Flash Player Performance on Droid 2 Found to Be Hit-or-Miss at Best

[bkspero]

Nice try

Doubt it. Give me examples of when Steve Jobs changed his mind on something he really believed in (other then the HDMI - His comments on HDMI can't compare to all he has said on Flash). The same could be said of Blu-Ray.

You set up a circular argument. By your definition all those many, many things that Steve Jobs changed his mind about were not things "in which he believed". HDMI, 2rd party mobile apps, mobile multitasking, mobile folders, giving away free bumpers to compensate for a design flaw that "is a non-issue", etc. So your challenge would seem impossible.

But I still accept it. Consider the one button mouse. For years, and years, and years, and years it was a Jobs cause celebre'. He refused to admit that the world had passed Apple by in that regard. As far as Apple was concerned, customers did not want or need a two button mouse. And Mac users suffered for it (or the less doctrinaire purchased a Microsoft Mouse). First adopters used MS drivers until Apple was embarassed into copying MS and supporting 2nd button functions in OS X. Finally, he changed his mind completely and swung totally in the opposite direction. Giving Apple mice not only a second button, and a clicking directional device, but additional buttons, swipes, and who knows what else.

He can and will change. He'll never acknowledge the change. Or admit the past error. But the cha-ching of his personal cash register trumps even his towering ego.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Flash does not "suck, period". It is just an outdated piece of software that is slowly disappearing. In comparison to HTML5, it does not hold up.

No.. it doesn't suck, it's just really slow, performs horribly, is used for nothing but ads, and drains battery life. But it doesn't suck.

 

[Journojulz]

He can and will change. He'll never acknowledge the change. Or admit the past error.

Like all good busunessmen - he waits until a solution is up to his standard before running with it.

touchwheel mp3 players
touchscreen phone
Copy and paste on the ios
soapbar mouse
magic mouse
trackpad
tablet computers

Not the first in their fields - but significantly better.

Releasing something before its ready is not good.
defunct slate computers won't fly off the shelves until the os is integrated well enough.

But I do take your point about lying.
Its a business decision - if you tell people you are working on something brilliant for next year - who is going to buy this years products and pay for that development?

 

[bkspero]

Please try and be less sensitive.

So you are honestly trying to say that Apple purposely is hindering flash but went out of their way to help Microsoft develop silverlight to work correctly on a mac??? Are you dense??? Adobe screwed the pooch on flash for mac. This is not Apple's fault but Adobe's. If Microsoft can develop a similar program for the mac that works properly it pretty much proves that Adobe is the one dropping the ball. If it was Apple blocking stuff then Microsoft would have ran into the same problem yet they didn't. And sorry but if you are suggesting Apple should modify OSX to make flash work better then you are also not too bright. It is software developers responsibility to make products that work right on the platforms they decide on not the operating systems responsibility. You want to develop a program for windows or OSX you don't go to Microsoft and Apple and say "hey we need you to rewrite your OS so we can make a product work". They will tell you where to shove it and rightly so.

Complimenting Microsoft for making their product run right on a Mac isn't something risky to do. I think it speaks a lot for their developers that they took the time to make something work the way it should on a competitors platform instead of being like Adobe who can't get it right and instead start complaining that the platform is flawed. If a company can't make something work on a platform, that another company has been able to, then that is that companies problem and they need to look inside and see why they can't get it right. Maybe they have to look for people that can and spend the money to make it work if they want it too. Apple gave Adobe a lot of time to make it work before saying screw it we don't want your crap here.

Please try and be less sensitive. I specifically denied any claim of a conspiracy by Apple. I said that Apple is arrogant and obstinate. Apple behaved toward Adobe the same way that Apple behaves towards many others. They made ultimatums to Adobe that were in Apple's interest and not Adobe's, so Adobe walked away from Apple. Not personal. Not a conspiracy. Just business decisions on the part of each company (flavored with a little of Apple's well-known "it's my way or the highway" attitude towards others).

I can understand some of Apple's anger. Adobe seems to be putting much more development effort into its Windows software than its Mac versions. The version lag must be embarassing to Apple in what were some of its core professional and high-end amateur markets. But they have to understand Adobe's position. Do they invest in 10% of the market, or 90% of the market? Considering Apple's relatively low level of activity in the Mac Pro, high end desktop market segment, it looks a little like Apple may have made a similar decision to downplay that market segment.

It is either a credit to Microsoft's professionalism, or Ballmer's despiration to escape Gates' shadow, that Microsoft was able to elicit enough cooperation from Apple that Silverlight got off the ground. Then again, once Apple threw Adobe under the bus, I suspect that Apple had to be more tolerant of the remaining options or risk having absolutely no video support.

 

[Winni]

The entire Flash "debate" on this website is as open-minded as the Holy Catholic Inquisition or the Taliban. Really, some folks here should for a change try some own thinking and not just parroting the preaches of His Steveness.

All the problems with Flash that you folks are hallucinating about never happened on any of my Macs. Maybe you're not holding yours right.

 

[aohus]

"If FLASH STILL doesn't run right, and can't cope with current multi-touch tech after all this time....

you keep insisting on claiming it can't run cope with flash. can your iOS run flash? no. none at all. your mobile platform is limited. therefore iOS "can't cope with current multi-touch tech..." as you so 'eloquently' claim. iOS can't run flash at all. bummer bro

I never said streaming video was useless.
There are alternatives. Youtube use HTML5, Facebook use MP4 i believe.

Are you really that naive thinking that most sites on the web run HTML5? Boy you are mistaken. You can keep ignoring flash, pretend its not there, its what Jobs wants you to believe. I can't believe so many lemmings will do whatever it takes to defend Job's BUSINESS decisions. Man up and think for yourself.

Btw, not all youtube videos are available on HTML5. If you are not aware of this then you need to go back and educate yourself on iOS and HTML5.

Its a business decision - don't take it personally.

And you're being personally gimped by a decision that wasn't wrested upon the consumer itself but by business executives. And I thought Apple cared about its consumers... I bet if Apple made all apps paid only you'd probably agree and continue to be a yes man.

A great player that doesn't work on all the sites created by the same company that makes the software?

How does that make Adobe look?

Ok lets flip that around. How does it make Apple look pretending that the web doesn't run flash. Apple is really good at misleading the public, from antennagate, to making flash content have white spaces in Safari are all moves to hide something. And do you seriously think that Adobe should be responsible for all flash renderings on the internet? Thats like saying if an app from apple's app store does not run well, you should blame Apple's iOS developers. Keep simplifying though, you're only digging yourself a deeper hole.

 

[bkspero]

My point exactly..

Like all good busunessmen - he waits until a solution is up to his standard before running with it.

touchwheel mp3 players
touchscreen phone
Copy and paste on the ios
soapbar mouse
magic mouse
trackpad
tablet computers

Not the first in their fields - but significantly better.

Releasing something before its ready is not good.
defunct slate computers won't fly off the shelves until the os is integrated well enough.

But I do take your point about lying.
Its a business decision - if you tell people you are working on something brilliant for next year - who is going to buy this years products and pay for that development?

Nice evenhanded post. IMHO, you're overstating things a little in saying that all Apple's entries in your list were significatly better. Cursor movement in iOS is still too clumsy with a finger to say that the iOS cut and paste better than Palm's stylus (there are other reasons for not liking Palm's stylus, but it does provide very precise cursor control...like the cursor buttons or pads in Android). Same with the Mighty Mouse. Other than those foisted on people buying Macs, few of those were sold because it was (and is) terrible for either fast or precise control. The Magic Mouse is a wonder of engineering....and it won last years' "Carpal Tunnel" award from the Society of Orthopaedic Surgeons because of the awkward way it must be held to avoid activating the touch function with one's palm. Not a big seller, either.

But the iPod, the trackpads, and the iPad are wonderful devices that deserve the admiration you've given them.

So, if Adobe can pull off Flash on Android, Apple will be there in a .....Flash?

 

[bocomo]

Anyone who was expecting to have the same performance as he / she is having on their laptop or desktop computers is an idiot - fact...

Isn't that the goal? Why would i want worse performance?

Flash is NOT just a video and basing almost entire article on video arguments is sign of very disturbed brains or of someone being paid to write bullcrap - fact...

Video performance has been the biggest issue, along with touch interactivity (which was addressed in the article)

Player, as well as hardware that runs it, can only get better meaning that within couple of years or so we will have perfectly capable devices as well as software to run it without any hick-ups - fact...

seriously?

iDevice owners will keep on missing on half of the web forever - fact...

what a joke

For the end, I will ALWAYS rather take something that is "HIT OR MISS" than something that is just a MISS 100% - fact...

and that is your choice, i have a choice as well

So screw you Apple

Thanks for reading!

you are really bitter

 

[Journojulz]

you keep insisting on claiming it can't run cope with flash.

Nope - just saying flash can't handle multi touch.

You can keep ignoring flash, pretend its not there, its what Jobs wants you to believe.
How does it make Apple look pretending that the web doesn't run flash.

Its not pretending the web doesn't run flash - its suggesting that you can live without it.

Its up to the consumer to decide whether you actully can live without it.

And so far - I can.

And do you seriously think that Adobe should be responsible for all flash renderings on the internet?

I would have thought that the benefit of owning a closed proprietary format would mean that your player should handle the format.

Are there any wmv files that microsoft media player can't handle?

Nice evenhanded post. IMHO, you're overstating things a little..

And a fair reply. We could quibble over the minutae, but overall fair points.

But even if flash does ever 'just work' on mobile devices - it would threaten the app store and so it won't happen.

We either live with it or choose another platform.
And I am happy to live without flash.

 

[hwhalers]

I bet if Apple made all apps paid only you'd probably agree and continue to be a yes man.

Out of all the apps I've downloaded on my iPhone, nearly all of them cost money; not very much, mind you, but I don't see a problem paying a few dollars for good work. People who write software worth running don't usually give it away for free. I wouldn't have a problem with it because people who work deserve to get paid for it. What's the point?

 

[aohus]

Nope - just saying flash can't handle multi touch.

Its not pretending the web doesn't run flash - its suggesting that you can live without it.

Its up to the consumer to decide whether you actully can live without it.

And so far - I can.

I had the same thought process after I purchased iPad on launch day. After a couple months or so, I realized that I was missing a BIG portion of the web.

Personally, I can't browse the web without flash. I need it as a lot of websites I visit are flash dependent (viewing charts, data, multimedia: NYT for example). I can live without flash doing multi touch. After all, are you doing multi touch flash on your Mac Pro/MBP? No. When I load up flash on 2.2, I can easily press player controls using touch with no issues. Should I press play and pause at the same time?

Are there any wmv files that microsoft media player can't handle?

Absolutely. Are you new to the internet? Theres tons of corrupt WMV files out on the web that cannot be played properly unless using open source video players a la VLC.

 

[lockstocked]

I always thought performance of flash on n900 was nice.

Never tried it out on the android devices to compare though. Its not that necessary for browsing but it is nice to have sometimes.

 

[aohus]

Out of all the apps I've downloaded on my iPhone, nearly all of them cost money; not very much, mind you, but I don't see a problem paying a few dollars for good work. People who write software worth running don't usually give it away for free. I wouldn't have a problem with it because people who work deserve to get paid for it. What's the point?

Thats fine, paying for apps is important to keep the mobile app platform successful.

 

[batchtaster]

Adobe was making GoLive at the time which was a very poor attempt to compete with Flash

I'm sorry, but you lost me there, so I stopped reading the rest of your post and I can only assume that it was just as inaccurate.

GoLive Cyberstudio was acquired by Adobe and rebranded as Adobe GoLive in order to compete with Macromedia Dreamweaver. GoLive is/was an HTML editor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_GoLive

I suppose, yes, it would be a very poor way to compete with Flash. Just like Isuzu's Giga heavy-duty truck is a poor way to compete with Toyota's Corolla.

 

[tempusfugit]

You're not a Web dev are you ? Using HTML5 for video requires 3 seperate videos and loads of Javascript to detect which one to send. 1 H.264 encode, 1 Theora encode, and 1 Flash app with embedded H.264 video.

If you're a web dev, then I pity your clients for wasting their money. What you said is completely false. Tell me why, when using HTML5 for video, I would have to put a flash app up with h.264?

The whole darn point of HTML5 is not having to do that. Next.

 

[*LTD*]

Seems a lot of people are just butt-hurt because once again, "arrogant" Apple is proven right.

 

[chris200x9]

OMG IM chris200x9 AND I JOINED MACRUMORS 4 YEARS AGO AND AM STILL HERE FOR SOME REASON.

Seriously, 4 years and 800+ posts on a website you are obviously not very pleased with...

Flash on Droid is relevant to apple whether you think so or not. Move on and pipe down. I would expect macrumors to carry this story even if it had the opposite underlying message. If flash works well on a droid, I want to hear about it. I want to see it. If not, I still want to know. It might factor in to buying decisions we make down the road. Your childish indignation over this story's appearance on a mac website is just ridiculous.

I'm sorry I did not know this turned into a review site, I thought it was for rumors about apple an the mac platform. God forbid we talk about any apple news like XQuartz switching to xserver 1.9 from 1.4 or anything...

 

[LegendKillerUK]

If you're a web dev, then I pity your clients for wasting their money. What you said is completely false. Tell me why, when using HTML5 for video, I would have to put a flash app up with h.264?

The whole darn point of HTML5 is not having to do that. Next.

Not all web browsers are HTML 5 complient, therefore, a flash version still has to be created to reach all users.

 

[KnightWRX]

No it doesn't, I'm a web developer and using HTML5 video across browsers and platforms can be done with one video file and 6KB of Javascript. It's really incredibly simply to do.

1 video file ? Really ? And it will work on IE ?

If you're a web dev, then I pity your clients for wasting their money. What you said is completely false. Tell me why, when using HTML5 for video, I would have to put a flash app up with h.264?

The whole darn point of HTML5 is not having to do that. Next.

Internet Explorer still has a very big market share. It does not support the video tag. That is why you're going to put up a Flash app.

I do web dev in my spare time, it's a hobby.

Seems a lot of people are just butt-hurt because once again, "arrogant" Apple is proven right.

1 review from 1 guy from 1 unknown rag on the Internet does not prove Apple right. It just proves that Apple fans will use anything and everything to prove an argument and ignore all the proof against their position. This guy didn't even say Flash was bad on Droid 2. Yet this thread, all you have is wailing fans lighting candles to Steve and saying Flash failed miserably.

 

[Wondercow]

Consider the one button mouse. For years, and years, and years, and years it was a Jobs cause celebre'. He refused to admit that the world had passed Apple by in that regard. As far as Apple was concerned, customers did not want or need a two button mouse. And Mac users suffered for it (or the less doctrinaire purchased a Microsoft Mouse). First adopters used MS drivers until Apple was embarassed into copying MS and supporting 2nd button functions in OS X. Finally, he changed his mind completely and swung totally in the opposite direction. Giving Apple mice not only a second button, and a clicking directional device, but additional buttons, swipes, and who knows what else.

People love to go on and on about Jobs' ego and the one-button mouse, forgetting, of course, that NeXT computers used a two- or three-button mouse. How does that fit into the story? Jobs had a personal hatred of multi-button mice, but then got over it, only to hate them again? And how was Apple "embarrassed" by MS when NeXTstep/OpenStep--upon which OS X is built--used these mice? Lastly, I don't believe Apple has yet shipped a multi-button mouse; they have mice that work as one- or multi-button, but to the user the body is seamless.

 

[Otaviano]

1 video file ? Really ? And it will work on IE ?

What the heck are you rolling your eyes for?

Yes, with one video file (h264) you can create an HTML5 page that serves the video in through the video tag in Chrome and Safari and Javascript replaces it with with a Flash player which uses your one video file.

 

[KnightWRX]

What the heck are you rolling your eyes for?

Yes, with one video file (h264) you can create an HTML5 page that serves the video in through the video tag in Chrome and Safari and Javascript replaces it with with a Flash player which uses your one video file.

That's 2 video files. One in an mp4 container for the HTML5 clients, one in FLV for the Flash app you'll serve non HTML5 clients. The fact that both files use the same encoded video stream does not make them the same file.

 

[Otaviano]

That's 2 video files. One in an mp4 container for the HTML5 clients, one in FLV for the Flash app you'll serve non HTML5 clients. The fact that both files use the same encoded video stream does not make them the same file.

No it's not, you use something like JPlayer and it can read and serve your h264 file. You don't need to make any FLV files.

 

[Žalgiris]

That's 2 video files. One in an mp4 container for the HTML5 clients, one in FLV for the Flash app you'll serve non HTML5 clients. The fact that both files use the same encoded video stream does not make them the same file.

You are right that it's a hobby for you, because i can clearly see why.

 

[Swift]

A negative article about Flash on Macrumors! Grab your popcorn or treat of choice folks, this'll be a good'un.

(not that anyone will care, but the NYT site loads perfectly well on my HTC desire and a bit faster than it does on my iPad in my less than scientific test)

It's not the fact that it's on MacRumors; it was amazing to see that a committed Google guy saying this won't do. The comments section were a panic, too. "You're using bootleg software!" "I don't have those problems!" (Not clear if they're talking about Flash and FlashLite, in some cases.)

It has long been an article of faith that Jobs was just prejudiced about Flash on the mobile. I think that in a year's time, people will be either dropping the plug-in or installing clicktoflash equivalents.