Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[maflynn]

I don’t know. I found the M1 architecture made having a relatively cheap mac easier to get so more budget can go to a gaming PC

That's kind of where I'm at. I have a M1 MBP, great machine. has a lot to offer. My intent was to use this as my primary laptop, but things didn't work out. So now I have more of a hybrid set up. I have my Pc for gaming, and other tasks where windows is superior, and then I have my Mac for things it does better.

 

[keithop]

That's kind of where I'm at. I have a M1 MBP, great machine. has a lot to offer. My intent was to use this as my primary laptop, but things didn't work out. So now I have more of a hybrid set up. I have my Pc for gaming, and other tasks where windows is superior, and then I have my Mac for things it does better.

yep agreed.

So I don't game on desktop/laptop. I'm happy with PS5 and steamdeck for that.

Which means that for me, with the m1 (not even m2) chips, I can get a really powerful mac desktop, laptop and it'll be completely silent. I've actually got a mac mini m1 which eats up anything I ask of it and a very overspecced mac studio which is completely overkill but thankfully also silent.

The PCs... I have a 2022 dell desktop from work, well specced... fan is a bit noisy, build quality is, well, plasticy ok. Then I have the PC I built with the 13th gen i9 and everything top end spec other than gpu because again, gaming not needed. The one I built is certainly louder than all the macs.

On the days I feel like windows, it's best described as my ford focus day. I fire it up, nothing is particularly inspiring or making me smile, it works. There's the odd unresponsive app but I know it so well that nothing really phases me with it (nor excites me).

On my Apple days, I smile at the elegance and design of the apps (MS 365 strongly excluded). I enjoy the speed, quietness and power of the apple silicon and love things like end to end encryption and things that as a UI guy I appreciate... like the dialogues that say what will actually happen rather than a standard windows dialogue that often leaves me thinking argh what does that mean in this exact circumstance?

I truly do think Apple have played it exceptionally well with apple silicon. Windows on arm is still a disaster even though it has to be the way forward... and it's been years and years now! it's one of those times when I look at Apple and think yep, they've got a good few years head start with that.

Then, being the idiot I am, I notice things like office 365 being a pain on mac.. not apples fault but I use it continuously throughout the day so do I want to compromise on it? the menu bar across the top of my 49" monitor with the menus all on the top left of the massive screen and my mouse pointer bottom right. Honestly all the old research that said it didn't matter because you could whiz the mouse up top left easily just doesn't make sense on such a huge modern monitor.

....and so, I go and plug in the windows PC and well

10 use windows pc, set status happy
20 get bored and miss the nice m1 mac, set status unhappy
30 use mac, set status happy
40 get slightly annoyed by 365/something else, set status unhappy
50 goto 10

welcome to my flip flop life.

 

[LeeW]

I have a M1 MBP, great machine. has a lot to offer. My intent was to use this as my primary laptop, but things didn't work out. So now I have more of a hybrid set up. I have my Pc for gaming, and other tasks where windows is superior, and then I have my Mac for things it does better.

Snap. I have just accepted that I want the Frustrating Apple Ecosystem in my life but I need a PC. I decided to update from the M1 MBA to the M2 MBA because I really like what they did with it. Spent £1,949 on the machine with many grudges but I am not an internal Apple flipper. I will be happy with this machine for many years. Just the same as I will not be upgrading my iPhone 14 for many years or my iPad Pro.

Apple screwed up Royally from a profit angle on the M1/M2. It's too good on performance and battery. That won't change for a long time. Even after the M3, M4 or M5 these early machines are going to remain good performers.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Snap. I have just accepted that I want the Frustrating Apple Ecosystem in my life but I need a PC. I decided to update from the M1 MBA to the M2 MBA because I really like what they did with it. Spent £1,949 on the machine with many grudges but I am not an internal Apple flipper. I will be happy with this machine for many years. Just the same as I will not be upgrading my iPhone 14 for many years or my iPad Pro.

Apple screwed up Royally from a profit angle on the M1/M2. It's too good on performance and battery. That won't change for a long time. Even after the M3, M4 or M5 these early machines are going to remain good performers.

Completely agree. the M1 MacBook Air and M1 iPad Pro are so powerful, I will be able to use them for years. So overpowered.

 

[keithop]

Completely agree. the M1 MacBook Air and M1 iPad Pro are so powerful, I will be able to use them for years. So overpowered.

yeah agreed, incredible power.....

 

[LiE_]

I either want an updated 2023 iMac or M2 Mac Mini and studio display.

🙈

 

[maflynn]

M2 Mac Mini and studio display.

🙈

Here's my recommendation. Get the Mini (or Mac Studio), and then a 4k/5k non-apple display. Then build a small PC, and use a KVM and you now have the best of both worlds. You can use the Mac to your hearts content, but also have a PC to play games, and do tasks that the Mac is ill suited form.

I use a KVM, with three computers, work laptop, my desktop and my Mac.

 

[c0ppo]

I agree with @maflynn
I'm using all 3 OS, and I enjoy every one of them. Before that I've used to flip flop. A lot.
Now I'm content with what I have

 

[phillytim]

I used to could justify the expense of a Mac, when I could install Windows on it as a virtual machine and have access to Windows for some of my technical work.

Now - I'm really grinding to justify the expense of a Mac, without the value-add of Windows capability.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I used to could justify the expense of a Mac, when I could install Windows on it as a virtual machine and have access to Windows for some of my technical work.

Now - I'm really grinding to justify the expense of a Mac, without the value-add of Windows capability

It’s a fair criticism. It used to be so easy to justify that macbook when you could add Windows to it for what you need in that realm.

 

[phillytim]

It’s a fair criticism. It used to be so easy to justify that macbook when you could add Windows to it for what you need in that realm.

Not only that, but the expense also had further justification when we could upgrade the critical components (especially RAM, storage, battery) - now, all Macs are just disposable appliances with a manufacturer-limited lifespan - and they should be priced as such (they sure as hell don't get any trade-in value from Apple).

Perhaps it is not optimal, but I am still running on my 2011 MacBook Pro with macOS High Sierra - and that's a risk that I accept.

 

[maflynn]

It used to be so easy to justify that macbook

I gave up justifying it. I wanted one, and I got it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It has its uses, and I love it, but as I've said, my Razer offers more functionality for me.

 

[LeeW]

but the expense also had further justification when we could upgrade the critical components (especially RAM, storage, battery) - now, all Macs are just disposable appliances with a manufacturer-limited lifespan - and they should be priced as such (they sure as hell don't get any trade-in value from Apple).

To be fair it's how most Windows laptops are heading now also. There are certainly still plenty of options to get upgradeable parts but it comes at not only a financial cost but weight/thickness.

The reality is that the mass market wants good pricing, thin and light. You have fewer and fewer options to get all 3 with upgradeable parts.

 

[MBAir2010]

we might see 10,000 people switching to  soon!

 

[maflynn]

we might see 10,000 people switching to  soon!

why?

 

[MBAir2010]

why?

pink slips!

 

[LeeW]

we might see 10,000 people switching to  soon!

I think there is as much chance of the opposite happening the way the pricing is going. Times are tough across Apple's biggest markets.

Luxury purchases are the first to go, Apples lines are a luxury at the current price point more so now than ever. I see people in the market needing a new device questioning where a new MBP is justified or going to Windows.

Will Apple pick up new business? Yes. Will they lose business? Yes. Will it result in a net gain? Probably.

 

[MBAir2010]

I think there is as much chance of the opposite happening the way the pricing is going. Times are tough across Apple's biggest markets.

Luxury purchases are the first to go, Apples lines are a luxury at the current price point more so now than ever. I see people in the market needing a new device questioning where a new MBP is justified or going to Windows.

Will Apple pick up new business? Yes. Will they lose business? Yes. Will it result in a net gain? Probably.

I saw a graph yesterday about 2022 laptop sales globally
apple lost -2% of economics last year
while
Lenovo lost -22% of their economics last year.
other companies lost more economics big time like dunbass™ dell technologies.

I have no idea of the terms and pompous verbiage they use for projection sales (or want to waste my braincells)
but that chart stated how Apple is the only computer company not to suffer a big loss last year.

now I going to read the funny pages!

 

[LeeW]

I saw a graph

Yeah

 

[LiE_]

I'm now in a holding pattern with where I'm going. In the last few days I've been exploring some job prospects and if it takes off then I'll likely be on a corporate laptop for my job as they don't have BYOD policy. If that's the case then I'll need to rethink my setup. My personal usage is very lightweight, mostly doing admin for my wife's business that I help run. So spreadsheets, emails and docs. It will be interesting if it pans out.

For now I'm back on my Pixel 5 and Google. If I stay at my current place I may go with the M2 + Studio Display still as they have a very relaxed BYOD policy.

 

[maflynn]

pink slips!

So you're saying that the laid off people will go out and buy a 3,000+ dollar laptop?

Also I don't see laid off MSFT people suddenly loving Apple. These folks are highly skilled, most likely certified in many MS technologies, they'll not be switching to apple in droves imo.

 

[maflynn]

'm now in a holding pattern with where I'm going. In the last few days I've been exploring some job prospects and if it takes off then I'll likely be on a corporate laptop for my job as they don't have BYOD policy.

Yeah, too many variables to deal with. My company had a BYOD policy but during covid, they amended it, so that we use company laptops to connect to the network. I have my razer laptop with all of the software for database and server connectivity but I need to use the slower and less capable Dell laptop ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[LiE_]

Yeah, too many variables to deal with. My company had a BYOD policy but during covid, they amended it, so that we use company laptops to connect to the network. I have my razer laptop with all of the software for database and server connectivity but I need to use the slower and less capable Dell laptop ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hopefully I'll be able to negotiate a good laptop, even my 10th gen 16GB Lenovo gets bogged down with the work I do. It's the main reason I use my own hardware for work because I can't work with underpowered and slow tools.

 

[MBAir2010]

So you're saying that the laid off people will go out and buy a 3,000+ dollar laptop?

Also I don't see laid off MSFT people suddenly loving Apple. These folks are highly skilled, most likely certified in many MS technologies, they'll not be switching to apple in droves imo.

I only paid $999 for mine!
both in 2020 and 2022!
who knows, I owl die upset if I get laid off so a CEO get richer!
and
the comment was of a more humorous observation, than causing stir here.
Go Jags!

 

[maflynn]

Hopefully I'll be able to negotiate a good laptop, even my 10th gen 16GB Lenovo gets bogged down with the work I do. It's the main reason I use my own hardware for work because I can't work with underpowered and slow tools.

Most of what I do isn't really CPU bound, but oddly enough the GPU is what frustrates me. Its not like I'm playing games, but when I use my KVM, the work laptop switches from laptop display to my ultra wide. It takes a solid 30 seconds to switch over and re-arrange the icons and what not

I only paid $999 for mine!

No doubt, but i'm not sure many developers will opt for a MBA, and instead need something more powerful. Also as I mentioned, many of the technical people who work at MS, have varying levels of certification, and years of experience with windows. They're not about to throw that away and switch to something that they may not have experience, i.e., they're making money using PCs, not Macs.

So would you say the inverse is true? If Apple lays off people in 2023, and the jury is out as to whether they will or won't Would they switch from Macs to PCs?