Flight Attendants Union Challenges FAA Decision Allowing Passengers to Use Electronics in All Phases of Flight

[zhenya]

Then why did he tell us 3 TIME?

told the whole flight to get out all electronics in the bag to turn it off.

The fact is, there are a lot of 3rd world travelers, many who do not have FAA approved devices.

And they cant simply say "Oh anyone without FAA approved devices, please turn your phones off"


After every passenger on the flight made an erratic move to turn off everything it was fine.

Every airline has this electronics rule, the enforce it EVERY trip. Don't get me wrong i never listened to that rule, but not after that time. because consumer electronics shouldn't really effect his instruments, but how do you know about NON-APPROVED FAA devices?

Because he didn't know what the source was and started grasping at straws and started with the one thing he could somewhat control. It doesn't make it so. Tens of millions of flights and literally billions of hours of flight time have occurred with consumer electronics basically unregulated. They don't crash planes.

 

[JHankwitz]

Look at me!

Waaa, waaa, waaa. They won't listen to us giving our boarding speech for the 200th time. I want them to look at me with excitement while I'm putting on my mime show.

 

[macrumor1]

Wrong - The electronics rule was rarely enforced in First Class. If you sat in the window seat the Flight Attendants were too lazy to talk to you. If you sat in the aisle in coach however...

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what do you mean wrong?


everyone was told to turn off electronics first class, window seats. there was a legitimate concern and urgency, you can hear in the captains voice and you can see in the flight attendants urgency to get everyone to turn it off.


I'm sorry, were you on my flight? did you even read and comprehend my post?

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i pay 500-2,000 dollars for a flight, i expect my drinks and food to be served to me.


Wi-Fi isnt standard on international flights because there is no capability yet.

No movies? what the hell are you going to do for 13 hours? You can only work, read, play games so much.

150 flights? i assume they're all domestic flights. Considering you mentioned little rock.


No movies, vending machines don't work for International Flights.

Not to mention how many people would just be abusing the Vending machines getting unlimited free drinks. 3rd world country dudes would just take an extreme advantage of this, not to mention I've seen our own citizens do classless things as well.

Charge them? what currency is it going to take? If it takes all, thats going to be one damn expensive vending machine with some complex software.


13-16Hour flights is much more different then 2-5 Hour flights

I do about 90% domestic but layer in a few international flights per year. Normally 6-8 hours but some as long as 13. My last flight back from China they moved my seat to another one b/c the entertainment garbage was broken. Dropped from a reclining exit row to a center seat next to a screaming kid. Awesome. Never turned on the TV. Was not allowed to sit in my original seat - it stayed vacant.

For entertainment - pack an iPad, Kindle or magazine. My tickets cost more because of the terrible in flight entertainment installed on every seat.

Short haul - you can pack you own food and drink and pack out your own trash just like a bus or taxi. The point is that the Flight Attendants are useless on short haul. The food and drink are irrelevant. Sub a bucket of free waters by the gate and I am happy.

Long haul - I agree that at some point you need food and drink. On trains you get meals at a central location. I would prefer this over ever seeing a flight attendant again. If they must exist ban them on flights under 3 hours.

For payments - no cash, credit only. Currency problem solved. Charge a reasonable price for food and drink and see the volume drop by 90% overnight.

First class is a different story. The flight attendants tend to be polite and well trained. They don't enforce idiotic rules and they don't wake you up.

Last up - break 1 finger every time an airline employee uses that horrible PING intercom system to communicate. If I had a dollar for every time that thing woke me up...

 

[Recognition]

What about people who are allowed to carry babies on their lap,

In the UK you are given a seatbelt extension which fastens to your seat belt and then goes around your baby.

 

[TWSS37]

It is *not* just about the safety briefing.

What if something does go wrong during takeoff or landing - the most common time for something to go wrong?

Will you pay attention if you are engrossed in your cocooned personal world?

Of course, some idiot is always going to walk into a manhole or off the edge of a cliff because they are not paying attention while staring at a little screen, but we can't help those people. We can try to make sure that people are alert and paying attention to any instructions or information during takeoff and landing.

Plus, it is just plain rude. The flight crew is going to come though and make sure everybody has their seat belts on, for example. They should not have to take the extra time to get your attention for that or any other purpose.

I'd argue the opposite. While yes, takeoff/landing is the most "common" time for something to occur, it's still incredibly rare - to the point where if something were to go wrong, it might be best for you to be distracted as to not begin to panic as the most likely outcome is that the problem will be resolved. I do not think, if a true emergency occurred in which action had to take place, using an electronic device would make your chances of survival any more or less likely.

Not to mention, these phases of flight generally cause the most stress/anxiety for passengers; by allowing people to distract themselves potentially saves the flight attendants from having to deal with someone having a panic attack.

 

[loon3y]

Because he didn't know what the source was and started grasping at straws and started with the one thing he could somewhat control. It doesn't make it so. Tens of millions of flights and literally billions of hours of flight time have occurred with consumer electronics basically unregulated. They don't crash planes.

Bluetooth, Cellular connectivity has known to mess with instruments.


Which is why they have that rule, after the whole flight turned off their electronics, including the ones in their bags. The issue stopped.


Maybe it wasn't, but the chances it was one faulty devices is probably likely. I mean it did stop after we turned off all the devices.

He asked us the 1st time i didnt, 30 mins later 2nd time he did asked people started turing it off, 30 mins later he asked us again this time the whole plane turned off everything.


i already stated i never followed that rule, and i was fine in ALL My flights and i have to fly frequently in one year.

But it happened this time, and it wasn't fun at all from the concern of the captain's voice.

 

[TWSS37]

Good for you. Not everyone flys as much as you do.

Then those people should know to pay attention. Just because one passenger is listening to music during these announcements means you have to. How about people take accountability? Interested in the safety announcements? Great, take out your headphones.

 

[zhenya]

Bluetooth, Cellular connectivity has known to mess with instruments.


Which is why they have that rule, after the whole flight turned off their electronics, including the ones in their bags. The issue stopped.


Maybe it wasn't, but the chances it was one faulty devices is probably likely. I mean it did stop after we turned off all the devices.

He asked us the 1st time i didnt, 30 mins later 2nd time he did asked people started turing it off, 30 mins later he asked us again this time the whole plane turned off everything.


i already stated i never followed that rule, and i was fine in ALL My flights and i have to fly frequently in one year.

But it happened this time, and it wasn't fun at all from the concern of the captain's voice.

I'm an engineer in an industry that uses many similar sensors to those used in an airplane. When our users see erratic readings in the field they come up with every story in the book as to what the source is. The captain could have just as easily told everyone to stand on their heads and had the same result. The captain has absolutely no idea what the source of the problem was.

 

[loon3y]

I do about 90% domestic but layer in a few international flights per year. Normally 6-8 hours but some as long as 13. My last flight back from China they moved my seat to another one b/c the entertainment garbage was broken. Dropped from a reclining exit row to a center seat next to a screaming kid. Awesome. Never turned on the TV. Was not allowed to sit in my original seat - it stayed vacant.

For entertainment - pack an iPad, Kindle or magazine. My tickets cost more because of the terrible in flight entertainment installed on every seat.

Short haul - you can pack you own food and drink and pack out your own trash just like a bus or taxi. The point is that the Flight Attendants are useless on short haul. The food and drink are irrelevant. Sub a bucket of free waters by the gate and I am happy.

Long haul - I agree that at some point you need food and drink. On trains you get meals at a central location. I would prefer this over ever seeing a flight attendant again. If they must exist ban them on flights under 3 hours.

For payments - no cash, credit only. Currency problem solved. Charge a reasonable price for food and drink and see the volume drop by 90% overnight.

First class is a different story. The flight attendants tend to be polite and well trained. They don't enforce idiotic rules and they don't wake you up.

Last up - break 1 finger every time an airline employee uses that horrible PING intercom system to communicate. If I had a dollar for every time that thing woke me up...

Since you don't seem to fly international much at all, flights don't cost more because of the entertainment. They have pretty recent and at times in theater moves. I like it, I'm not a 13 hour flight. i want a variety of things including my Macbook, iPad, and iPhone.

International flights are seasonal, during vacation times they rise.

For the food, I'm not going to pack my own food. I'm not keen on airplane food but i definitely don't want to have more luggage or stuff to carry then i have to.


since you don't have a lot of experience traveling internationally. Hell no i don't want people to bring their packed food. I've experienced ethnic foods brought on to airplanes, in that confined space, it's not pleasant to smell.

In all my travels, i never seen the Ping systems used when not needed.



About the first class thing, i guess you haven't read my post AT ALL. There was problems with the cockpit instruments, EVERY passenger turned off their devices, in their pockets, on hand, and in their overhead luggages.

 

[TWSS37]

I love my tech. If Apple based their battery statistics on my usage, they would look horrible just because I love to use it constantly. But is 10-20 minutes really that necessary to consumers? If anything, a lot of people, including me, need those 10-20 minutes off of their phone anyways

Then just do it. Do you really need a rule telling you that you can't do something in order for you to turn off your phone?

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No, we do not *all* know all of that.

For one, it is a terrible example to set for children, most of whom have probably never been on a plane before.

And there are others who have never flown or fly infrequently. They should be made to feel the instructions are important, and should not feel intimidated for actually paying attention. (And it is easy for groupthink to make people feel fools for doing what is prudent, when others are not...)


Again, it's as much courtesy as anything else. Maybe you don't take takeoffs/landings seriously, assume nothing will go wrong, and don't want to think about it in case it does. And, it's true - statistically, you are a lot safer than in a car.

Have some respect, though, for those who are less experienced flyers. At least try not to make a show of ignoring the announcements and rules. (Which I have seen happen plenty of times...)

A terrible example to set for children? Are you kidding me? Why don't you let parents of the child do the parenting.

 

[loon3y]

I'm an engineer in an industry that uses many similar sensors to those used in an airplane. When our users see erratic readings in the field they come up with every story in the book as to what the source is. The captain could have just as easily told everyone to stand on their heads and had the same result. The captain has absolutely no idea what the source of the problem was.

God, I'm never flying malaysian again. Half the price since the 2 crashes this year.


Still taking it on my return flight from Chennai to Shanghai :\

 

[TWSS37]

I don't fly a lot, it has reverted to mostly personal flights, but each and every time onedoes fly you see people blissfully ignoring all reasonable requests. Sometimes that is due to them being drunk but most of the time simple stupidity comes to mind. It is especially worrisome when the stupid are obviously sober.

The problem here is that if a plane does crash these idiots become an extreme danger to the rest of the passenger base. It is pretty disgusting that these self absorbed people can't give up a few minutes of their trips for the good of everyone on the flight.

I'd say the plane crashing is the more extreme danger in your scenario. Could you please cite an example of a plane crashing, everyone being just fine and calm (because you know, the plane just crashed, why wouldn't everyone be serene and docile?), but an "idiot passenger" created the extreme danger?

 

[BruceEBonus]

Hello? Yes. Yes!! I'm on the plane. Yes. The PLANE. Yeah. Florida. Yeah. Disney...DiSNEYLAND yeah. Kids couldn't sleep last night. THE KIDS! Yeah. Couldn't sleep. SLEEP! That's it. Our Jim's been sick already twice. Yeah. Sick. No hang on. What if I sit over here? I'll get up and see if you can hear me better in the aisle excuse me. Excuse me..can I just stand ...here. Yes. Can you hear me now? Oh. Wait a minute. The hostess woman is telling me I have to sit down cos it's half way through take off TAKE OFF,!! No. Not you. The plane. It's taking off. Yeah. Dismeyland. Yeah. Love you too. Say hello to Dad won't you? I know we saw you a few hours ago. But miss you.....DISNEyLAND..NO. Not Paris. The real one. Yeah. ok. See you ...I'll ring when we get there. No. DISNEKYLAND. Bye. Yeah .....l

 

[TWSS37]

Here's a interesting concept -

IT'S NOT YOUR AIRCRAFT. YOU'RE A GUEST. DO AS YOU'RE TOLD.



Bring it.

The next time an airline gives me a plane ticket for free will be the first time I'll ever feel like a "guest".

You are a customer - there is a canyon sized difference between the two.

Brought.

 

[Gasu E.]

Really? Was that actually called for? I think not. If you're taking a flight, isn't it the PASSENGERS responsibility to be at the airport, checked-in and at the gate on time? If you choose to run late, you don't get extra rights at Starbucks. You join the queue and wait like everyone else!

He was responding to some idiot claiming to be a Starbucks employee, who stated that when people at an airport indicated their plane was boarding, he intentionally slowed down and then gave them the wrong product. While the response was rude, the person who claimed to be a Starbucks barista was unfit for a service job; and personally, I find it disturbing that someone like that would be in a service job. It's odd that you would sympathize more with someone who aggressively and proudly does a terrible job at something they are paid for, than a stressed-out customer who may have slightly unreasonable expectations.

 

[macrumor1]

Since you don't seem to fly international much at all, flights don't cost more because of the entertainment. They have pretty recent and at times in theater moves. I like it, I'm not a 13 hour flight. i want a variety of things including my Macbook, iPad, and iPhone.

International flights are seasonal, during vacation times they rise.

For the food, I'm not going to pack my own food. I'm not keen on airplane food but i definitely don't want to have more luggage or stuff to carry then i have to.


since you don't have a lot of experience traveling internationally. Hell no i don't want people to bring their packed food. I've experienced ethnic foods brought on to airplanes, in that confined space, it's not pleasant to smell.

In all my travels, i never seen the Ping systems used when not needed.



About the first class thing, i guess you haven't read my post AT ALL. There was problems with the cockpit instruments, EVERY passenger turned off their devices, in their pockets, on hand, and in their overhead luggages.

Good point on ethnic foods.

In First Class the Flight Attendants rarely enforced the rules but that is where the devices are supposedly the most dangerous.

Have flown to the following multiple times: Asia, South America, Alaska, Hawaii, Europe, Middle East. Never once used the in flight entertainment. I prefer to pack my own. The airline screens are low resolution, filthy, and the content is abysmal.

The extra cost is the millions to equip every seat back with the hardware and licensing for content. I get zero value out of this and its baked into my ticket on every flight. You are also paying more to have full time union employees walk around and pass out free drinks.

 

[nunes013]

They should make it interesting, change it up, maybe put jokes in, make it a show, dancing girls and all that jaz. Then people will watch and listen.

Virgin Airlines made this hahaha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtyfiPIHsIg

 

[loon3y]

Good point on ethnic foods.

In First Class the Flight Attendants rarely enforced the rules but that is where the devices are supposedly the most dangerous.

Have flown to the following multiple times: Asia, South America, Alaska, Hawaii, Europe, Middle East. Never once used the in flight entertainment. I prefer to pack my own. The airline screens are low resolution, filthy, and the content is abysmal.

The extra cost is the millions to equip every seat back with the hardware and licensing for content. I get zero value out of this and its baked into my ticket on every flight. You are also paying more to have full time union employees walk around and pass out free drinks.

Isn't just mainly US based airline flight attendants unionized? I have no idea on this one. I know United is unionized, which is why the attendants tend to be ****ing rude.


But yeah, the ethnic foods is a no go. I don't mind the smell of bacon, but pickled fish or what not... No.

 

[macrumor1]

Virgin Airlines made this hahaha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtyfiPIHsIg

Bad idea Virgin - What is the point of this nonsense. Flight Attendants should keep this to the FAA minimum and then keep silent unless there is an emergency. Where else do people with "authority" do comedy skits to get noticed.

If you want C list entertainment go to Branson, MO. Keep it off my flights.

 

[mainstreetmark]

No, we do not *all* know all of that.

For one, it is a terrible example to set for children, most of whom have probably never been on a plane before.

And there are others who have never flown or fly infrequently. They should be made to feel the instructions are important, and should not feel intimidated for actually paying attention. (And it is easy for groupthink to make people feel fools for doing what is prudent, when others are not...)


Again, it's as much courtesy as anything else. Maybe you don't take takeoffs/landings seriously, assume nothing will go wrong, and don't want to think about it in case it does. And, it's true - statistically, you are a lot safer than in a car.

Have some respect, though, for those who are less experienced flyers. At least try not to make a show of ignoring the announcements and rules. (Which I have seen happen plenty of times...)

I'm not disrespecting them at all. Nor, am I advocating for the removal of the safety briefing. My point is, it's not necessary for everyone, every time, since the content of the safety briefing is quite simple, and once is likely enough. But for those of us who fly reluctantly due to a variety of reasons, it would be an aid to be able to "relax" via whatever you've got on your device. Any emergency will result in further announcements, and if completely zoned out, a nudge from the guy in the seat next to you, pointing out that the wing fell off.

 

[jweinraub]

This doesn't even make sense... Few really listened to the safety briefing anyway. Many people read a magazine or even SkyMall. Device or not if you want to pay attention you can. If you don't want to listen you're not going to.

Yup. This! I am not a big traveller but still fly about 50,000 km per year and never listen to the safety briefing. I've heard it before know the drill and most of it is common sense anyway. People that sit in exit rows, however, need to read that pamphlet however so their comfort isn't 100% concern for everyone else on the aircraft.

 

[Firelock]

Then why did he tell us 3 TIME?

told the whole flight to get out all electronics in the bag to turn it off.

The fact is, there are a lot of 3rd world travelers, many who do not have FAA approved devices.

And they cant simply say "Oh anyone without FAA approved devices, please turn your phones off"


After every passenger on the flight made an erratic move to turn off everything it was fine.

Every airline has this electronics rule, the enforce it EVERY trip. Don't get me wrong i never listened to that rule, but not after that time. because consumer electronics shouldn't really effect his instruments, but how do you know about NON-APPROVED FAA devices?

The fact is many if not most people don't even know how to put their devices in "airplane mode." They think turning them "off" or just putting them in their pocket is enough. Even the FAA had to admit that aircraft avionics had been tested millions of times over the past two decades through people inadvertently leaving their devices on.

 

[caesarp]

Geez people. The safety briefing argument makes zero sense. Even if I have no book, magazine or device in my lap, it doesn't mean I'm paying attention. I'm looking out the window, talking to my wife, or simply thinking of other stuff. The not holding a device argument fails on logic.

Flight Attendants cannot control my brain. Sorry. In the days before iPads I read a book or magazine. Now I read a kindle or iPad. Nothing has changed but the thing that is displaying the words.

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The fact is many if not most people don't even know how to put their devices in "airplane mode." They think turning them "off" or just putting them in their pocket is enough. Even the FAA had to admit that aircraft avionics had been tested millions of times over the past two decades through people inadvertently leaving their devices on.

Even if they know how, they don't do it. Its all silly.

 

[BigInDallas]

WOW talk about entitlement. I cant use my phone/iPad for 20 minutes.

 

[ZCT]

Wow, a lawsuit. That sounds like the unnecessary lining of some lawyer's pockets.