Flash Player 10.2 is out, do you want the optimized Flash Player on iPad?

[shandyman]

No, Apple clearly tried to make "develop once and deploy everywhere" impossible and clearly wanted developers to focus all their time and effort on iOS, pushing as far as requiring us to buy a Mac if we want to put apps on IOS at a time when Apple was still controlling probably anywhere between 75 to 90% of mobile application market and 75% of music market. I made those points dozens of time and it is outdated anyway, we won, we can now with AIR 2.6 put our Flash apps everywhere including iPad and iPhone, but we only won because European Commission constrained Apple to reverse their change of terms of service for native apps, so now it is really down to the browser only and that one will be hard to win, I will not be surprised if iOS users never get Flash unless the public starts to vote with their wallets, which might very well happen based on the success of Flash Access, Flex 4.5 and Air 2.6. Those are going to be kick ass apps and I am sure lot of them will be sold as native apps on iOS and free in the browser on Android and all other Adobe Flash certified devices.

Lol more conspiracy theories and hokum I see. You'll never see joe public getting up in arms about no flash on the iPad as they don't even know or don't care. Some crappy poll on here probably doesn't even represent 1% of iOS users.

As for needing a mac to make iOS, can you blame them for making the software work on their own OS? I'd rather they put more people on making iTunes better than waste time making Xcode for other OS's. Plus if developers want to, they'd just virtual machine mac osx on whatever OS they're using, which most devs I know virtual machine to other OS's to test their software anyway.

Really your points are moot.

 

[flexengineer]

No, the were controlling 75 to 90% of the paid native mobile application market. A market that they basically created. Nothing wrong with that.

That's right, and they make impossible to use the web for real applications that can compete with native apps therefore they control the whole market and use that monopoly to refrain Flash from competing. It is an abuse of monopoly and that is why they failed, stepped down and European Commission publicly took credit for it, clearly saying Apple avoided a formal full blown investigation on that very specific issue (blocking Flash to iOS apps). There is no doubt they were up to no good, they just failed and then dared to release a statement saying "we heard the developer" almost the same day EU commissioner praised Apple for complying. You can turn it anyway you want to make it look good for Apple, you're losing your time, Steve Jobs and its ideology are now out of the big picture for good.

Of course you did. Why else would you bring up the illness at all?

The judge did, not me. The judge considered that the lawyers claims that Steve Jobs was not capable of testifying were not true, Apple's lawyers brought it up and used it, not me, and a judge did not believe it and is bringing him in, not me.

 

[Stealthipad]

Still lots of "flash badgers" who think that Apple can destroy flash!

Flash is not going to go away.

 

[Hastings101]

If there was Flash on the iPad I would buy it. Well that, and as long as the iPad is light enough to hold in one hand for a few minutes

 

[flexengineer]

Ok dudes and gals I am done saying what I had to say, we Flash community won, my Flash apps will get everywhere no matter what, the rest is Apple's consumers browser and battle not mine. I'm out, wish you the best and can't wait to hear Steve testify. Peace and Love!

 

[shandyman]

That's right, and they make impossible to use the web for real applications that can compete with native apps therefore they control the whole market and use that monopoly to refrain Flash from competing. It is an abuse of monopoly and that is why they failed, stepped down and European Commission publicly took credit for it, clearly saying Apple avoided a formal full blown investigation on that very specific issue (blocking Flash to iOS apps). There is no doubt they were up to no good, they just failed and then dared to release a statement saying "we heard the developer" almost the same day EU commissioner praised Apple for complying. You can turn it anyway you want to make it look good for Apple, you're losing your time, Steve Jobs and its ideology are now out of the big picture for good.

Or maybe they blocked flash to iOS apps, shockingly, for the very reason they said, caused sloppy, buggy, unreliable apps. But we all know you'll deny this cos you like your conspiracy theories with your tin foil hat....

Still lots of "flash badgers" who think that Apple can destroy flash!

Flash is not going to go away.

Oh but it will. Just a matter of time.... Not cos of apple, just cos its reaching the end of it's life

 

[shandyman]

Ok dudes and gals I am done saying what I had to say, we Flash community won, my Flash apps will get everywhere no matter what, the rest is Apple's consumers browser and battle not mine. I'm out, wish you the best and can't wait to hear Steve testify. Peace and Love!

Flash isn't on iOS so how did the flash community win?! Lol. You'll be out of a job in a few years and have to retrain... Boohoo.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Ok dudes and gals I am done saying what I had to say, we Flash community won, my Flash apps will get everywhere no matter what

You still haven't answered my question. You claimed iOS users will be overpaying for apps and games without Flash. Which wonderful Flash apps and games Android users are enjoying immensely rather than native ones? I'd like to see some evidence behind your claim please.

 

[flexengineer]

Oh but it will. Just a matter of time.... Not cos of apple, just cos its reaching the end of it's life

LMAO

Leading CEOs discuss Open Screen Project -- CEOs from ARM, Broadcom, DoCoMo, Google, HTC, Intel, Motorola, NVIDIA, Palm, QUALCOMM, RIM, and STMIcroelectronics talk about how theyre bringing Flash Platform technologies to their devices and platforms. Learn more about Open Screen Project at www.openscreenproject.org

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CwI227m-hs

You still haven't answered my question. You claimed iOS users will be overpaying for apps and games without Flash. Which wonderful Flash apps and games Android users are enjoying immensely rather than native ones? I'd like to see some evidence behind your claim please.

I did many times, all the new media and entertainment offering from Amazon are Flash based and Amazon is not bothering with native apps yet because they want to take on Netflix and Apple by being cheaper, they do not want to pay 30% to Apple like anyone. Many will follow, just google "flex developer jobs" and see for yourself, it's all about Flash Platform right now and there is nothing we can do or say that will change that, Adobe is very powerful company and now they have the upper hands while Steve Jobs is tied up due to scrubnity. As I said, Spring 2011 is the beginning of the Flash showdown. Will laugh hard who will laugh last

 

[fertilized-egg]

I did many times, all the new media and entertainment offering from Amazon are Flash based and Amazon is not bothering with native apps yet...

I asked which apps and games Android users are enjoying rather than native apps and the best you can do is bringing the upcoming Amazon stuff which is the method of content delivery picked out by an Apple competitor?? Nice way to avoid answering the real question.

Again, you said iOS users will have to pay for more apps and games without Flash. Tell me which games and apps Android users are enjoying so much rather than native apps? Oh right, in the future Android users will all be enjoying Flex games and apps, right? Let me go to Android forums and ask if they'd rather use Flash apps over native ones.

 

[flexengineer]

I asked which apps and games Android users are enjoying rather than native apps and the best you can do is bringing the upcoming Amazon stuff which is the method of content delivery picked out by an Apple competitor?? Nice way to avoid answering the real question.

You're right, I am wrong, it's my job, I am among the best Flash experts in the country and I am arguing with you. I do not think so, I said what I had to say, you are asking for applications based on a technology that is 9 months old, you will see this year what I am talking about, I will come back here to post about them every time one comes out, like I just did with Amazon. Until then I am done, I said it all.

 

[fertilized-egg]

You're right, I am wrong, it's my job, I am among the best Flash experts in the country and I am arguing with you.

Please. Don't appeal to authority. If you can back it up, give me evidence

You've presented your argument, which is:

"Lack of Flash, perpetuated by Apple's corporate agenda, makes users pay more for apps and games."

And here's my rebuttal:
"If Flash makes things so great, surely we've seen some movements in the Android that tells us people would use Flash and it'll lead to cheaper and better apps and games. Where's evidence of that?"

It's simple really. You give me evidence that in Android, where Flash has been around for sometime, people are benefiting by getting cheaper apps and games in Flash. Then your argument is valid. Instead you're making all kinds of grand claims and telling how how great Flash-dominated world it'll be.

The funny thing is, if you go to Android forums, you almost never hear this argument. People couldn't care less about Flash apps and games. All they want it for is to have animations and videos. They have Flash running. If Flash is so great why aren't they using it with glee?

 

[shandyman]

Amazon is not bothering with native apps yet because they want to take on Netflix and Apple by being cheaper, they do not want to pay 30% to Apple like anyone. Many will follow, just google "flex developer jobs" and see for yourself, it's all about Flash Platform right now and there is nothing we can do or say that will change that, Adobe is very powerful company and now they have the upper hands while Steve Jobs is tied up due to scrubnity. As I said, Spring 2011 is the beginning of the Flash showdown. Will laugh hard who will laugh last

lol this is hilarious. have you considered the fact that they might not have native apps ready? or that they want to ease into it and not overload their servers right off the bat? they limit access to see how servers handle it and gradually increase access, via other methods as and when they are ready. you wait, by the end of this year, there will be native apps for Amazon's new little toy as they won't want to cut their nose off to spite their face. your statement is just so absurd. Adobe will never win until Apple allow Flash on iOS, which is a losing battle.

Please. Don't appeal to authority. If you can back it up, give me evidence

You've presented your argument, which is:

"Lack of Flash, perpetuated by Apple's corporate agenda, makes users pay more for apps and games."

And here's my rebuttal:
"If Flash makes things so great, surely we've seen some movements in the Android that tells us people would use Flash and it'll lead to cheaper and better apps and games. Where's evidence of that?"

It's simple really. You give me evidence that in Android, where Flash has been around for sometime, people are benefiting by getting cheaper apps and games in Flash. Then your argument is valid. Instead you're making all kinds of grand claims and telling how how great Flash-dominated world it'll be.

The funny thing is, if you go to Android forums, you almost never hear this argument. People couldn't care less about Flash apps and games. All they want it for is to have animations and videos. They have Flash running. If Flash is so great why aren't they using it with glee?

its so funny that you've challanged him many times to prove his point, but every time he sidetracks and throws other irrelevant facts in response cos he's wrong and can't admit it.

the funny thing is he's putting so much effort trying to sway us and i don't really give a toss what he says, it's been quite entertaining whilst i've been stuck in hospital bored...

 

[fertilized-egg]

it's been quite entertaining whilst i've been stuck in hospital bored...

Ah come on, there's gotta be a better way to spend your recovery time than reading nerds argue over stupid things like this (disclaimer: I'm not a nerd, nerds are smart)

 

[shandyman]

Ah come on, there's gotta be a better way to spend your recovery time than reading nerds argue over stupid things like this (disclaimer: I'm not a nerd, nerds are smart)

Well I'm not spending all the time reading this thread lol. I bounce between reading comics and books, streaming BBC iPlayer, you tube, watching the west wing, chatting to mates via IM on beejive and via skype, messing on facebook, playing games like infinity blade (which could not be made in flash), streaming last.fm and soundcloud and other stuff. All of which done without flash draining my nice 10+ hour battery life on my iPad 2.... well ok playing infinity blade will drain more but it's worth it.

 

[BaldiMac]

That's right, and they make impossible to use the web for real applications that can compete with native apps therefore they control the whole market and use that monopoly to refrain Flash from competing. It is an abuse of monopoly and that is why they failed, stepped down and European Commission publicly took credit for it, clearly saying Apple avoided a formal full blown investigation on that very specific issue (blocking Flash to iOS apps). There is no doubt they were up to no good, they just failed and then dared to release a statement saying "we heard the developer" almost the same day EU commissioner praised Apple for complying. You can turn it anyway you want to make it look good for Apple, you're losing your time, Steve Jobs and its ideology are now out of the big picture for good.

The way you jump back and forth between apps the run in the Flash Player plugin on the web and Flash apps that are compiled into native iOS apps is dizzying. Of course, your argument doesn't make any sense if you stick to one situation.

The judge did, not me. The judge considered that the lawyers claims that Steve Jobs was not capable of testifying were not true, Apple's lawyers brought it up and used it, not me, and a judge did not believe it and is bringing him in, not me.

No, you did. Stop backtracking. The judge brought it up as part of his decision as to whether or not Jobs should be required to be deposed. Which is completely reasonable. You brought it up in this thread as an attack on his character. Do I really need to quote you again?

 

[flexengineer]

Please. Don't appeal to authority. If you can back it up, give me evidence

You've presented your argument, which is:

"Lack of Flash, perpetuated by Apple's corporate agenda, makes users pay more for apps and games."

Do you think sometime or are you just a trouble maker trying to dissolve my points so the important matters gets overloaded with your posts? Or maybe you dont know how to read very well... Let me try to repeat for the 10x time.

Sit down, empty your mind and think really really hard: If I build my applications with Flash (3 millions of us do) and I can put that application everywhere and I can make money with it on the web without to pay a dime, what do you think will happen when I want to put that app on iPhone and have to do it as native app with 30% tax from Apple instead of freely in the browser? I will pass that cost to you and you will pay Apple's 30% tax, not me, not Android users, not anyone with a Flash enabled browser, you will pay more on iOS for the exact same Flash application. Once again, nothing you can do about it, just sit and watch.

 

[fertilized-egg]

playing games like infinity blade (which could not be made in flash)

That's something I didn't understand from his argument. You had asked flexengineer if Flash could do something like Infinity Blade yet instead of answering your question, he proudly showed off as an example of Flex' power with...a casual game.

We can mostly agree if there's the last area iOS lacks, it's dirt cheap casual games yet he's telling us iOS needs Flash so that we can get more...casual games.

Sit down, empty your mind and think really really hard: If I build my applications with Flash (3 millions of us do) and I can put that application everywhere and I can make money with it on the web without to pay a dime

Excellent point. Which mobile platform has the best track record of monetization? At the end developers will go where they can make the most money, and so far they have been making a ton of money without using Flash on iOS.

Also that's precisely what Apple wants to avoid isn't it? If developers make half-hearted application not optimized for the standard iOS interface or features, doesn't that hurt the consumer experience?

 

[flexengineer]

That's something I didn't understand from his argument. You had asked flexengineer if Flash could do something like Infinity Blade yet instead of answering your question, he proudly showed off as an example of Flex' power with...a casual game. We can mostly agree if there's the last area iOS lacks, it's dirt cheap casual games yet he's telling us iOS needs Flash so that we can get more...casual games. Excellent point. Which mobile platform has the best track record of monetization? At the end developers will go where they can make the most money, and so far they have been making a ton of money without using Flash on iOS. Also that's precisely what Apple wants to avoid isn't it? If developers make half-hearted application not optimized for the standard iOS interface or features, doesn't that hurt the consumer experience?

You can say what you want, APPLE USERS WILL PAY MORE FOR THE SAME EXACT FLASH APPLICATIONS ON IOS AS NATIVE APPS BECAUSE WE WILL PASS APPLE 30% TAX TO END USER, NO ONE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR APPLE 30% IN THE BROWSER. Developers already made their choice, there are 3 million flash developers, how many iOS developers? 100k? lol

Apple tied us up for a year, now it is showtime, keep talking!

 

[Carouser]

If I build my applications with Flash (3 millions of us do) and I can put that application everywhere and I can make money with it on the web without to pay a dime, what do you think will happen when I want to put that app on iPhone and have to do it as native app with 30% tax from Apple instead of freely in the browser? I will pass that cost to you and you will pay Apple's 30% tax, not me, not Android users, not anyone with a Flash enabled browser, you will pay more on iOS for the exact same Flash application. Once again, nothing you can do about it, just sit and watch.

Or maybe people will ignore flexengineer's Flash game and continue to buy games on the App Store and not care at all, like what is happening right this moment.

It's not like there's a demand for a set of Flash games which then drive hardware purchases. That's backwards. People want iPads and will buy/use the games which work on iPads, plain and simple. "What's that? I can't play SwordSwinger on the iPad? Okay, I'll play something else on my iPad and ignore the Flash content that exists on the web in some browsers, content which I don't know about to begin with."

Also, that '30% tax' misunderstands it and markets, to say the least, and it's not like the market will just manifest a 30% surcharge on apps tout court. Edit, just to clarify: Unless someone wants to correct me, the 30% is for in-app purchases, not for apps. Come on. Also, the market isn't static - if there were a 30% surfeit on Apps then the major players who can take a cut in profit would do so and compete on price; major Apps for which people are willing to pay the extra charge will cruise along just fine; and some small-revenue developers might get shoo-ed out, or they can offer some of their Apps for free and monetize things in an alternative way.

 

[BaldiMac]

If I build my applications with Flash (3 millions of us do)

Sigh. You really should stay away from statistics. There are not 3 million Flash application developers. There are 3 million developers who use the Flash platform. The vast majority utilize it for content delivery, not application development.

and I can put that application everywhere and I can make money with it on the web without to pay a dime, what do you think will happen when I want to put that app on iPhone and have to do it as native app with 30% tax from Apple instead of freely in the browser? I will pass that cost to you and you will pay Apple's 30% tax, not me, not Android users, not anyone with a Flash enabled browser, you will pay more on iOS for the exact same Flash application. Once again, nothing you can do about it, just sit and watch.

And how will you get people to your app? Is advertising free in your world? How much will it cost you to maintain and deploy. How will you process the transactions? The idea that it is "free" vs "30%" is laughable.

 

[fertilized-egg]

APPLE USERS WILL PAY MORE FOR THE SAME EXACT FLASH APPLICATIONS ON IOS AS NATIVE APPS BECAUSE WE WILL PASS APPLE 30% TAX TO END USER, NO ONE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR APPLE 30% IN THE BROWSER. lol

Holy shouting Batman!

You might also be interested in taking your evangelical beliefs to the Android forums too and yell this:

GOOGLE USERS WILL PAY MORE FOR THE SAME EXACT FLASH APPLICATIONS ON ANDROID AS NATIVE APPS BECAUSE WE WILL PASS GOOGLE 30% TAX TO END USER, NO ONE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR GOOGLE 30% IN THE BROWER. lol

Oh and do this too:

AMAZON USERS WILL PAY MORE FOR THE SAME EXACT FLASH APPLICATIONS ON ANDROID AS NATIVE APPS BECAUSE WE WILL PASS AMAZON 30% TAX TO END USER, NO ONE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR AMAZON 30% IN THE BROWER. lol

I'll be very anxious to see what kind of reception you get

Is advertising free in your world? How much will it cost you to maintain and deploy. How will you process the transactions? The idea that it is "free" vs "30%" is laughable.

flexengineer's argument sounds like this to me:

Sell your vegetables from your backyard and make $100 - great!

Sell your vegetables to a supermarket, make $7,000 while the supermarket makes $3,000 profit selling them - evil! I'd rather make $100 only without paying the supermarket tax.

 

[flexengineer]

Edit, just to clarify: Unless someone wants to correct me, the 30% is for in-app purchases, not for apps.

30% on APPSTORE and ITUNES SALES
30% on IN-APP SALES
?% ON ALL AD REVENUE (I do not know the percentage, what I know is that I would not pay it on the web, I do not need Apple to find advertising, I have much cheaper solutions)

Fallout continues from Apple’s 30% In-App purchase tax
http://unplugged.rcrwireless.com/in...continues-from-apples-30-in-app-purchase-tax/

Last week Apple announced it would be beefing up its In-App Purchases system (the catchily named IAP API), introducing new rules that mandate all apps that sell additional content, services or subscriptions MUST use Apple’s system, and pay it a 30% cut for the privilege. The controversial move was aimed at simplification, and, Steve Jobs claimed, to reward Apple for bringing in a new subscriber through iOS – obviously the 30% purchase price cut and $99 per year iOS Developer Program membership just aren’t raking in enough cash.

On the very day of the announcement Rhapsody came forward to say they wouldn’t be adhering to the new rules, quite simply because their slender profit margins cannot absorb a 30% fee -

“The bottom line is we would not be able to offer our service through the iTunes store if subjected to Apple’s 30% monthly fee vs. a typical 2.5 per cent credit card fee.”

It was thought music services would feel the sting more profoundly than others due to the already-hefty charges they must pay to the music owners in order to be allowed to stream it. This has now seemingly been confirmed with Last.fm co-founder Richard Jones saying Apple has “****ed over” music subscription services (read the chatlogs here), in preparation for the launch of their own competing service which, of course, will not be subject to the 30% levy.

However it isn’t just music services being affected – Readability, an article bookmarking and reading service has announced that it will be abandoning the App Store subsequent to Apple rejecting their app on the grounds of it not correctly paying the ferryman. Readability say they will now be focusing on the web, as their business model – where 70% of their revenues go to the content’s creators – can also not survive a 30% bite being taken from it.

It’s also become apparent that Apple’s In-App Purchasing system will only support around 3,000 items in a store – this could prove mightily troublesome for vendors such as Amazon, whose Kindle book store boasts several million items.

Meanwhile regulators in the USA and Europe are allegedly looking into Apple’s new rules with many a beady eye, prompting many to speculate they could be ruled anticompetitive.

Apple has long been known for its bold and controversial ideas about how services can operate within the iTunes ecosystem, could this latest set of regulations be one step too far?

UPDATE: Screenshot sharing tool TinyGrab have now said they too will no longer appear on the iOS or Mac App Stores.

EU Publishers Blast Apple's IPad Subscription Plan
http://www.pcworld.com/article/219272/eu_publishers_blast_apples_ipad_subscription_plan.html

Publishers greet Apple's iPad plan with icy silence
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/16/technology/apple_ipad_subscriptions/index.htm

Avoiding Apple Tax: How iOS Developers Can Bypass The 30% Fee
http://www.901am.com/2011/avoiding-apple-tax-how-ios-developers-can-bypass-the-30-fee.html

Rhapsody blasts Apple's 30% cut from in-app subs
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209861/Rhapsody_blasts_Apple_s_30_cut_from_in_app_subs

Want more? I could keep posting for days, as I said keep talking, it's unfolding no matter what. I can tell you Flash Platform will be #1 application development environment by the end of the year, I bet you whatever you want. Actually, let me reformulate: Flash Platform has been the #1 rich internet application (RIA) environment for a decade and will be this year #1 application development environment for mobile and connected TV as well.

And Apple's users will pay more for the same exact Flash apps until Apple allows Flash in the browsers on iOS.

 

[fertilized-egg]

. I can tell you Flash Platform will be #1 application development environment by the end of the year, I bet you whatever you want. And Apple's users will pay more for the same exact apps until Apple allow Flash in the browsers on iOS.

Really? you think Android users will be using more in-browser apps than native apps by the end of this year?

 

[Carouser]

[deluge of links on a factual point]

Ok, now address the part of my post where I argued this won't have the consequences you think it will.