Final Cut Updates in March or April? Xserve Controversy and Jobs on Blu-ray

[Gemütlichkeit]

I don't care about blueray simply because I don't watch/buy movies.

If it's going to raise the price of the macbook's then I'd much rather it not be included (more reason to buy the Air?)

My latest PC build doesn't even have a drive. I installed windows via thumb drive and download all my games via Steam.

 

[Stella]

it's not the drive, you have to add DRM to the OS. it's probably a big deal since a lot of OS X is open source and it's against the BD consortium's rules to release the source code for the DRM

Just because something is 'open source' doesn't mean you have to release the source code. GNU Public license requires you to release source code for any changes you make ; I'm very sure that either Apache or BSD license does not require the same.

Apple should avoid using o/s products that use GNU licenses for 'sensitive' components. In fact, many companies avoid GNU licensed products like the plague, it can be a 'bag of hurt'!

So, Apple could integrate the DRM quite easily, if they really wanted to.

Blue Ray in OSX would be great. I have many High Def movies from my HD camera that I'd love to put on to a BluRay disk and give to other people. Digital often isn't practical for these people.

 

[Winni]

it's not the drive, you have to add DRM to the OS. it's probably a big deal since a lot of OS X is open source and it's against the BD consortium's rules to release the source code for the DRM

This is not even remotely an argument.

Did you find Apple's own DRM implementation anywhere in Darwin, which would be the Open Source parts of Mac OS X? No, you didn't. Why? Because those DRM layers are somewhere in the proprietary parts of the OS that they won't ever show you.

Must Apple Open Source anything from their OS? No. Why? Because the relevant platform parts are based upon code that was released under the BSD license, which allows for closing the source code.

 

[KnightWRX]

In 4 or 5 years Blu-ray will probably be relegated to the heap along with DVDs. Though I don't believe they will go quite as swiftly or decisively as VHS tapes, they will be outmoded by a new, better format that doesn't require motors, lights, or rubber bands to make it work.

Yeah, remember back when we had CDs to listen to music ? Oh wait...

Optical media is here to stay for quite a while longer than your projected 4-5 years. DVD is still the king for movies, CDs for audio, nothing downloaded even approach the numbers. Blu-ray is still climbing the charts. In 4-5 years, I think we'll finally reach the point where Blu-ray is defacto and DVD is on the decline.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

I suspect Blu-ray's lack of support on Apple to be a certain pain with professionals, but in actuality with the average consumer it is nothing worthy of any distress.

In 4 or 5 years Blu-ray will probably be relegated to the heap along with DVDs. Though I don't believe they will go quite as swiftly or decisively as VHS tapes, they will be outmoded by a new, better format that doesn't require motors, lights, or rubber bands to make it work.

exactly, what Jobs doesn't understand is that while streaming may be better for the everyday consumer, Blu-ray is still better for the professional. The storage capacity of this media is exactly what we need for higher end video and larger files.

Sure the cost per disc is a bit outrageous right now but as technology increases and demand for them rises, we'll see the price reflect as well.

Including BR drives as a standard is definitely unnecessary, but as an option to be installed on a custom machine is the way to go!

 

[tjanuranus]

so how am i supposed to watch movies at home?

are you serious?

 

[puckhead193]

i really hope FCP doesn't become a consumer/prosumer product.

 

[Heinekev]

I'm confused; they discontinue the product because very few people are buying it, so who's creating the "turmoil" over the issue?

Is it just a very vocal minority, or is there something else I'm missing...?

Every single Xserve sits behind an army of client machines... so while they may not sell that many, the impact is much larger than a simple discontinuation. The vocal minority is likely not a minority at all. I have 8 xserves spread through 4 data centers that serve as authentication servers for ~9,000 macs. Rest assured I have sent my thoughts to Apple on the discontinuation of the Xserve.

I can't put a Mac Pro in a datacenter. It doesn't work like that. And in the enterprise, there's no such thing as a production server that sits under someones desk.

While those technical issues suck, the other issue here is that Apple is discontinuing an enterprise marketed product with under a years notice. That's bad. Very bad. Many companies have hedged their OS X Support bets on the Xserve product and to pull their solution without offering a reasonable amount of time to determine a migration strategy is just bad. No respectable company should do that.

 

[KnightWRX]

Meanwhile, a friend at the church wanted a copy of my footage, so I gave him the memory card. He simply opened up the card in his Windows 7 computer, navigated to the .MTS video files, and copied them onto his hard drive. This took about 10 minutes. He then opened up Premiere, dragged one of the .MTS files onto the timeline, and was able to immediately scrub the timeline and view the footage I'd shot.

Doesn't the Mac version of premiere support AVCHD ? That means you don't need Windows 7 on your Mac, you just need to get rid of iMovie.

 

[thejd]

Many of us are correct, along with SJ, in saying that BD support is much more complicated than it appears. The drive is one thing, but keep in mind those updates we all download to our BD players every few months. They are masked as "Firmware" updates but in reality are nothing more than glorified copyright/decryption scripts. Do you honestly think Apple wants to be bound to an external body who would force them to release an OsX.x.x update just for the ability for a small user segment to be able to play the latest batch of BDiscs?

I used to edit video on Avid Express Pro and could never update Quicktime or OsX without getting the go-ahead from Avid as their software was never compatible with the newest feature set or fix released from Apple. And I was a single user on my own system, not in a shared environment using other third party software and hardware that has its own compatibility issues and restrictions. I imagine the average user would not want to look on the back of a BD for the disclaimer, "Will not work with Quicktime Version X.x or older and OsX.x.x or older".

 

[ILMSTMF]

The iTunes HD stuff is pretty weak IMO.

I haven't seen it so I can't comment. But I think I saw HD movies in iTunes going around $5? Am I right? It's a...fair price. But there is OBVIOUSLY heavy compression to get the file size down. Yeah, broadband internet is capable and faster than it was even as short as 5 years ago but...the download time has got to be in excess of 10 minutes. For a compressed HD movie. If Apple was selling Blu-Ray downloads (just for argument's sake), I'm sure no one would want to be bothered downloading at least 12GB. By that time, spend the extra $10 and buy the damn disc. Or, better yet, Netflix or Blockbuster and get Blu-Ray by mail for ~$10 a month then use your home theater to enjoy FullHD video and better sound. How does this NOT make sense?
Blu-Ray playback on the Mac, I don't care so much. As I said, I'd rather enjoy any Blu-Ray (commercial or homegrown) in the home theater. Blu-Ray AUTHORING, on the other hand, I am very hopeful for.
That's what sets aside the use of native Blu-Ray in OSX between the casual and pro user.

 

[sudo rm -rf /]

it's not the drive, you have to add DRM to the OS. it's probably a big deal since a lot of OS X is open source and it's against the BD consortium's rules to release the source code for the DRM

If this is true, why don't they just make the DRM portion closed source?


<RANT>
On a more controversial note, IMHO, DRM is pointless. Keeping honest people honest is a silly argument; they aren't honest if they want to pirate your content.
I don't have a solution to the problem, but I'm claiming that DRM is not it.
</RANT>

 

[DJ Dilbert]

Yeah, remember back when we had CDs to listen to music ? Oh wait...

Optical media is here to stay for quite a while longer than your projected 4-5 years. DVD is still the king for movies, CDs for audio, nothing downloaded even approach the numbers. Blu-ray is still climbing the charts. In 4-5 years, I think we'll finally reach the point where Blu-ray is defacto and DVD is on the decline.

I agree, 4-5 years is not reasonable. Maybe like 5-10 when the majority of consumers have portable devices like the iPod and a wireless communication in homes is a standard, not just between people but other devices as well. Also when we start to see more and more car manufacturers adding AUX inputs / iPod connection ports / built-in hard drives and removing disc players is when we will see discs go the way of VHS and tape decks.

But that is easily going to be much later in this decade.

 

[KnightWRX]

Many of us are correct, along with SJ, in saying that BD support is much more complicated than it appears. The drive is one thing, but keep in mind those updates we all download to our BD players every few months. They are masked as "Firmware" updates but in reality are nothing more than glorified copyright/decryption scripts. Do you honestly think Apple wants to be bound to an external body who would force them to release an OsX.x.x update just for the ability for a small user segment to be able to play the latest batch of BDiscs?

Why release OS updates ? Just release AACS updates on their own, no need to increment the OS X version number at all.

The fact is, AACS support is the only thing that is lacking in OS X currently to enable Blu-ray playback. The rest of the DRM scheme is the same thing used by iTunes.

 

[SeattleMoose]

The Word "Awesome"....

is so overused and tired......

 

[DJ Dilbert]

Every single Xserve sits behind an army of client machines... so while they may not sell that many, the impact is much larger than a simple discontinuation. The vocal minority is likely not a minority at all. I have 8 xserves spread through 4 data centers that serve as authentication servers for ~9,000 macs. Rest assured I have sent my thoughts to Apple on the discontinuation of the Xserve.

I can't put a Mac Pro in a datacenter. It doesn't work like that. And in the enterprise, there's no such thing as a production server that sits under someones desk.

While those technical issues suck, the other issue here is that Apple is discontinuing an enterprise marketed product with under a years notice. That's bad. Very bad. Many companies have hedged their OS X Support bets on the Xserve product and to pull their solution without offering a reasonable amount of time to determine a migration strategy is just bad. No respectable company should do that.

Good point, let's just hope that in the smoke of this fire we will see a new and better product to be it's successor. And not a Mac Pro Server. A MP Server is good for a school's computer lab but not a major company.

 

[Poll Smoker]

Also, I'm keenly aware that some "professionals" complain when anything consumerish touches their programs. See Aperture 3 and the fringe whining about how they added 'Faces' to it. Guess what, you don't have to use 'Faces' in Aperture if you don't want to. Get over yourself.

Get over yourself, *******.

The issue is Apple devoting time/resources towards adding these gimmicks to their "pro" apps, while neglecting real features.

 

[BJB Productions]

Please Mr. Jobs. Don't ruin Final Cut.

"We've decided to combine the magic of IOS with Final Cut."

 

[DJ Dilbert]

Splitting up a sentence into the subject

is so overused and tired......

and message is pissing me off.

 

[nefan65]

I don't care about blueray simply because I don't watch/buy movies.

If it's going to raise the price of the macbook's then I'd much rather it not be included (more reason to buy the Air?)

My latest PC build doesn't even have a drive. I installed windows via thumb drive and download all my games via Steam.

Same here. I have zero interest in BR on a laptop, desktop, et-al. I cringe when my wife says she wants to buy a movie. If I've seen it once, I'm done. I never found the fascination with owning movies really. Music is different, but it's all downloadable and on my iPhone, and/or iPod/iMac/MBP...

 

[notjustjay]

Doesn't the Mac version of premiere support AVCHD ? That means you don't need Windows 7 on your Mac, you just need to get rid of iMovie.

This is an option I had not considered - I will look into it. Thanks.

What I want to be able to do, ultimately, is copy a library of .MTS files directly from the memory cards of my new camera, instead of having to import entire cards at a time (or, the standard OS X workaround, create .DMG files of individual memory cards). Then be able to preview, playback, and import .MTS files to edit.

 

[BJB Productions]

On a more serious note though- I really hope they don't ruin FCP. It's so outdated I've been tempted many a time to switch to Premier Pro. Heck, iMovie can do more than Final Cut can when it comes to codecs. Lame.

 

[iSlave]

Long past caring. Just ditch the Mac and build an i7 PC with Win7 and stop deluding yourselves and wasting money thinking that a Mac is somehow better. Once maybe, but not anymore. Blu-ray and gaming into the bargain as well.

Come on, time to wake up.

 

[KnightWRX]

This is an option I had not considered - I will look into it. Thanks.

You're in luck Adobe offers free full-featured previews of their apps then, you can download them off their site. You can then just register the app with an approved serial number if it does what you need.

Same here. I have zero interest in BR on a laptop, desktop, et-al. I cringe when my wife says she wants to buy a movie. If I've seen it once, I'm done. I never found the fascination with owning movies really. Music is different, but it's all downloadable and on my iPhone, and/or iPod/iMac/MBP...

I've watched Teggen Toppa Gurren-Lagann, a 27 episode series, about 10 times now. I'll watch it again and again. Kinda got my money's worth for 50$.

Different strokes for different folks. Obviously not everyone thinks like you.

 

[thejd]

Why release OS updates ? Just release AACS updates on their own, no need to increment the OS X version number at all.

The fact is, AACS support is the only thing that is lacking in OS X currently to enable Blu-ray playback. The rest of the DRM scheme is the same thing used by iTunes.

I work in live production now instead of post so please pardon my question; what is AACS?

Wouldn't updating even a basic decoding set have the potential to disrupt whatever else QT affects? I mean, not just iLife, but Finder itself would be disrupted to an extent (stuck trying to preview a movie file) if some code was wacky in a BD update.