Florida Plans to Join These U.S. States That Will Let You Add Your Driver's License to Your iPhone

[Dozer_Zaibatsu]

Hmm. The response seems uniformly positive? I find a distinct lack of skepticism that should probably accompany the digitization of our citizenship. This is a simple .api update away from a Social Credit Score.

No, not dystopia yet, no. At first, it's all just convenient. Not until you need your official digital ID to be updated and available to cash a check. Then to post on social media or twitter. You'll then need it to both spend money or access your bank account. All of which is similarly cross-checkable against your behavior.

Actual criminals will be required to carry an app with them. And check in to be allowed to spend money or get on a bus or see a doctor. Who could be against that?

Once that it is in place, why won't they just ramp this up to prevent crime by also preventing everyone from buying things they shouldn't? They will limit what you post and say on social media, in cooperation with the companies, of course, in the interest of suppressing hate speech and misinformation.

"People will come to love their oppression. To adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think". – Alduous Huxley.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I don't see much point in the digital ID if the respective state is still going to require a physical card when driving.

 

[rp100]

If they need a warrant to search your phone, why would they be interested in "tricking" you into handing over your phone? Everything they find would subject to suppression.

You don't hand your phone over to anyone in this scenario. It works like Apple pay does, or with a scannable QR code. You maintain physical control of your device at all times.



This is without a doubt the worst roadside Lionel Hutz lawyering I've ever seen or heard. First off, simply handing your device over noes not constitute consent. Second, consent can be revoked at ANY TIME without reprisal. So even if you did sign a consent to search anything (your vehicle, your phone, your home, etc) and as the cops were about to open the drawer that you had "XYZ CONTRABAND" in and you blurted out I REVOKE MY CONSENT NOW!!! They have to stop, and can't use the withdraw of your consent as probable cause when trying to get a warrant to proceed.

Locking your car after being asked to exit your vehicle has no implications on the legality of a search or any sort of consent, implied or expressed. If a cop sees something in plain sight in your vehicle, they can seize it. Locked car or not. If a cop has reason to believe your car has weapons in it that can harm him/her and you have possession of the keys, that is constructive possession of the vehicle contents. You can unlock it for a cursory examination for weapons, or you can sit in the back of a police car and watch them do it with the keys they fished out of your pocket. That's your choice, of course. When it comes to safety, the courts have almost universally sided with police, particularly on roadside encounters, pedestrian and traffic stops.

Most cops are decent people. They just want to make a paycheck and go home at night. There are a LOT of bad cops out there though, and when bad advice like this meets those bad cops is when things can get ugly quickly. Don't make like you know your rights when you don't. In some instances you seem assert rights you don't have, and in others you neglect to point out the rights you do have. So when you make it seem you know what you're talking about, you just make things bad for people you may be trying to help.

Your assertion that fighting your battles in court is excellent advice. I wholeheartedly agree. And pay the money for the good lawyer. Public Pretenders are crap.

I think we’re in agreement, mostly.

If you present your phone to a police officer, Riley v. California (Supreme Court ruling) ruled that law enforcement needs a search warrant. Agreed. But if the officer sees something come across the screen (picture of criminal activity, text messages implying criminal activity) he may no longer need your consent, especially when he is now possession of the phone (not sure if a court has ruled on this exact scenario). The officer could ignore it, ask about it, ask if you’re willing to unlock and show him the picture. He could confiscate the phone and get a warrant. Hard to say. Depends on the texts, pics, and attitude of the officer. If you’re an arrogant jerk or acting suspicious, it probably won’t go very smoothly.

I personally would think it comparable (not identical) to a police officer asking to enter your home to ask you questions. You allow him in and he sees weapons or drugs in plain sight, resulting in a complete search of your home.
You should’ve asked him to wait outside, and then stepped outside with him and shut the door.

I guess my point is that every traffic stop I’ve been in or heard of, the police officer always brought documents back to his car. I don’t see how, during a traffic stop, you can show/present your phone without it leaving your possession. Yes, the article was implying usage in airports, but if we’re all one day going to be required to provide electronic identification, there is a certain level of care involved when the device is not entirely in your control.

 

[liberte1776]

What are Illinois' plans? Besides trying to steal more money from its residents...

Let the out of touch state know that you want it:

Contact

The Illinois Secretary of State’s office provides a variety of contact forms to be used to contact the office.

www.ilsos.gov

 

[Powerguru]

New Jersey will be the 50th state to join this list.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Why?

My guess is because it’s new and in the event of a failure in the device scanning your phone, you’d want the hard copy as a CYA to avoid a driving without a license charge.

 

[Black Belt]

Embarrassing that California where Apple was founded is absent from the list

 

[tonyisit]

Still needing your physical license to drive kind of makes it pointless they need a way police can easily verify it is real.

no I you don't , that is whole point of this. It just depends if your state offers the option.

 

[usagora]

My guess is because it’s new and in the event of a failure in the device scanning your phone, you’d want the hard copy as a CYA to avoid a driving without a license charge.

But that's a possibility anywhere where a DL or ID was required, not just driving. But they specifically say it's a requirement (not simply a strong recommendation) to have the physical ID while operating a motor vehicle (specifically).

 

[tonyisit]

So is handing your phone over to a law enforcement officer going to end up being a bad idea?

They do this already with insurance cards

 

[tonyisit]

So police stop me, ask me for my license then I show my iPhone then what… they can have access to all my info in my phone?

They dont take the phone , this works the same way it does with your insurance card, you show it to them and that is it. They already have all of info when pull your plate anyway

 

[an-other]

I really want this to be a good idea. I'd love to avoid the wallet shuffle getting my documentation sorted to get through TSA.

I won't be taking advantage of it. My personal view, and it's ok if you disagree, is I don't want to put my credentials where the police or other governmental characters "in theory" can access the information without my express consent. The design of the software implies there are safeguards to prevent this from happening, and I firmly believe Apple is sincere in their desire to protect this information. At the same time, given enough time, people will be able to figure this out. The "iphone unlockers" are a great examples.

There is a large population of police officers that dedicate their life's work (and at times their life) for the public good. They have nothing but my unequivocal respect and admiration. There's also a population of police officers and even departments that regularly trample on citizen's rights in "their view" of the public good. This process often starts with the violation of the 4th amendment to gain your identity. Some would say getting an "ID" is like crack to a police officer.

It's hard to be critical of a broad and diverse organisation that has such stars and villians both. At times there can be a totality of events which force the Department of Justice to investigate entire departments. This has happened several places, with Arizona being the latest. A quick search for Mesa, Arizona police reveal (to me) consistently shocking and regular abuses of citizen's rights. This is not a one bad apple situation. It's top down and plotted. Want a quick measure of trust? Go to your local police station, stand on the public sidewalk, take out your phone, and record the public front door of the station for 30 minutes. See what happens... (All of this is legal in the US, however I'm expressly not providing any Legal guidance.)

The commentary about seeking justice in court is a bit romantic. The laws favour the police/government, and they have something called Qualified Immunity in 48 states. So, the people you trust can deliberately lie to you, misrepresent law, and or toss you in a holding cell at their whim. In broad terms everything I've written in the last sentence has been upheld either by the Supreme Court or other Courts. There's no accountability or repercussions if a police officer makes a mistake or does it over their contempt of you. Often times internal investigations are beyond laughable/insulting in their conclusions. The original George Floyd report cited "medical incident."

My purpose here isn't to move forward an agenda. It's a kindly suggestion you reflect upon the comfort you have with your digital information being taken without your permission. That may not be possible initially, however it's reasonable to assume anything desirable will be cracked. Not all people, including government agencies, work toward your best interest. They work toward their's.

I noted I won't use this technology. It's easy to pass on a note like this with a "there's just another <insert fringe group> paranoid tin foil hat wearing dude." I'll just say you don't appreciate the negative aspects of these things until it happens to you. Faith is an important. So is scepticism.

 

[chivkea]

Could we have more services to be done through the phone and cut more visits to the DMV?

 

[SantaFeNM]

They do this already with insurance cards

My insurance card has much less personal information on it than my phone.

 

[ZipZap]

I'm confused. Why do I need state permission add my license to the app?

 

[BuffaloTF]

But that's a possibility anywhere where a DL or ID was required, not just driving. But they specifically say it's a requirement (not simply a strong recommendation) to have the physical ID while operating a motor vehicle (specifically).

Well… it’s just my guess here, still trying to give some possibilities, but stating it’s a requirement may well be just strong wording to force that behavior and keep stops moving at a normal pace.

 

[Scoob Redux]

Embarrassing that California where Apple was founded is absent from the list

Hopefully it's by design. California tends to implement more consumer protections than other states, and this is going to need a lot.

 

[cbaca51]

what’s the point of this if you still need to carry your physical ID? Kinda pointless

 

[WRChris]

Another reason to hate living in indiana

 

[JimmyHook]

BAD IDEA FOLKS!!!

Never give your phone (locked or unlocked) over to a law enforcement agent. EVER. Do not unlock it. They need a warrant (and probable cause) to search your phone, but will suggest otherwise. Their job is to uphold the law (find people guilty), not prove people innocent. The electronic driver’s license is how law enforcement will trick people into handing over their phone. If you happen to unlock the phone before handing it over (intentionally or accidental face-unlock), you have just given your blessing to have the phone searched. This is the same reason for shutting & locking your car if you are asked to exit your vehicle.

Best practices for everyone: if you are stopped by an officer, make sure your phone is put into a semi-locked state (power+volume up, then hit cancel) so a passcode is required. If you aren’t planning on videoing or recording audio, power it off. All notifications should be obscured unless the phone is unlocked (somehow your buddies will send you inappropriate texts at an inopportune time). Be polite. Don’t argue. Don’t over share and create unwanted evidence. Remember that you can always fight it out in court - that’s why there are defense lawyers and a judge to hear both sides of the case.

You clearly didn’t read the article. At no point in the process do you hand your device to anyone

 

[Smooch]

I get the humor but how often do we leave the house now with a low battery, or let out battery get low when we’re out. That’s like leaving without pants on - you’re just asking for trouble.

I mean.. You're questioning how we survived the 80s?

 

[jmh600cbr]

Ontario Canada has announced digital ID by EOY. But will it be wallet supported?

 

[tito2020]

"License? I'm sorry officer, but my iPhone battery just died!"

Officer: go to your nearest Starbucks to charge your phone I’ll follow you

 

[jsalda]

How the heck Oklahoma is leading the way in this is beyond me, we had to get 3 years of extensions to make our DL/ID federally compliant.

 

[ohsnap]

New Jersey will be the 50th state to join this list.

LOL I said the exact same thing, I guess we're screwed.