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I also wonder what this will mean for VMs. No support, or support with atrocious performance, or support with 'just' bad performance, or a better solution ? Hopefully, within a week, we will know.
My big question about this is whether the companies that make VM (like VMWare and Parallels) will bother retooling for Arm Macs. I'm not sure how their sales are, but their job probably isn't as difficult going from one OS to another that uses the same chipset, than translating to a different digital architecture. I remember an app I had for my old G5 Mac Pro that was able to run Windows flawlessly. So it's possible.
 
What an annoying time to be in the market for a new MacBook Pro...What am I to do?!?!

Very excited for the transition to better chips, but working out what to do with regards to my third party apps is a conundrum...
 
A lot more then 2% of people run Windows in a VM on there Mac and switching to ARM kills this. Every dev. I know runs Windows in a VM thats one reason why the Mac is so popular for development work and this kills a big thing for a lot of people.

I'd say most devs don't require windows... I think most require a local stack that's closely resembles what they run in the cloud. To me, that means Docker/Kubernetes and any container that runs in that ecosystem... and VIM :)
 
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Makes sense in a way, They can show off the power of their chips by having a Pro model receive them first. That being said I’ll still be getting the last intel model for starting university as there’s likely to be a year or two of issues with software compatibility
Yep, I'm very confident to be buying a MBP next week.
Would never buy a first-generation tech product.
 
Any news on the 14-inch MBP? I’m surprised they didn’t make the ARM MBP in a slimmer bezel.

It could still be 14" - Kuo said "similar to the 13.3" MBP form factor", not "exactly a 13.3" MBP form factor".

This might explain why the 13.3" received a spec bump recently and not replaced with a 14" model as has been rumored.


So, I guess the updated 16-inch this year will be a minor spec upgrade then next summer we could get the ARM version?
Unfortunate they didn't do a mid-way refresh of the 16" with 10th gen (if nothing more than for that sweet 5.3Ghz single core boost clock).

I am a bit surprised the 16" MBP has not gone to 10th Generation Intel CPUs since they are (finally) now available. Perhaps they are still trying to clear through their Gen9 motherboard stock since 10th Gen uses a new socket.


I don't understand why they would release another Intel iMac if they plan to completely switch over to Arm. Why draw out the transition longer?

Because the Intel Macs are on old CPU and GPU architectures. Intel has also stopped making the 8th generation CPUs the 21.5" model and lower-end 27" models use. So Apple has to do a CPU upgrade and AMD now has fairly better GPUs that can be added, as well.


So basically, spec update with 10th gen Intel CPU after WWDC, but no change to the form factor (no new design, no T2, no new cooling) until the ARM iMac is released late this year (or early next year).

There have been rumors that Apple will drop the Fusion Drive from the Intel iMac line and go-all SSD this year which would mean the next Intel iMacs would get T2 chips.


But does ARM require a different form factor? ARM chips supposedly won't need as much cooling, and there won't need to be a T2 chip either.

The 24" ARM iMac is rumored to look like a large iPad Pro (so slab sides, rounded corners with minimal bezels) and that form factor won't work for Intel+AMD unless it's multiple inches thick to handle the cooling system.

So sounds like the new 24" iMac will only be AMD and the 21.5" and 27" will soldier on in their current (old) form factors.


Pros can't Count On on the Arm-based computer to get their work done.

Might be why Apple is only moving two models to ARM then and leaving the rest Intel for now (with spec updates).


I've "heard" (don't know where from) that transition away from Intel will make already poor gaming selection even worse. Is that true?

ARM iMacs will likely only be able to play Apple Arcade games. They will certainly not be able to play Windows games (at least with any kind of performance via emulation).


Not sure the relevance of this - even if they don’t announce specific hardware, they will announce Arm. And these rumors are talking about machines being released Q4 or Q1 next year, so no reason to “announce” them now.

I expect Apple to unveil the 24" ARM iMac, but not announce a sale date to consumers. I also expect the first shipments will go to developers (so likely order using Develop IDs) to create and test applications. Then consumer sales in 2021.
 
My question is how long will Apple keep supporting and updating MacOS for Intel. If they can make sure it runs parallel (no pun intended) in 4 years that would be good. You don’t want your 2020 MacBook or worse Mac Pro not be updated next year. They have a history of doing that before but I hope it won’t be the case this time.
 
My question is how long will Apple keep supporting and updating MacOS for Intel.

They will do so until the last Intel machines reach the "Vintage and Obsolete Products" list, which is 5 to 7 years after the last model goes off sale. That being said, once Apple does stop selling new Intel-powered Macs, I do not expect to see another version of macOS, but just security updates and bug fixes of whatever the last supported version was (as was the case for PowerPC with macOS 10.5).
 
It makes perfect sense to me. Apple would not trot out an all new CPU based machine if it didnt feel confident it could blow away what it was replacing.
If it WAS a basic macbook, what would be the point? The AIR is expensive and useless as it is, why would anyone go with it if there were hints it was powered by an even more inferior CPU?
This shows Apple is confident about its CPU roadmap.
Let‘s also remember that the Fujitsu A64FX is an ARM based chip used in Cray supercomputers that blows away Intel Xeon chips on many fronts including obviously energy efficiency.
 
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They will do so until the last Intel machines reach the "Vintage and Obsolete Products" list, which is 5 to 7 years after the last model goes off sale. That being said, once Apple does stop selling new Intel-powered Macs, I do not expect to see another version of macOS, but just security updates and bug fixes of whatever the last supported version was (as was the case for PowerPC with macOS 10.5).

I hope that’s the case. That as long as the last Intel mac (probably the Mac Pro), they’ll do an Intel version of MacOS.
 
Yep, I'm very confident to be buying a MBP next week.
Would never buy a first-generation tech product.

My first generation Tesla Model S is awesome. First generation Athlon 64 was pretty rad. First generation iPhone was great. So was the first generation iPad. And AirPods.
 
Any news on the 14-inch MBP? I’m surprised they didn’t make the ARM MBP in a slimmer bezel.

I don't think this was ever a thing - just people thinking "Well, they increased the 15" to 16" so obviously they'll increase the 13" to 14" next...". Maybe when they get round to shifting to a new display technology...


Surely not? Not for the Mac Pro? Would they really be able to develop workstation class ARM chips in such a short period of time and be willing to EOL an entirely new system that was just released?

Would they really abandon the "classic" Mac Pro 5,1 in ~2011, then release a radically different concept in 2013 - with no internal PCIe or storage expansion and dependent on dual GPU support for performance - then not update it at all for 4-5 years before finally admitting it was a flop, then take another 2-3 years to produce a replacement (giving no clue as to what they were working on) which, while quite nice (if over-engineering turns you on) starts at twice the original MP price for a configuration that can't outrun an iMac....? (Oh, and - in the interim - releasing an iMac Pro which doesn't look as if it's ever going to get updated, either).

Why, yes, they would... So dropping the new MP after 18 months in favour of an ARM-based version (which, with all the optimism in the world, will have to wait a while before all the pro apps and their ecosystems of third-party plugins and peripherals are fixed for ARM) wouldn't be out of character.
 
Kuo’s actual wording seems to be “‌ARM‌ ‌iMac‌ will be equipped with the all-new form factor design and a 24- inch display. Apple will launch the refresh of existing Intel ‌iMac‌ in 3Q20 before launching the ‌ARM‌ ‌iMac‌.”

So I think the interpretation on other sites is off.

The Q3 refresh is also consistent with primary source reporting on Chinese language websites.
 
It makes perfect sense to me. Apple would not trot out an all new CPU based machine if it didnt feel confident it could blow away what it was replacing.
If it WAS a basic macbook, what would be the point? The AIR is expensive and useless as it is, why would anyone go with it if there were hints it was powered by an even more inferior CPU?
This shows Apple is confident about its CPU roadmap.
Let‘s also remember that the Fujitsu A64FX is an ARM based chip for supercomputers that blows away Intel Xeon chips on many fronts.

As if Intel is the benchmark. AMD destroys Intel and can keep up with ARM server CPU with less cores.
 
As for ARM Mac, I still believe Apple will phase out Mac lineup entirely once iPad Pro manages to catch up with professional use of some more occupations. I just don’t see the point of maintaining a Mac lineup that’s based on A-series chip when iPad Pro also has A-series chip (albeit less powerful) and equally powerful in practical use.

The Mac focuses on an entirely different interaction design. Architecture has nothing to do with it.
 
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It could still be 14" - Kuo said "similar to the 13.3" MBP form factor", not "exactly a 13.3" MBP form factor".

This might explain why the 13.3" received a spec bump recently and not replaced with a 14" model as has been rumored.

From an engineering perspective, using the existing 13.3" chassis is the lowest risk. Given the transition, Apple shouldn't be thinking of using 14" mini-LED with ARM. If you look at the first Intel MacBooks, they were carryover designs from the PowerBook G4.
 
All I know is I’m going to rely on second hand market to buy Intel Mac from now on. I don’t really “need” VM support but 32 bit is huge (locked behind High Sierra), and some Windows action would be nice too.

As for ARM Mac, I still believe Apple will phase out Mac lineup entirely once iPad Pro manages to catch up with professional use of some more occupations. I just don’t see the point of maintaining a Mac lineup that’s based on A-series chip when iPad Pro also has A-series chip (albeit less powerful) and equally powerful in practical use.

Wouldn't bother me a jot if they 'phased' out the Mac. Eventually.

A 24 inch iPad. Son of Mac. Apple Pencil.

The old Apple II had to give away to Mac. It's just the way of things. The Mac has still got some way to go yet, though.

The Mac is giving way to iPad, iPhone and Watch.

One day, all you will need is a giant screen and 'an' input method.

Whether it's Mac or iPad is semantics in the future sense.

Azrael.
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Pretty sure Microsoft has been compiling Windows 10 for ARM for awhile now.. Both Apple and Windows have an interest in ditching x86.. it's just a matter of time. So VMs running Windows 10 for ARM will be a thing soon after Apples ARM transition. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple personally asked/worked with Microsoft to help with ARM research and Windows 10 ARM.
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Lets face it people... x86 is hitting a thermal limit soon. Definitely in laptops but also look at AMD desktops; 3000 series CPU are so power hungry and the chipset for PCIe Gen 4 is so power hungry the motherboard needs cooling fans. This is exactly what PowerPC G5 looked like when Apple wanted to put it into a laptop. For Intel they are also super power hungry and get hot.. Laptops are hitting a limit for the most popular form factor PC... And people definitely dont want to carry a suitcase PC around in the future.

Intel and AMD are on borrowed time for x86 unless they come with something new or switch to ARM themselves.. But thats the thing- ARM is licensed and thus so customized.. What place do Intel and AMD have in the ARM space if Qualcomm is already huge in the ARM space.

Great post.

True.

Azrael.
 
Yo, I do not pay attention nor do any research (aka Googling)

I've "heard" (don't know where from) that transition away from Intel will make already poor gaming selection even worse. Is that true? Aware of the transition to newest Mac OS broke old 32 bit games. Is it on that scale? Or fake news? :p

A lot of Mac games now use Cider/Wine/etc. to essentially mimic portions of Windows. That’ll go away, as ARM Windows games basically aren’t a thing.

So yeah, could be a big blow to games.
 
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It makes perfect sense to me. Apple would not trot out an all new CPU based machine if it didnt feel confident it could blow away what it was replacing.
If it WAS a basic macbook, what would be the point? The AIR is expensive and useless as it is, why would anyone go with it if there were hints it was powered by an even more inferior CPU?
This shows Apple is confident about its CPU roadmap.
Let‘s also remember that the Fujitsu A64FX is an ARM based chip used in Cray supercomputers that blows away Intel Xeon chips on many fronts.

If Apple are confident then Intel are on notice.

It will be nothing short of a beat down if Apple are going Mac ARM.

Azrael.
 
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Well, it also means you can’t run VMWare Fusion, Parallels, or Docker Desktop. That raises the number a lot higher than 2%, I bet.
I’d be surprised if it is more than 10%. Remember, most people who buy MacBook Pros aren’t posting to enthusiast sites. Some people just want the faster model and can do everything they need with macOS software. If we use existing benchmarks, the iPad Pro can perform, at least in short bursts, about as quickly as the 13” MacBook Pro today, without a fan. I was initially thinking Apple would start with the lower end since Air users, etc. are more likely to rely solely on the built in software (or common macOS-compatible applications), but it seems they are setting their sights higher.
 
Wouldn't bother me a jot if they 'phased' out the Mac. Eventually.

A 24 inch iPad. Son of Mac. Apple Pencil.

The old Apple II had to give away to Mac. It's just the way of things. The Mac has still got some way to go yet, though.

The Mac is giving way to iPad, iPhone and Watch.

One day, all you will need is a giant screen and 'an' input method.

Whether it's Mac or iPad is semantics in the future sense.

Apple isn't in the business of giving consumers the opposite of what they want.

The iPad is a top heavy design with no room for active cooling and crappy trackpad support.
 
It could still be 14" - Kuo said "similar to the 13.3" MBP form factor", not "exactly a 13.3" MBP form factor".

This might explain why the 13.3" received a spec bump recently and not replaced with a 14" model as has been rumored.
This was my initial thought as well, it would be a lot of unnecessary effort to make the mid 2020 Intel with magic keyboard, then change it internally for the early 2021 Arm model, then drop it for the 14". Think all those pieces (mini LED, Arm, 14") which are floating about in the rumour mill are for one redesigned computer early next year.
 
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As if Intel is the benchmark. AMD destroys Intel and can keep up with ARM server CPU with less cores.
The point is ARM is being used in supercomputers and blowing away the completion in performance and energy efficiency. And this is at it’s infancy in this sector, imagine when it matures in the next few iterations?
 
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