Flight Attendants Union Challenges FAA Decision Allowing Passengers to Use Electronics in All Phases of Flight

[ptb42]

Because he didn't know what the source was and started grasping at straws and started with the one thing he could somewhat control. It doesn't make it so. Tens of millions of flights and literally billions of hours of flight time have occurred with consumer electronics basically unregulated. They don't crash planes.

I have this rock I carry in my pocket. Since I started carrying it, I have never been attacked by a tiger. Therefore, my rock must prevent tiger attacks.

By making your last statement, you have made the same kind of false correlation, and demonstrated you don't understand the problem.

US airlines have a great safety record because the FAA and the operators have implemented policies with redundancy in depth. A single error or failure won't crash a plane. But, almost every accident in the past few decades can be traced to multiple errors, compounding the problem.

Personal electronic devices have been documented to cause interference on multiple occasions. It didn't cause an accident, because pilots are trained to deal with even complete radio failure. But, the distraction could have easily been the first in a chain of events that led to an accident.

 

[iSee]

The AFA is fighting this because they understand that it will cost them some jobs: it takes a lot of flight attendants to keep passengers from doing perfectly reasonable things.

 

[caesarp]

WOW talk about entitlement. I cant use my phone/iPad for 20 minutes.

Why do you care if the words I'm reading are displayed on an iPad or on the pages of a book?

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

i was on a flight 1 week ago and one device was giving problems to the cockpit.

It got to the point where the captain of the plane had to ask 3 times, and asked ALL ELECTRONICS to to be turned off, even stowed away in the overhead compartments.


The captain's voice wasn't patient, the was a legitimate concern, it was messing up the airplanes instruments.


The fact is, everyone has to turn it off, while its prob not apple or samsung products, you cant just have one person have it while the others doesnt.

and people are stupid as hell, while people were borderline panicking one guy was still taking pictures with his tablet.

We were over international waters, I'm not trying to die because someone wants to use their smartphone/tablet.

Turn that **** off, coming form someone that actually had an incident with smartphones recently on a flight.

Then why isn't the pilot union also protesting FAA's decision? Makes no sense.

 

[caesarp]

The AFA is fighting this because they understand that it will cost them some jobs: it takes a lot of flight attendants to keep passengers from doing perfectly reasonable things.

Actually I think its just that the AFA wants to be part of the process. They feel left out. Poor things.

 

[coffeemadmanUK]

Couldn't my device still become a "dangerous projectile" even if it were turned off?

Exactly my thought.

A lot of airlines I've flown on already allow this (British Airways, Emirates, Philippine Airlines) and I have yet to feel the urge to throw the phone at an attendant.

Frankly if you're the kind of person who wants to throw something, I'm sure you would throw something else if your phone wasn't available.

 

[C DM]

Nothing's stopped them from listening to the safety announcements. I'd prefer to listen to some music in peace...

That's not what that part of the discussion was about.

 

[coffeemadmanUK]

Then why did he tell us 3 TIME?

told the whole flight to get out all electronics in the bag to turn it off.

The fact is, there are a lot of 3rd world travelers, many who do not have FAA approved devices.

And they cant simply say "Oh anyone without FAA approved devices, please turn your phones off"


After every passenger on the flight made an erratic move to turn off everything it was fine.

Every airline has this electronics rule, the enforce it EVERY trip. Don't get me wrong i never listened to that rule, but not after that time. because consumer electronics shouldn't really effect his instruments, but how do you know about NON-APPROVED FAA devices?

Wrong.

Not every airline does.

Maybe in the US.

I flew Emirates to Dubai and onwards to Malaysia last month.

Wifi available on board. You were also allowed to use your phone as normal for calls once at cruising altitude.

Fact is that if the risk was great enough phones would be banned completely from the deck. They aren't because the risk is minimal (note: I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible).

 

[Mazeman]

Just shut up and get back to serving meals.

I miss the good old days when your tray table was served with warm, delicious projectiles.

 

[macrumor1]

The fact is many if not most people don't even know how to put their devices in "airplane mode." They think turning them "off" or just putting them in their pocket is enough. Even the FAA had to admit that aircraft avionics had been tested millions of times over the past two decades through people inadvertently leaving their devices on.

The most dangerous thing that will happen is that they run their batteries down due to a low signal.

If phones were dangerous they would not be allowed on planes at all.

You can't fly with a 4 oz tube of toothpaste. That is enforced religiously by the blue shirts. If cell phones are proven to legitimately dangerous they should be confiscated and thrown away (stolen and resold) by the TSA.

 

[iolinux333]

No one likes this rule and the only ones for it are flight attendants desperate to keep it active to show that their job actually has a meaning. Next, they will try to ban robotic drink carts.

I agree. ALL of the tasks currently performed on giant airliners carrying 600+ passengers should be automated, including flying the aircraft from takeoff to landing. All of these tasks could be accomplished by apps, running on a modified version of iOS 8. Really there just needs to be one responsible person on the plane, in charge of rebooting the system when things don't seem right, or the plane is lagging.

 

[tattooedyuppie]

That's not true. There has been proven cases where people were saved by following instructions. Those procedures might sound stupid but they save lives

It's called a joke, man!

 

[tbrinkma]

I may not log as many hours as you, but I do accumulate over 1000 hours/year on a 747-SP.
1. books do not have headphones which interfere with crew briefings.
2. FACT: cell phones interfere with communication gear on the aircraft.
3. books do not contain Li-Ion batteries which can become a flammable/smoke hazard if damaged when some 5 yo drops it and is slides down the isle. Please explain to me, as a crew member, why I am specifically trained to combat a Li-Ion fire onboard an aircraft?

1. Headphones don't interfere with crew briefings unless said headphones are thrown at the crew. People can *sleep* through said crew briefings, so the headphones are a moot point.

2. You have a confirmed, documented instance of this that you can point to? Somehow I doubt it. (The FAA couldn't find any such instances when it did the studies and research leading up to changing this rule.)

3. You're specially trained on Li-Ion battery fires because the normal response (throw some water/soda on the fire) doesn't work, and because they give off more smoke than most other non-catastrophic fires on board a plane. The fact that you're apparently *unaware* of this doesn't instill a lot of confidence in you or your training.

 

[BruceEBonus]

On the last flight on Concorde an announcement came over the Tannoy "Ladies and gentlemen This is your Captain speaking. Congratulations.! We have just flown from London to New York in four and a half hours today". I turned to the air hostess and enquired:"Excuse me,Miss-but was that a record?" To which she replied. "No Sir - it really was the Captain speaking".




(For our younger listeners- a record was a vinyl disc which had recorded speech or music on it. It preceded the audio cassette which you may have heard of. And also the compact disc which you will have heard of. And of course the MP3 file which you listen to now. Therefore the "joke"' in this instance is a play on the confusion over the term 'record' in this instance. Please ask a parent or senior staff member for further clarification)

 

[WinstonRumfoord]

I have this rock I carry in my pocket. Since I started carrying it, I have never been attacked by a tiger. Therefore, my rock must prevent tiger attacks.

Sir, how much to buy one of your rocks??

 

[RedOrchestra]

Today's generation who believe everything is a right, when, in fact, most things are still a privilege.

They learned that right thing from Oprah - nope you don't have to earn anything you just demand it, it's your right. When is that woman going to fade away.

 

[scottw324]

They care because flight attendants bear some responsibility for the safety of the aircraft. If you are messing around on your iPhone or iPad then you are not paying attention to the safety announcements at the beginning of the flight, nor are you paying attention to any unexpected behaviour of the airplane during landing.

I just can't understand how it is so hard for somebody to stow away their gadgets for the first and last 10-15 minutes of the flight.

You know, opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one... Yours is noted. MANY people, including me, like the allowance to use them during all stages of flights. It has been a long time coming and just because some steward/ist or flight attendant is a little butt hurt because no one is paying attention to their demo won't change anything. Many of use stopped paying attention years ago.

lets see if I got the majority of it here:

Seatbelt usage, CHECK
Emergency Exits, CHECK
Floatation devices, CHECK
Oxygen Mask deployment, CHECK
Some mumbo, jumbo about air miles if you sign up for an airline CC, CHECK
beverage/snack cart purchases, CHECK

honestly, did I miss anything major? Been flying for over 25 years. I think I got what I need down pretty well. There hasn't been anything really earth shattering with these briefs that I can remember in a very long time. As for projectiles. Unless everything, to include books, magazines, etc... are going to be required to be put away, I don't think they have much of a leg to stand on with this issue. Most just turn the their devices off but keep them in their hand or lap, so still a concern regardless of if in use or not.

 

[zhenya]

I have this rock I carry in my pocket. Since I started carrying it, I have never been attacked by a tiger. Therefore, my rock must prevent tiger attacks.

By making your last statement, you have made the same kind of false correlation, and demonstrated you don't understand the problem.

US airlines have a great safety record because the FAA and the operators have implemented policies with redundancy in depth. A single error or failure won't crash a plane. But, almost every accident in the past few decades can be traced to multiple errors, compounding the problem.

Personal electronic devices have been documented to cause interference on multiple occasions. It didn't cause an accident, because pilots are trained to deal with even complete radio failure. But, the distraction could have easily been the first in a chain of events that led to an accident.

Yet consumer electronics have been essentially unregulated on flights forever with no accidents ever attributed (even partially) to them. That's why the FAA finally yielded. In all aspects of life you have to balance some level of convenience with safety. In the case of consumer electronics on airplanes, the balance is so overwhelmingly in favor of their safety that there is literally no counterargument to be made. When the FAA was considering this change the 'pay attention' aspect of the rule was laughably absurd. Now this group is trying to use that as the primary reason they should not be allowed? Please.

----------

You know, opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one... Yours is noted. MANY people, including me, like the allowance to use them during all stages of flights. It has been a long time coming and just because some steward/ist or flight attendant is a little butt hurt because no one is paying attention to their demo won't change anything. Many of use stopped paying attention years ago.

lets see if I got the majority of it here:

Seatbelt usage, CHECK
Emergency Exits, CHECK
Floatation devices, CHECK
Oxygen Mask deployment, CHECK
Some mumbo, jumbo about air miles if you sign up for an airline CC, CHECK
beverage/snack cart purchases, CHECK

honestly, did I miss anything major? Been flying for over 25 years. I think I got what I need down pretty well. There hasn't been anything really earth shattering with these briefs that I can remember in a very long time. As for projectiles. Unless everything, to include books, magazines, etc... are going to be required to be put away, I don't think they have much of a leg to stand on with this issue. Most just turn the their devices off but keep them in their hand or lap, so still a concern regardless of if in use or not.

Exactly. The fatality rate for passenger rail service is considerably higher than that of airplanes, yet we aren't inundated with all these inane reminders over and over again. I fly far more than I'd like, and the best thing that could happen to airline travel would be if it became more like traveling on a train - you get on, and you are LEFT ALONE. For some reason though airlines are the only form of travel where even a single freak accident is grounds for drastically restricting the freedom of passengers for years to come.

 

[JohnStrass]

"NO! you can't have your 20 minutes of freedom!"

More like 2 hours if you are stuck on a runway waiting fro take off....

 

[Cloudane]

Hah... there's only one reason they're allowing them in the first place, and it's obvious from what's written on the picture.

Interesting how something is suddenly no longer "dangerous" when they've figured out how to monetise it! I imagine the risk of the devices becoming projectiles happens when the passengers notice how much the in-flight wifi costs...

 

[manu chao]

Couldn't my device still become a "dangerous projectile" even if it were turned off?

It could if you were in the habit of holding your phone in your hand even when not using it (instead of putting it into a pocket when not using it).

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

The AFA is fighting this because they understand that it will cost them some jobs: it takes a lot of flight attendants to keep passengers from doing perfectly reasonable things.

Did we not need flight attendants before we had cell phones or did you think we didn't fly back then?

 

[scoobydoo99]

It is *not* just about the safety briefing.

What if something does go wrong during takeoff or landing - the most common time for something to go wrong?

Will you pay attention if you are engrossed in your cocooned personal world?

Of course, some idiot is always going to walk into a manhole or off the edge of a cliff because they are not paying attention while staring at a little screen, but we can't help those people. We can try to make sure that people are alert and paying attention to any instructions or information during takeoff and landing.

Plus, it is just plain rude. The flight crew is going to come though and make sure everybody has their seat belts on, for example. They should not have to take the extra time to get your attention for that or any other purpose.

True, but if they were actually concerned about situational awareness, they should be pursuing a requirement to keep window shades up during takeoff and landing. I am still amazed at the number of people who are comfortable not knowing anything about what's happening outside the aircarft during takeoff and landing.

Did we blow a tire? Did an engine fall off? Are we still on the runway or in the water or engulfed in flames or upside down or what?

I don't know. Your window shades are closed and we can't see outside!

 

[manu chao]

Why do you care if the words I'm reading are displayed on an iPad or on the pages of a book?

The iPad is heavier and more pointed. Plus, listening to audio on top of looking at something makes it more likely you don't listen to any announcements.

----------

A lot of airlines I've flown on already allow this (British Airways, Emirates, Philippine Airlines) and I have yet to feel the urge to throw the phone at an attendant.

Frankly if you're the kind of person who wants to throw something, I'm sure you would throw something else if your phone wasn't available.

If this was a joke, it wasn't terribly funny.

 

[klo6]

I have severe sinus and allergy issues and also suffer from migraines. The popping of my ears can cause about 3 days of misery. I have found that using the type of earbud that has the little silicone tips that create a suction and listening to fairly loud music during take off and landing can completely stop my ears from popping...AT ALL!! It also works for both of my daughters. It's the only reason we still own that type of headphones as we all switch to Beats for the rest of the flight.

If not wanting to be miserable for days during and after my vacation makes me a whiney "2 yr old" (as some ignorant posters have called other posters) ... Then ok I guess I'm a whiney 2 yr old.

(Also, this doesn't mean that I couldn't listen to the safety stuff BEFORE take off... But I simply don't need to hear it AGAIN.)