First Arm-Based Macs to Be 13-Inch MacBook Pro and Redesigned iMac, Launches Coming in Late 2020 or Early 2021

[Azrael9]

A lot of Mac games now use Cider/Wine/etc. to essentially mimic portions of Windows. That’ll go away, as ARM Windows games basically aren’t a thing.

So yeah, could be a big blow to games.

They can buy a PS5 for a 1/3rd of the price of a 2080Ti and an expensive PC rig.

Mac ARM with access to the iOS sphere ie the same architecture does matter. Or will. With Marzipan and Apple Arcade it will open the floodgate to iPad games.

As for triple AAA games. They'll have to port to Metal to have access to the $$$ 'i' platform and app store.

'Mac' games have a better future under Mac ARM than the poxy 2nd rate degredation of the Open GL middleware ports with half the performance of the PC windows counterparts.

Mac devs who turn up will actually 'want' to be there on this under the 'new' Mac 'gaming' future. Not throwing us crumbs.

Azrael.

 

[DeepIn2U]

It would be nice to see an ARM 13” MacBook Pri perform better than an Intel 16” MacBook Pro.

With Apple choosing it's own chips to be released in a low end portable model, ARM_MBP13 has me VERY concerned. This tells me the performance is not ready to compete with a quad-core Intel Core i7 in such that only the U spec chips will be competitive against.

If you recall, Intel was able to compete with the TOP PowerPC G5 in a Mac Pro, ON-STAGE no less as well and no hiccups or errors shown on the live stream. THAT to me speaks huge volumes. Also shows me that competitive high end software by Apple (Logic X Pro, Final Cut Pro, Garageband, and Xcode is ALL not ready for this).

Even with the Power PC G3/G4 cpu's debuted in the top end PowerMac on their debut. This move speaks like Apple should NOT be announcing anything at all.

Also without real hardware being in development across the lineup, I fear Intel will be super upset and punish Apple's existing lineup supply chain with lessor chips, and may surprise other customers with 7nm Core processors.

Personally I need Windows 10 (x86/64) compatibility. I also feel this is Apple's full move to secure their OS from the hacking community (Clover etc) for loading on non-Apple hardware.

 

[Azrael9]

The point is ARM is being used in supercomputers and blowing away the completion in performance and energy efficiency. And this is at it’s infancy in this sector, imagine when it matures in the next few iterations?

ARM. It's the Tsunami or Death Star that will sweep away the remnants of the old x86 republic.

Azrael.

 

[Falhófnir]

They can buy a PS5 for a 1/3rd of the price of a 2080Ti and an expensive PC rig.

Mac ARM with access to the iOS sphere ie the same architecture does matter. Or will. With Marzipan and Apple Arcade it will open the floodgate to iPad games.

As for triple AAA games. They'll have to port to Metal to have access to the $$$ 'i' platform and app store.

'Mac' games have a better future under Mac ARM than the poxy 2nd rate degredation of the Open GL middleware ports with half the performance of the PC windows counterparts.

Mac devs will want to be there under the 'new' future. Not throwing us crumbs.

Azrael.

If Apple can create a system that lets developers target both the (entire) Mac and iPad markets with one port that's probably going to be a lot more interesting to big game studios than making a Mac version specifically for the fraction of the Mac market which currently has dedicated graphics - I've always thought this is a big factor in why Mac has struggled with games, the machines that are up to the job are a fraction of the Mac market, let alone the overall PC market!

 

[Azrael9]

With Apple choosing it's own chips to be released in a low end portable model, ARM_MBP13 has me VERY concerned. This tells me the performance is not ready to compete with a quad-core Intel Core i7 in such that only the U spec chips will be competitive against.

If you recall, Intel was able to compete with the TOP PowerPC G5 in a Mac Pro, ON-STAGE no less as well and no hiccups or errors shown on the live stream. THAT to me speaks huge volumes. Also shows me that competitive high end software by Apple (Logic X Pro, Final Cut Pro, Garageband, and Xcode is ALL not ready for this).

Even with the Power PC G3/G4 cpu's debuted in the top end PowerMac on their debut. This move speaks like Apple should NOT be announcing anything at all.

Also without real hardware being in development across the lineup, I fear Intel will be super upset and punish Apple's existing lineup supply chain with lessor chips, and may surprise other customers with 7nm Core processors.

Personally I need Windows 10 (x86/64) compatibility. I also feel this is Apple's full move to secure their OS from the hacking community (Clover etc) for loading on non-Apple hardware.

The 13 inch Macbook Pro is very much a consumer laptop £1300.

As is the 24 inch (muted) iMac. £1250.

That covers £££ of the Mac sales.

So A14x goes into them 1st.

Yes. The intel cpu did debut for devs on the Mac Tower as a 'beta' piece of kit to get porting.

I wonder if they'll use the Mac Pro this time....with Mac ARM chips in them. (I doubt it. It will likely be another machine...perhaps a preview iMac 24 incher 'Beta' to get 'portin' their apps on.)

Azrael.
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If Apple can create a system that lets developers target both the (entire) Mac and iPad markets with one port that's probably going to be a lot more interesting to big game studios than making a Mac version specifically for the fraction of the Mac market which currently has dedicated graphics - I've always thought this is a big factor in why Mac has struggled with games, the machines that are up to the job are a fraction of the Mac market, let alone the overall PC market!

That's what Marzipan is really about. Write once. Deploy for 'pointer' or 'touch'. 'Done.'

It's Metal or the highway.

Metal is a huge market. This isn't Quickdraw3D. Or Kansas.

When Apple gets going with Mac ARM deployment...they're going to bury Intel.

Azrael.

 

[Dicelu]

It could still be 14" - Kuo said "similar to the 13.3" MBP form factor", not "exactly a 13.3" MBP form factor".

”similar” is just a very common word used for hedge-speak in the rumors/leaks world. Nobody in their right mind would use the word “exactly” in these situations. Heck, often, new gen Macbooks have slight differences in dimensions and thickness anyway, compared to previous gens.

So over-analyzing words from these rumors is pointless.

 

[Jyby]

Science Rules!

 

[CWallace]

With Apple choosing it's own chips to be released in a low end portable model, ARM_MBP13 has me VERY concerned. This tells me the performance is not ready to compete with a quad-core Intel Core i7 in such that only the U spec chips will be competitive against.

You have to start somewhere and let us not forget that the first two consumer Intel Macs were the MacBook Pro and iMac so there is precedent. As Azrael9 noted directly above me, these two models are likely a significant amount of Apple's laptop and desktop Mac sales and probably primarily used for "general purpose" applications where raw power is not important so they would be the two models most likely to sell well at first.

Also without real hardware being in development across the lineup, I fear Intel will be super upset and punish Apple's existing lineup supply chain with lessor chips, and may surprise other customers with 7nm Core processors.

A 7nm Core CPU that a 16" MacBook Pro or 27" iMac can use? Sure, in 2030 maybe.

Intel are struggling to adapt their 10nm process to anything that draws more than 25W (the Tiger Lake optimization of the current Ice Lake 10nm CPU family will still top out at 25W) and have already said that the 11th Generation CPUs that the MacBook Pro and iMac would use will still be at 14nm (Rocket Lake) and probably still pulling over 100W for the BTO models Apple would be using in a 27" iMac.

 

[JPack]

Maybe ARM is what they needed to power an amazing display. Perhaps they couldn’t update the display because Intel is hot and power hungry

That doesn't make any sense. If the Apple's processors were cool, they wouldn't need to use the MacBook Pro chassis and its ability to dissipate 45W. They would start ARM with the MacBook Air.

 

[rotlex]

Great. Was planning on buying a 13” Pro this week as a college/18th birthday gift for our daughter. Not really sure what to do now. This happened to me when they moved from PPC to Intel. In basically 2 years my power Mac was useless to me. Honestly. I think I need to start researching Windows machines. This is really really frustrating.

 

[Spungoflex]

So 2021 before an iMac re-design?!

Holy hell.

 

[Azrael9]

It came to the end of the road for the beloved PPC.

Destiny has a sense of irony...

...as Intel are going to be despatched in the same manner.

My only regret is that Steve Jobs isn't here to announce it with his 'humble Apple Pie' smile.

Azrael.
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So 2021 before an iMac re-design?!

Holy hell.

Only half a year away...

You can buy the Intel iMac refresh in the mean time...

Azrael.

 

[KPOM]

That doesn't make any sense. If the Apple's processors were cool, they wouldn't need to use the MacBook Pro chassis and its ability to dissipate 45W. They would start ARM with the MacBook Air.

The 13” MacBook Pro is designed for 25-28W chips. The base uses a stated 15W chip that tops out around 15W. The higher end uses one that can sustain 28W and tops out in the mid-30s.

 

[Spungoflex]

I remember all these highly intelligent, insightful people, pundits of every breed telling everyone going to ARM is so hard it's close to impossible, ARM processors can't cope with heavy desktop-level tasks, another gibberish to the effect of that. This is despite 2 preceding transitions in a row. The posed difficulty: re-writing code for another architecture. And, apparently, it wasn't Apple that re-wrote their code to port OS X to Intel, the Martians did that.
"Intelligent yet idiot".

The consensus on this forum used to be that there would NEVER be a retina iMac because graphics cards could never be powerful enough to support that many pixels.

2 years later, Apple came out with retina iMacs.

 

[KPOM]

With Apple choosing it's own chips to be released in a low end portable model, ARM_MBP13 has me VERY concerned. This tells me the performance is not ready to compete with a quad-core Intel Core i7 in such that only the U spec chips will be competitive against.

A lot of people were assuming Apple would start with the Air or even a revived 12” MacBook. If it’s true they will start with the 13” MacBook Pro and iMac (which were the first Intel models), that’s a sign they are confident in its performance.

Of course, we likely won’t find out tomorrow. Apple will just announce they are switching to their own chips, give a broad timeline, and perhaps announce a developer-only model that may bear no resemblance to a consumer product.

 

[Azrael9]

Great. Was planning on buying a 13” Pro this week as a college/18th birthday gift for our daughter. Not really sure what to do now. This happened to me when they moved from PPC to Intel. In basically 2 years my power Mac was useless to me. Honestly. I think I need to start researching Windows machines. This is really really frustrating.

Depends on what your budget is.

13 MBPro? £1300? But it will be a legacy machine. But. It will still be respectable. And see you well past the Mac ARM transition.

Wait until the WWDC announcement. And base upon what you need 'now.'

I 'can't' wait for a Mac ARM. My Intel iMac is dead. I need a new one.

I'm happy about Mac ARM. But I'll still buy the Intel iMac refresh. Which will be substantial.

So, you can still buy your daughter a lovely Mac laptop. Rather that than windows laptop hell...

Azrael.
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The consensus on this forum used to be that there would NEVER be a retina iMac because graphics cards could never be powerful enough to support that many pixels.

2 years later, Apple came out with retina iMacs.

Lol. I remember that.

I knew the retina iMac was coming.

And then I went and bought the machine a year before it. Late 2012 iMac. DU-OH!

Azrael.

 

[cult hero]

Hmmm. I went through the PPC to Intel switch and it wasn’t terrible. However I had to use Rosetta for MA Office and Adobe which was unpleasant.

The Intel machines were also less stable initially. I had the first gen MacBook and it was faster than my older PowerBook but was the only Mac I’ve ever owned with sleep/wake issues.

With the shared codebases running on iPads, the transition should probably be a lot easier this time around. MS Office and Adobe stuff is running on ARM already anyway. I’m really interested to see how smooth this transition is this time.

Apple has demonstrated that they can do chips and do them well.

I worry the Mac Pro people are going to get hosed again. New Pro is released right before an architectural change? Is that gonna sit for 4-5 years with no update again? Seems unlikely given all the hype leading up to those machines being released.

This will be interesting at least.

 

[Azrael9]

Apple isn't in the business of giving consumers the opposite of what they want.

The iPad is a top heavy design with no room for active cooling and crappy trackpad support.

It sure seems that way at times.

The iPad 'z' stand sucks for £300. This want to be hybrid product will be tidied up with the move to Mac ARM. I hope.

Still. £££ for a crappy keyboard stand. £££ for Apple profits.

As for the iPad? Star Trek technology. I'll be following it's progress with great interest.

Azrael.

 

[KPOM]

Great. Was planning on buying a 13” Pro this week as a college/18th birthday gift for our daughter. Not really sure what to do now. This happened to me when they moved from PPC to Intel. In basically 2 years my power Mac was useless to me. Honestly. I think I need to start researching Windows machines. This is really really frustrating.

I’d go with the 13” Pro. It can be converted to a Windows PC at any time. In the meantime, it runs macOS, and even if Apple releases a new ARM model next year, it will still likely receive OS updates for the next 3-4 years. Once she graduates, she can re-assess based on the market then.

 

[cult hero]

A lot of people were assuming Apple would start with the Air or even a revived 12” MacBook. If it’s true they will start with the 13” MacBook Pro and iMac (which were the first Intel models), that’s a sign they are confident in its performance.

The first Intel machines were 15” MacBook Pros. I believe that’s also when they were renamed from PowerBooks to MacBook Pros.

 

[smulji]

The first Intel machines were 15” MacBook Pros.

Yes.

 

[Falhófnir]

Maybe ARM is what they needed to power an amazing display. Perhaps they couldn’t update the display because Intel is hot and power hungry
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Remember if your phone is faster or almost as fast at the MBP (iPhone 11 Pro).. It is passively cool and don’t even burn your hands.. That says a lot compared to an air cooled intel macbook

Might be the HDR/XDR aspect of mini LED either requires, or is better using some hardware acceleration Intel's chips don't offer, but Apple's can (so they will be getting out ahead of the competition rather than waiting for Intel to incorporate this). Not sure as the Pro Display XDR works with Intel macs, but it's using different technology with many fewer dimming zones than mini LED is supposed to have.

 

[MikeSmoke]

I hope they take off the lid tomorrow and really show us a lot of information about the ARM Macs. It’s pretty exciting.

 

[cmaier]

As if Intel is the benchmark. AMD destroys Intel and can keep up with ARM server CPU with less cores.

So?

 

[Azrael9]

I’d go with the 13” Pro. It can be converted to a Windows PC at any time. In the meantime, it runs macOS, and even if Apple releases a new ARM model next year, it will still likely receive OS updates for the next 3-4 years. Once she graduates, she can re-assess based on the market then.

Yes. It can still run bootcamp and his daughter can have the 'best' of both worlds.

Azrael.