameras to shoot anything above 1920x1080. I'm not saying that FCP's 4K limit isn't something that needs to be fixed but it's not really a glaring issue right now.
Lethal
Well Said
And Please Do not forget the Flock of DSLR. A Pain to edith with FCPro. and a piece of cake in CS5 due to its Native Support. Jerry Buckheimer Has Been Using them A lot lately, so has SNL. just to mention some.
And Please Do not forget the Flock of DSLR. A Pain to edith with FCPro. and a piece of cake in CS5 due to its Native Support. Jerry Buckheimer Has Been Using them A lot lately, so has SNL. just to mention some.
marmotmammal
macrumors member
Filmmakers are or should be aware of all the different cameras and formats available these days. Many keep it simple by shooting consistently with the same type of camera and format whether it's theirs or outsourced, and the smart ones make that clear when recruiting. I always see ads with specific requests, e.g., 5D, HVX, Red, etc., and don't respond if you don't have the goods. Hence, the Creative Cow scenario is avoided. It doesn't have to be complicated.
Cow guy Must Be An Apple's Funboy.
I would have said Get CS5 in a week you should be editing like a pro with it. end of story.
as for not Many cameras capable of shooting beyond HD. I Must ask. have you been under a rock? NO Offense. There are between 30-50k Red Ones out there. not counting Phantoms, Alexas and the others. I would not call that Exceedingly Rare. FYI they Shoot 3-5K
I would have said Get CS5 in a week you should be editing like a pro with it. end of story.
as for not Many cameras capable of shooting beyond HD. I Must ask. have you been under a rock? NO Offense. There are between 30-50k Red Ones out there. not counting Phantoms, Alexas and the others. I would not call that Exceedingly Rare. FYI they Shoot 3-5K
I was mainly targeting feature films with that comment - what you say is true with regards to other stuff, but a lot of compositing for feature films is done at 4k, so surely they'd stick with that res for the online?
Maybe just get the composited footage in proxy 2k and use that then swap it out for the 4k conform in Scratch? Then again, 2k is good enough for 35mm film output, so... just seems a bit odd to have the 4k intermediate step...
Also, isn't FCP limited to 2k?
Well should Final Cut Pro go the way of the dodo this might be an interesting alternative:
Lightworks
Has any one used it before?
Editshare Flow might also be a good alternative to Final Cut Server
Thoughts?
Lightworks
Has any one used it before?
Editshare Flow might also be a good alternative to Final Cut Server
Thoughts?
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
Usually those ads are from the producers of the video and the next ad posted is going to be looking specifically for editors familiar with 5D, HVX, Red, etc.,. 😉 Of course there are a number of one man bands and shops that shoot w/the same stable of camera but many (most?) editors aren't involved in the decision of which cameras are used and are just handed the shot footage. I guess my overall point is everyone is impacted by changes in technology and software even if not everyone argues about the minutia of it on the internet.
Besides Red, Alexas, SI-2K and Phantom (all low volume cameras) what other digital cameras shoot above 1080 (NHK's prototype cameras don't count 😉)? All of Panasonic's HD cameras, all of Canon's HD cameras, all of Sony's HD camera's, the Viper, the Genesis, etc., all top out at 1080. I wasn't meaning to imply that there are literally only 2 or 3 digital cameras in existence in the whole world that shoot beyond HD. Taking in the entire digital video landscape as a whole, though, recording beyond HD is a pretty rare thing.
One would assume they'd used the highest res available for the VFX plates but that still doesn't mean you need the highest res available for the offline edit. FCP's timelines are limited to 4000x4000 pixels and 4K is something like 4096x2304. Of course if are working w/Red footage you can just use a one of the smaller proxy's for the offline cut and then just switch to the full res 4K for VFX and finishing.
I haven't used Editshare's products personally but I've read very good things about them.
macintoshtoffy
macrumors 6502a
Quicktime X and QuickTime the framework are two entirely different things. The 64bit QuickTime framework, aka QtKit has been available since 10.5 with Quicktime X moving over to QtKit in Snow Leopard.
If they are moving to QtKit it probably requires a large amount of re-writing from old Carbon code to the new Cocoa way of doing things (if you're going to do a job, do it right rather than a half baked bridging approach that Adobe take). I'd also put money on it they're going to take advantage of OpenCL for video encoding, Grand Central Dispatch for making it heavily multithreaded and so on.
With this extensive use of such technologies I wouldn't be surprised if they tripped over bugs just as Microsoft's use of Direct2D/DirectWrite has exposed some major bugs in the API's itself as well as drivers provided by OEM's. You don't really expose bugs until you start using the API's itself in the real world so if there is a move to Final Cut release in 2011 it'll probably require at least 10.6.6 or 10.6.7 at the minimum with it being 100% Intel based and most likely 100% 64bit and skip 32bit version altogether.
johnmcboston
macrumors 6502
Well, if the FCS folks are unhappy, what about we FC Express folks. last time FCS was updated, FCX got nothing. Nothing since 2006. I thin we've been put out to pasture...
macintoshtoffy
macrumors 6502a
I think that is a combination of bad communication and wanting to keep this 'mystic' of having things secret and revealing them at the last minute - such a company position is stupid IMHO because it doesn't benefit anyone in the long run especially those of us who like to have a stable long term plan to know when we spend x number of dollars on a piece of equipment there is actually going to be long term support.
OldCorpse
macrumors 68000
I don't get it.
Can someone please explain this to me?
FACT: Leopard was delayed because Apple pulled off engineers to work on the iPhone.
RUMOR: Apple is dragging their feet on pro apps because they are concentrating on iapps.
FACT: Apple has a gazillion $$$ socked away.
FACT: Apple has let go a bunch of FCS people a while back.
Why in the world does it have to be an either/or question? Why can't Apple develop both the OS and the iPhone AT THE SAME TIME? Why can't Apple develop both the pro apps and the iapps AT THE SAME TIME? Why can't they hire more engineers to work on the iPhone, instead of pulling existing ones off of the OS team? It cannot be a question of money - other than MSFT, they are sitting on the biggest pile of cash - what better way to spend the money than to keep up with your business expenses? Is it that there are not enough qualified engineers out there to hire? How can that be? If talent scarcity was the problem why did they just let a bunch of FCS folks go?
I don't understand this either-or mentality. Can't they chew gum and walk at the same time? It's a huge freakin' company sitting on a mountain of cash.
Seems exceedingly short-sighted to me to give pro apps short shrift instead of hiring more people. And we know, as a fact, confirmed by Apple officially, that Leopard was delayed because they pulled engineers off to work on the iPhone. I get it - the iPhone is important, but then why not hire MORE people, instead of pulling away people from the also important work on the very foundations of your operating system?
Can somebody please explain this? Maybe someone familiar with development management and budgeting... or just speculate.
Can someone please explain this to me?
FACT: Leopard was delayed because Apple pulled off engineers to work on the iPhone.
RUMOR: Apple is dragging their feet on pro apps because they are concentrating on iapps.
FACT: Apple has a gazillion $$$ socked away.
FACT: Apple has let go a bunch of FCS people a while back.
Why in the world does it have to be an either/or question? Why can't Apple develop both the OS and the iPhone AT THE SAME TIME? Why can't Apple develop both the pro apps and the iapps AT THE SAME TIME? Why can't they hire more engineers to work on the iPhone, instead of pulling existing ones off of the OS team? It cannot be a question of money - other than MSFT, they are sitting on the biggest pile of cash - what better way to spend the money than to keep up with your business expenses? Is it that there are not enough qualified engineers out there to hire? How can that be? If talent scarcity was the problem why did they just let a bunch of FCS folks go?
I don't understand this either-or mentality. Can't they chew gum and walk at the same time? It's a huge freakin' company sitting on a mountain of cash.
Seems exceedingly short-sighted to me to give pro apps short shrift instead of hiring more people. And we know, as a fact, confirmed by Apple officially, that Leopard was delayed because they pulled engineers off to work on the iPhone. I get it - the iPhone is important, but then why not hire MORE people, instead of pulling away people from the also important work on the very foundations of your operating system?
Can somebody please explain this? Maybe someone familiar with development management and budgeting... or just speculate.
one word... "GREED"
the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, thats how it works, the higher ups just want to allocate more money into their pockets and they do it to the point of collapsing a company but never REALLY let it collapse all the way
Not Surprised at all.
I was not aware of that but I am not surprised either. nothing since 2006 WOOOW that is a Long time. you must really like FCX. This goes to show how Important we are to apple. (we as Pro users). I guess we are not profitable anymore. Stevo you are a traitor.
I was not aware of that but I am not surprised either. nothing since 2006 WOOOW that is a Long time. you must really like FCX. This goes to show how Important we are to apple. (we as Pro users). I guess we are not profitable anymore. Stevo you are a traitor.
Because He got You by the BALLS
Stevo Knows he got the Pro Apps/Hardware User by the BALLS with a tight Grip and you wil not leave. I Say Proof him wrong, Jump the Ship like I did (well not there 100% yet but working on it). QT and PRO Apps are the Fundation of apple's presence in the Broadcast industry, with those two gone. apple will be Like Nokia a Consumer Electronics Company. Happily making iToys.
Stevo Knows he got the Pro Apps/Hardware User by the BALLS with a tight Grip and you wil not leave. I Say Proof him wrong, Jump the Ship like I did (well not there 100% yet but working on it). QT and PRO Apps are the Fundation of apple's presence in the Broadcast industry, with those two gone. apple will be Like Nokia a Consumer Electronics Company. Happily making iToys.
I Still Stand.
The fact that there are about 100,000 people shooting 5k out there it is not rare. What are you talking about? Plus. Do not forget RED will launch affordable 3k-5k Cameras anytime know. it is estimated that they will sell 100's of thousands. and I bet most of them will go either Avid or CS5 wich just happen to support them natively.
The fact that there are about 100,000 people shooting 5k out there it is not rare. What are you talking about? Plus. Do not forget RED will launch affordable 3k-5k Cameras anytime know. it is estimated that they will sell 100's of thousands. and I bet most of them will go either Avid or CS5 wich just happen to support them natively.
charlituna
macrumors G3
There is information to strongly suggest that they were Carbon programmers and thus no longer of use. NOT that Apple was dumping the Suite
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
You are either grossly misinformed or completely off your rocker and considering your previous posts I'm going w/the latter.
Lethal
Prove it but not with saliva but Facts.
To say grossly misinformed means that I must be from 70 to 90% off. wich would mean that there are only 10,000 Beyond HD capable Cameras in the whole wide world. I find that hard to believe. FYI There are about 9 cameras capable or recording beyond HD.
So why do not you enlighten us by Proving it. but not with saliva but with Facts and I will gladly take it back. Give me the Numbers and links.
and about my other posts. Prove me wrong.
To say grossly misinformed means that I must be from 70 to 90% off. wich would mean that there are only 10,000 Beyond HD capable Cameras in the whole wide world. I find that hard to believe. FYI There are about 9 cameras capable or recording beyond HD.
So why do not you enlighten us by Proving it. but not with saliva but with Facts and I will gladly take it back. Give me the Numbers and links.
and about my other posts. Prove me wrong.
All 35mm cameras are "beyond HD" and although I don't know the statistics, I guess that majority of feature films made on this planet, are still made with 35mm film.
Anyway, I think the "news" that are topic of this thread are BS,
but they show the consern of people about the topic.
FCS3 "update" was first time in decade that FCP slipped "pre-NAB every other year" schedule.
And it was so unsignificant, that it looks like it was done only to keep userbase calm.
No FCE upgrade for 4 years.
No DVDSP upgrade for 6 years.
No real upgrade for Color for 3 years. (Where's that support for nvidia, STILL?)
To make me happy, I need something more than Stevo saying "next will be awesome".
(Although it's nice that even he doesn't think the last one was awesome...)
My fear is if I need to abandon FCS, do I also need abandon OsX and also Macs?
Only option is then windows? SCARY!