Flash Player Performance on Droid 2 Found to Be Hit-or-Miss at Best

[KnightWRX]

multi touch is on android 2.2. multi-touch is enabled on android devices. whats wrong with you kid? this isn't android from 2008.

Android 1.5 in 2008 had multi-touch. It just didn't have pinch & zoom in the default browser configuration in the US. A lot of iPhone defense squad members used to used that against Android until they were shut up by a few well placed Youtube videos.

No, that most use of *Flash* for streaming video is worthless. That's what html5's video tag is for.

You're not a Web dev are you ? Using HTML5 for video requires 3 seperate videos and loads of Javascript to detect which one to send. 1 H.264 encode, 1 Theora encode, and 1 Flash app with embedded H.264 video.

Flash video, well, just works on 98% of Internet connected devices.

Only people who don't have an actual clue about the current mess behind the video tag would say things like you did.

 

[kntgsp]

They did test with a pull-out keyboard. And Flash still didn't recognize the keyboard presses.

Ahhhh. Ok then. Well then double fail for Flash if it doesn't even work with devices that do happen to have keyboards.

 

[andiwm2003]

well, this thread is deteriorating as any other thread about Flash here.

But I'll try anyway:
Does anybody have information why Flash has performance and compatibility issues on so many devices?

I mean, Adobe can make great products so they have the know how.

And Flash is strategically quite important to Adobe so why couldn't they create a better experience?

What are the technical difficulties they face?

 

[kurosov]

Android 1.5 in 2008 had multi-touch. It just didn't have pinch & zoom in the default browser configuration in the US. A lot of iPhone defense squad members used to used that against Android until they were shut up by a few well placed Youtube videos.



You're not a Web dev are you ? Using HTML5 for video requires 3 seperate videos and loads of Javascript to detect which one to send. 1 H.264 encode, 1 Theora encode, and 1 Flash app with embedded H.264 video.

Flash video, well, just works on 98% of Internet connected devices.

Only people who don't have an actual clue about the current mess behind the video tag would say things like you did.

hmmm.

<video>
<source src="video.webm" type='video/webm; codecs="vp8, vorbis"' />
<source src="video.mp4" type='video/mp4; codecs="avc1.42E01E, mp4a.40.2"' />
<source src="video.ogg" type='video/ogg; codecs="theora, vorbis"' />
NON HTML5 BROWSER FLASH CODE HERE.
</video>

sure. lots of javascript needed.

 

[CFreymarc]

Smartphones are switching to Intel's Atom next year anyways, so it's a moot point.

I'll believe that when I see the PVT units. There is a lot of shortcomings in Atom. I'm sure some phone maker run by accountants and Mad Men will try to get Android on Atom and sledge it out. Apple bought their own ARM semiconductor company for a reason.

 

[Otaviano]

You're not a Web dev are you ? Using HTML5 for video requires 3 seperate videos and loads of Javascript to detect which one to send. 1 H.264 encode, 1 Theora encode, and 1 Flash app with embedded H.264 video.

No it doesn't, I'm a web developer and using HTML5 video across browsers and platforms can be done with one video file and 6KB of Javascript. It's really incredibly simply to do.

 

[CFreymarc]

Wow.

I would think that anyone with any computer skills at all, let alone a CS degree, would believe that a compiler can translate any source code to any common machine language.

...

So, I think that the claim that "Flash was never designed for an ARM instruction set" is ultimate silliness. Search Yahoo! for "turing complete" to understand just how silly....

Then I will restate myself. Hacked up, fifth generation code with x86 in line assembly was never designed for an ARM instruction set. You want to know why Flash is so slow since Flash 8, they took out a lot of in-line assembly.

 

[CFreymarc]

So you're basically saying that Adobe Systems should halt operations and liquidate assets to ADBE shareholders, right?

Worked for Freddy Laker.

 

[Plutonius]

A non-story. Apple will never have flash in IOS4 no matter how well it does in Droid.

 

[kazmac]

Not surprised...

I really hope Adobe starts working with HTML5 and removes themselves from the Flash landscape. If this happens it won't be for awhile but I can hope.

 

[pmz]

Who cares, Flash sucks, everyone knows it,

Have you seen Yahoo Mail's new HTML5?

Flash is over. Long, long over.

 

[pmz]

A non-story. Apple will never have flash in IOS4 no matter how poorly it does in Droid.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Žalgiris]

Deceiving as best as they can is the key to success for a corporation. Making things seem better than they really are is key to success with any corporation. Having hardcore fans, and throwing out buss words, or spreading FUD about other companies and choosing careful words that they know their fans will repeat over and over on the internet is a big key to success with Apple, the corporation. (For example, "Adobe is lazy." As soon as Steve said that, Apple fans on this forum kept repeating it over and over and over again. It was amazing to me. Fact. Another one is the Mac vs PC commercials. I'm very familiar with Windows, Apple spread so many lies that it really turned me off to them because they were treating their Apple customers who know nothing about Windows like suckers. Sure enough those Apple customers would repeat the same FUD over and over, here and on youtube. 1st time Mac owner, but those commercials turned me off.)

Conspiracy 101?

 

[bkspero]

More a criticism of Mac hardware than flash...

Odd, I have a 3 ghz dual-core processor Mac and it struggles with 720p Flash videos on YouTube.

I acknowledge your point that except for the most recent Mac hardware that can utilize Flash's recent Mac video acceleration, Flash does not even run very well on many Mac computers. I experience that on my Macs.

Problem is that Flash runs just fine on even relatively old hardware running Windows 7. I have an old HP laptop with a 2 gHz dual core AMD chip and it handles Flash without a stutter. Normal cpu and gpu temperatures. Smooth as silk.

It's Apple's choices to lock down their OS and hardware and to be uncooperative with Adobe that causes your Mac to so badly underperform. A 3 ghz processor that can't run Flash! Embarassing.

 

[w0by]

Flash on Android

Yea, the flash on the Evo sucks, as well as the hack to make flash work on the iPhone. It doesn't even make sense to run it on a phone, because it's just too crappy.

 

[Žalgiris]

I acknowledge your point that except for the most recent Mac hardware that can utilize Flash's recent Mac video acceleration, Flash does not even run very well on many Mac computers. I experience that on my Macs.

Problem is that Flash runs just fine on even relatively old hardware running Windows 7. I have an old HP laptop with a 2 gHz dual core AMD chip and it handles Flash without a stutter. Normal cpu and gpu temperatures. Smooth as silk.

It's Apple's choices to lock down their OS and hardware and to be uncooperative with Adobe that causes your Mac to so badly underperform. A 3 ghz processor that can't run Flash! Embarassing.

Not true. Some Flash videos can make my MacBook whine like a pig, but i haven't seen a silverlight based video do that on my Mac. Any ideas? Also silverlight in general is way better than Flash performance wise on my MacBook. Another conspiracy 101. Sad day.

 

[bkspero]

Disagree

A non-story. Apple will never have flash in IOS4 no matter how well it does in Droid.

If Flash does not go away (as it may or may not), and processing speed continues to improve, and particularly if Android continues to expand its market share lead over iOS and market surveys show Flash is a key factor, then Apple will put Flash support into iOS in a heartbeat.

Remember Steve Jobs' critical explanation of why Macs would not have HDMI. How it was a limited technology that would be superceded by Displayport. Now take a look at the back of your new Mac Mini and see its HDMI port. He will never acknowledge his very public mistakes, but he will protect his wallet and correct them.

Same with multi-tasking, folders, and any number of other features which Apple felt were not needed in iOS at some point. Apps, too. Remember when the iPhone was first released and Apple explained that they would supply all the software and that independent software would be too risky.

The rest is history. When the market speaks loudly, even Mr. Jobs listens. Maybe, like in the case of Apps, he sees he's leaving money on the table. Or, as in the cases of multi-tasking and folders, he has to play catch-up to a competitor to keep his product competitive. But he will change if the money is there.

Will it be there? Who knows? But choice pushed Android devices to nearly 900% growth, and past iOS devices in really only 1 year (it took them another prior year to get its act together). And Flash, even a less than smooth initial release of Flash, is another big aspect of choice. Will Steve be content to become a (profitable) niche player in mobile devices, as Macs are in computers?

 

[nvelker]

For all of you Adobe fans out there... beware: This is the begining of the end.

 

[ryanw]

Honestly, I'm glad to see some proof now that Steve Jobs wasn't just trying to bury flash for some sort of personal vendetta.

Adobe is one of the biggest developers for the Mac. Apple would have given them the time of day to meet with them and let them present their offering for the iPhone. Being that google and adobe worked together, and made such a big deal about how they were releasing flash on this device, I would think they would have pulled out all the stops and released the best thing they could.

The YouTube reviews of flash on the droid 2 are hilarious. Trying to show how functional it is, butin contrast it shows what a mess flash is still.

I have had an excellent experience without flash. I feel that the main benefit is all the flash ads don't waste cycles on my iPhone. I don't frequent any heavy flash sites. Probably the only thing I would miss if flash was all the way dead is home star runner.

All the big sites that use flash for streaming, or anything at all, should look at how horrific the implementation of flash is on the droid 2. This should be a wake up call for everyone and realize that if they're going to hang on to flash, they're going to get replaced by someone doing the same thing without flash.

Google has made plenty of bad decisions. Their "google phone" attempt, google wave, etc. Sure, google makes plenty of good decisions too. But blindly following anyone's lead is bad. I now have my proof that Steve Jobs' open letter about flash was spot on. Adobe had their chance to prove that flash can provide a great mobile experience and they didn't.

 

[manu chao]

You're not a Web dev are you ? Using HTML5 for video requires 3 seperate videos and loads of Javascript to detect which one to send. 1 H.264 encode, 1 Theora encode, and 1 Flash app with embedded H.264 video.

Really? Can't you use the same H.264 encoded video both in HTML5 and Flash? And why bother with Theora, if any Firefox user can use Flash (since there is no Firefox on the Flash-lacking iOS devices).

That is one video asset, not three.

(I am not saying any H.264 stream can be used both for HTML5 and Flash, but in a lot of situations you produce a single stream that is useable by both.)

 

[bkspero]

Not sure of your point

Not true. Some Flash videos can make my MacBook whine like a pig, but i haven't seen a silverlight based video do that on my Mac. Any ideas? Also silverlight in general is way better than Flash performance wise on my MacBook. Another conspiracy 101. Sad day.

Not sure what your point is.

I agree that Silverlight runs great under both Windows and OS X. And that Flash runs great on Windows and poorly on most Macs running OS X. So you seem to be supporting my point that the problem is how Apple has integrated Flash support into its hardware and software. But you start with "Not true". Which is it? Do Macs run Flash as well as the other 90% of the world's computers, or don't they?

Or is your point to compliment Microsoft for making very good video streaming software, since Silverlight is a Microsoft development? If so, I compliment your courage for doing that on this site.

By the way, I am not suggesting that Apple's poor support for Flash is a conspiracy. Apple is arrogant and inflexible, Adobe has moved on for now, and we, Apple's customers, suffer (at least some of us). Plain and simple.

I've done some checking, and the problem seems to be with OS X, as there are many postings of people recommending that Mac owners who want to run Flash dual boot into Windows. Guidance is that Flash runs just fine under Windows using Mac hardware. So maybe it was your intention to compliment Microsoft software.

 

[bkspero]

Risky to judge based on version 1

Google has made plenty of bad decisions. Their "google phone" attempt, google wave, etc. Sure, google makes plenty of good decisions too. But blindly following anyone's lead is bad. I now have my proof that Steve Jobs' open letter about flash was spot on. Adobe had their chance to prove that flash can provide a great mobile experience and they didn't.

Flash may die, but it's risky to judge the future of something based on the Version 1 release. You made the point yourself. The Google 1 phone was a dog, and Android v1 was a laughingstock.

But I wouldn't describe them as Google mistakes. They were the first steps towards much better things. Now the G1 has been replaced by a host of Android phones that the market loves, and Android has blown past iOS in market share.

So you might consider being a little more cautious about declaring another technology, mobile Flash, to be a mistake based upon v1.0 performance.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Where Are All Those Flash Apologists?

Still in denial and still worshipping a tvrd.

 

[shartypants]

rip

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[sciwizam]

Apparently according to the flash ad buried on one of many open tabs - every 3o seconds i am reminded that "more and more men are shaving their armpits".

I am not missing that kind of intrusive nagging on my iPhone at all.

Between html5 on youtube and farmville the app store, the benefits of flash are not what they were.

No nagging as you can set it to behave like click2flash.