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Considering this is MACrumors.com, I'm really frustrated that people even care about other platforms on here. Seriously. Keep it relevant to the name of the site.

Ever since I came on the net [sorry] discovered the net, there have been rule and topic relevance fascists like you trying to ruin my day. It's not just that your dictatorial manner is offensive, or that your obsessive belief in others' adherence to rules you consider appropriate, is simply dumb.

No, what really offends me is your lack of historical context and total lack of any ability to apply lateral thinking.

Let's by-pass the history because I feel it might be too much for you to handle in one day. Instead, try thinking beyond your little box and work out that Apple products exist in a world full of diversity, in which their users utilise other products and services that are common to other platforms.

Then, dear narrow minded fool, please consider that what happens in the wider world of other platforms does actually affect Apple and what happens on Apple products,and therefore to Apple product users.

It's just a small thing, not a big ask.
 
If Flash does not go away (as it may or may not), and processing speed continues to improve, and particularly if Android continues to expand its market share lead over iOS and market surveys show Flash is a key factor, then Apple will put Flash support into iOS in a heartbeat.

Remember Steve Jobs' critical explanation of why Macs would not have HDMI. How it was a limited technology that would be superceded by Displayport. Now take a look at the back of your new Mac Mini and see its HDMI port. He will never acknowledge his very public mistakes, but he will protect his wallet and correct them.

Same with multi-tasking, folders, and any number of other features which Apple felt were not needed in iOS at some point. Apps, too. Remember when the iPhone was first released and Apple explained that they would supply all the software and that independent software would be too risky.

The rest is history. When the market speaks loudly, even Mr. Jobs listens. Maybe, like in the case of Apps, he sees he's leaving money on the table. Or, as in the cases of multi-tasking and folders, he has to play catch-up to a competitor to keep his product competitive. But he will change if the money is there.

Will it be there? Who knows? But choice pushed Android devices to nearly 900% growth, and past iOS devices in really only 1 year (it took them another prior year to get its act together). And Flash, even a less than smooth initial release of Flash, is another big aspect of choice. Will Steve be content to become a (profitable) niche player in mobile devices, as Macs are in computers?

Doubt it. Give me examples of when Steve Jobs changed his mind on something he really believed in (other then the HDMI - His comments on HDMI can't compare to all he has said on Flash). The same could be said of Blu-Ray.
 
Doubt it. Give me examples of when Steve Jobs changed his mind on something he really believed in (other then the HDMI - His comments on HDMI can't compare to all he has said on Flash). The same could be said of Blu-Ray.

You've posted an unanswerable question.

There are so many lies and flip-flops in Jobs' and Apple's history, that it's impossible to know which statements were really believed in and which were falsehoods meant to sell stuff.

For example, "nobody wants to watch video on an Ipod" was most likely the latter.
 
Why in the world would they release this half-ass? This is the best they can do? I'm not a huge fan of flash, but this is just stupid enough to be worth following up on. What a bone-headed play :confused:

Because somebody named Shantanu Narayen, is asleep at the wheel? To make a mistake once could be a mistake, but to repeat in a short time? Fail. Recall the Photoshop app?

Somebody should be yanked!
 
The fact is that Flash requires a lot of resources and that directly affects battery life. Throwing a bunch of processing power at the problem is not going to fix the main reason flash on a mobile device is not desirable.
Why not? It works for Windows. :)
 
Flash on my HTC Desire is somewhat underwhelming.

Having upgraded from an iPhone 3G (now dog slow thanks to the joys of iOS4) it was a mildly pleasant surprise to see a video start to preload on the BBC News website, something that had been unavailable (but not bothered me either) previously. While it played, the output was jerky, the picture blocky and all in all not a particularly overwhelming experience. Some files on Vimeo I've tried won't play at all; just display a black box while the prorgess bar moves on. (And yes I'm aware that there is an HTML5 option on Vimeo ;)).

While it's nice to say Flash is available on Android, it's true to say it really doesn't bring much to the party.
 
Yeah Steeve Jobs told them and all they said was " Silly Jobs. Are u ok? Go back to ur room now. " Looks like he was right. I hope the phones that have this feature have the ability to turn flash off, I would hate having slowed internet speed all the time due to flash.( not worth it) Luckly I have an iPhone. And who here ever thought for a second that flash games would work on a touch platform when they were made for a keyboard and mouse?
 
Steve Jobs

Stevie Jobs is a genius, flash does suck. Its completely outdated, and horribly slow compared to HTML5.
 
I think Adobe should take a "time out" with flash development and look into revamping it. I don't mean some band aid that makes it work a little better until the next OS upgrade on a particular device. I mean they should take a look at what needs to be done to create a new version of flash or a complete replacement for flash.

I'm in total agreement with Steve Jobs on this issue. Flash seems clunky and a power drain on laptops now, let alone on portable devices. Blindly defending Adobe on this to spite Apple users is childish.

I agree that Flash is "dead" or dying, and I am referring to flash as it is. If Adobe doesn't seriously rebuild it from scratch then I think it will be an important part of internet history right next to netscape on the museum shelf. On the other hand, I do not subscribe to this philosophy that Adobe "missed the window" to save Flash. I think that is up to Adobe. Adobe is a well known company with many internet applications. If they develop a new software package for the web and it works, people will give it a try. For the web user, downloading a completely new version of Flash would be no less painful than downloading any other plugin.

I think if Adobe demonstrated a really good product to replace the dying version of flash, Apple would allow it on portable devices. And if Apple didn't allow it after witnessing good performance on similar devices in the market, then they could be justly criticized. But Adobe needs to do the work first. The ball is in their court.

No matter what happens with flash, I stand by my earlier comment that any website that doesn't offer a simple, non-flash, option is poorly designed. That is true regardless of flash's performance. Now I was called a fanboy last time I suggested that. Please do it again. Its exciting. And type it s-l-o-w-l-y when you do.
 
Flash is crap enough on my MacBook Air, 2.13ghz.

I can only imagine how slow it is on a phone.

Click2Flash on Safari works great and I rarely have to enable the flash, older youtube videos mainly.
Same here. It's horrible on a computer, so why want it on something smaller and slower? Click2Flash is one of my favorite applications on my iMac. I'm just glad i don't have to search for something on my iPhone to block Flash. I really wish it would just die and go away all together. Flash sucks. Period.
 
What people who suggest Adobe should fix flash should understand is that Adobe does not know how to fix flash. Flash was a great product when it was Macromedia's product. Adobe was making GoLive at the time which was a very poor attempt to compete with Flash and was failing miserably. Adobe then took over Macromedia and instead of leaving flash in the hands of those that knew it best decided the creation tool needed to look and feel like the rest of their applications and basically killed it. Since they didn't develop it to start with they don't know how to make it work right. Flash will never be made to work the way it should be on current systems and mobile systems. It was a great tool and had some great features but now it is just a dying product that keeps getting bandaids over major issues in an attempt to keep it alive. If it was a horse someone would have shot it by now. Apple's stance on it is the right stance and if you look at how many companies are moving their stuff to html5 it is working. If Apple allowed flash then most of the companies would not even have started this transition, as most of them wouldn't spend resources to make something work better for people if it wasn't their fault. IE. Choppy crappy performance would be blamed on the phone manufacturer and not their problem.
 
Not sure what your point is.

I agree that Silverlight runs great under both Windows and OS X. And that Flash runs great on Windows and poorly on most Macs running OS X. So you seem to be supporting my point that the problem is how Apple has integrated Flash support into its hardware and software. But you start with "Not true". Which is it? Do Macs run Flash as well as the other 90% of the world's computers, or don't they?

Or is your point to compliment Microsoft for making very good video streaming software, since Silverlight is a Microsoft development? If so, I compliment your courage for doing that on this site.

By the way, I am not suggesting that Apple's poor support for Flash is a conspiracy. Apple is arrogant and inflexible, Adobe has moved on for now, and we, Apple's customers, suffer (at least some of us). Plain and simple.

I've done some checking, and the problem seems to be with OS X, as there are many postings of people recommending that Mac owners who want to run Flash dual boot into Windows. Guidance is that Flash runs just fine under Windows using Mac hardware. So maybe it was your intention to compliment Microsoft software.

So you are honestly trying to say that Apple purposely is hindering flash but went out of their way to help Microsoft develop silverlight to work correctly on a mac??? Are you dense??? Adobe screwed the pooch on flash for mac. This is not Apple's fault but Adobe's. If Microsoft can develop a similar program for the mac that works properly it pretty much proves that Adobe is the one dropping the ball. If it was Apple blocking stuff then Microsoft would have ran into the same problem yet they didn't. And sorry but if you are suggesting Apple should modify OSX to make flash work better then you are also not too bright. It is software developers responsibility to make products that work right on the platforms they decide on not the operating systems responsibility. You want to develop a program for windows or OSX you don't go to Microsoft and Apple and say "hey we need you to rewrite your OS so we can make a product work". They will tell you where to shove it and rightly so.

Complimenting Microsoft for making their product run right on a Mac isn't something risky to do. I think it speaks a lot for their developers that they took the time to make something work the way it should on a competitors platform instead of being like Adobe who can't get it right and instead start complaining that the platform is flawed. If a company can't make something work on a platform, that another company has been able to, then that is that companies problem and they need to look inside and see why they can't get it right. Maybe they have to look for people that can and spend the money to make it work if they want it too. Apple gave Adobe a lot of time to make it work before saying screw it we don't want your crap here.
 
What people who suggest Adobe should fix flash should understand is that Adobe does not know how to fix flash. Flash was a great product when it was Macromedia's product. Adobe was making GoLive at the time which was a very poor attempt to compete with Flash and was failing miserably. Adobe then took over Macromedia and instead of leaving flash in the hands of those that knew it best decided the creation tool needed to look and feel like the rest of their applications and basically killed it. Since they didn't develop it to start with they don't know how to make it work right. Flash will never be made to work the way it should be on current systems and mobile systems. It was a great tool and had some great features but now it is just a dying product that keeps getting bandaids over major issues in an attempt to keep it alive. If it was a horse someone would have shot it by now. Apple's stance on it is the right stance and if you look at how many companies are moving their stuff to html5 it is working. If Apple allowed flash then most of the companies would not even have started this transition, as most of them wouldn't spend resources to make something work better for people if it wasn't their fault. IE. Choppy crappy performance would be blamed on the phone manufacturer and not their problem.

Never the less, it is up to Adobe now to decide whether to drop Flash or try to recreate it better. How that would be accomplished is besides the point. If they manage to do it, then I'm sure Flash would be accepted. If they don't then Flash will die. Adobe has to decide.
 
Never the less, it is up to Adobe now to decide whether to drop Flash or try to recreate it better. How that would be accomplished is besides the point. If they manage to do it, then I'm sure Flash would be accepted. If they don't then Flash will die. Adobe has to decide.

Don't worry, it won't be Adobe's problem anymore once Apple buys that company with some cheap change...don't ever underestimate SJ's grudges. :rolleyes:
 
I really couldn't care less about flash games, I just want videos to work so I don't have to get up and use the computer when im checking out websites on the iphone
 
Flash does not "suck, period". It is just an outdated piece of software that is slowly disappearing. In comparison to HTML5, it does not hold up.

?...you're contradicting yourself

What people who suggest Adobe should fix flash should understand is that Adobe does not know how to fix flash. Flash was a great product when it was Macromedia's product. Adobe was making GoLive at the time which was a very poor attempt to compete with Flash and was failing miserably. Adobe then took over Macromedia and instead of leaving flash in the hands of those that knew it best decided the creation tool needed to look and feel like the rest of their applications and basically killed it. Since they didn't develop it to start with they don't know how to make it work right. Flash will never be made to work the way it should be on current systems and mobile systems. It was a great tool and had some great features but now it is just a dying product that keeps getting bandaids over major issues in an attempt to keep it alive. If it was a horse someone would have shot it by now. Apple's stance on it is the right stance and if you look at how many companies are moving their stuff to html5 it is working. If Apple allowed flash then most of the companies would not even have started this transition, as most of them wouldn't spend resources to make something work better for people if it wasn't their fault. IE. Choppy crappy performance would be blamed on the phone manufacturer and not their problem.


eh...I'm pretty sure GoLive a simpler version of dreamweaver, at least when I first opened it up, that what it looked like.
--------
Anyways, I'm a little surprised by some of the comments here, this is a first gen product we're talking about here, is it really fair to judge Adobe this harshly? Especially after all the advice I've seen on here in the past on avoiding first gen apple products as well?

I'm a big believer in using the right tool for the job, and while I can agree, flash is becoming less useful in terms of general web design, theres still quite a few things you can do with flash that just cannot be done with javascript at the moment. Until javascript catches up, I don't think flash is going anywhere.
 
Adobe should include an offer for a free extra battery for your phone for every Flash mobile download. Woohoo!
 
Not impressed with Adobe at the moment at all.

A 3 month old 27" imac can't open 30 page magazine in Indesign without slowing to a crawl.

HD video in final cut? works smooth as silk.
 
?...you're contradicting yourself

Not really. Sucks period implies that Flash always sucked. While Flash has never been horribly efficient/not a CPU hog (especially on the mac) it did provide some worthwhile tradeoffs. With the shift to mobile computing those tradeoffs don't make sense anymore especially with the emerging standard of HTML5. It's like saying a horse and buggy sucks period. It sucks now for most things but it is still useful in it's own way and time.
 
Why? Discussing the failure of flash on another device directly correlates to the spirit of this site. People have continually bashed the iPhone for not handling flash. Now we find out another device on another widely used and appreciated platform is also a failure. Please, it doesn't get any more relevant.

+1:cool:
 
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