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Hahaha!! He doesn't just call the iPP a consumption device, he says it's for "light consumption"! LOL, like it's a struggle for the thing to even stream Netflix.



Hyperbole, with no specifics.

Why question this person's opinion, I don't understand your motivation? Are you some sort of Apple fan who believes Apple can do nothing wrong? I happen to agree with their assessment, they gave a nice summary of these devices.

It's funny, the Surface Pro series it put down because they have a lack of basic apps in the Microsoft Store. Problem is, Apple has the opposite problem. They have a lack of serious apps for the iPad and since they are still taking a 20 percent cut of any profits, they aint gonna get no serious apps from nobody. In the mean time, since apps are BASIC, Microsoft Store's inventory of basic apps has been growing, even if its not anywhere near what Apple has in their store.

If you're a real Apple fan, you should stop defending them and begin to realize they are resting on their laurels and no longer offering new products that change the way we view technology. There's room for more innovation in the PC/Mobile market, but Apple just doesn't have a CEO that's visionary enough to take risks for the sake of the future. I can assure you, the amount of "great products" Tim has in the pipeline is rapidly shrinking.
 
Why question my opinion?

I don't question your opinion, I question your motivation. If you don't want to share it, that's fine. In the mean time its like your house is burning down and you aren't going to call the fire department. Maybe it's for the insurance money.
 
"So what"? You quoted someone and said his post is incoherent when it wasn't. Then I called you out on it and you started talking about a completely different post from a completely different person.

Looks like you're the one who can't keep up.

if your interested in clarification, reread the thread. I responded to sjleworthy and in that post characterized the initial post as lacking coherence. I think it is clear i am criticizing the OP, not sjleworthy's call for positve surface feedback. You objected to my characterization of OP and I defended my characterization. Then you wrote apropos of nothing "sjleworthy is not OP". Did i ever suggest or imply sjleworthy was the original poster? No. or that his--sjleworthy's-- comment lacked coherence? No. Its all in the thread, give it a look
 
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I don't question your opinion, I question your motivation. If you don't want to share it, that's fine.

My "motivation" is to help other people see how productive an iPad or iPhone can be, as I've seen in my own usage. There are many other positive posters here doing the same, and I've learned a lot from them.

Unfortunately there's a whole other group of insecure people here who's only "motivation" is to mock and belittle iPad and its fans. It doesn't fit them, so obviously it can't fit anyone else either - except babies and the elderly. These people like to use the phrase "real work" a lot.
 
My "motivation" is to help other people see how productive an iPad or iPhone can be, as I've seen in my own usage. There are many other positive posters here doing the same, and I've learned a lot from them.

Unfortunately there's a whole other group of insecure people here who's only "motivation" is to mock and belittle iPad and its fans. It doesn't fit them, so obviously it can't fit anyone else either - except babies and the elderly. These people like to use the phrase "real work" a lot.

I've done "real work" on Apple devices for 15 years, and helped people realize the benefits of Apple during that time. But why isn't Apple focusing on helping people be more productive with these IOS devices? There's a legitimate need for a file system, for instance. Why is Apple making people have to find "workarounds" to be productive on their iPad? If Apple made the iPad compatible with a mouse for doing things like highlighting text, and if they made the iPad capable of running on a large screen monitor, I'd give the device some serious consideration. They are solid devices.

Problem is, they've been solid devices for years now, but they have features they mostly support consumption. Look at how powerful these devices are today! They could be powerhouses for getting work done, but Apple is refusing to evolve them and I believe that's because Tim Cook doesn't have vision. He's too cautious. If you truly believe in using IOS for productivity (and I can totally understand why you'd think that) then you should be pissed that Apple hasn't done more the platform.

It's ashame! My iPad 4 would get 14 hours of battery life on a BAD DAY!
 
...There's a legitimate need for a file system, for instance. Why is Apple making people have to find "workarounds" to be productive on their iPad? If Apple made the iPad compatible with a mouse for doing things like highlighting text, and if they made the iPad capable of running on a large screen monitor, I'd give the device some serious consideration.

You're describing a Mac Mini. Literally.
 
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You're describing a Mac Mini. Literally.

So I can unplug a Mac Mini and use the Mac Mini's built in screen and portable battery on the go while sipping coffee and Starbucks? Maybe after I've snorted like 5 rounds of cocaine, right? Honestly, I'm not sure why you said that. Your reply to my post makes no sense. What are you talking about?
 
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if your interested in clarification, reread the thread. I responded to sjleworthy and in that post characterized the initial post as lacking coherence. I think it is clear i am criticizing the OP, not sjleworthy's call for positve surface feedback. You objected to my characterization of OP and I defended my characterization. Then you wrote apropos of nothing "sjleworthy is not OP". Did i ever suggest or imply sjleworthy was the original poster? No. or that his--sjleworthy's-- comment lacked coherence? No. Its all in the thread, give it a look
You said "most of the surface negativity is as incoherent as this post" after quoting someone who is not OP.

So no, it was not clear at all that you were referring to OP in your original post.
 
Hahaha!! He doesn't just call the iPP a consumption device, he says it's for "light consumption"! LOL, like it's a struggle for the thing to even stream Netflix.



Hyperbole, with no specifics.

What grade did I get?
[doublepost=1480926147][/doublepost]
I've done "real work" on Apple devices for 15 years, and helped people realize the benefits of Apple during that time. But why isn't Apple focusing on helping people be more productive with these IOS devices? There's a legitimate need for a file system, for instance. Why is Apple making people have to find "workarounds" to be productive on their iPad? If Apple made the iPad compatible with a mouse for doing things like highlighting text, and if they made the iPad capable of running on a large screen monitor, I'd give the device some serious consideration. They are solid devices.

Problem is, they've been solid devices for years now, but they have features they mostly support consumption. Look at how powerful these devices are today! They could be powerhouses for getting work done, but Apple is refusing to evolve them and I believe that's because Tim Cook doesn't have vision. He's too cautious. If you truly believe in using IOS for productivity (and I can totally understand why you'd think that) then you should be pissed that Apple hasn't done more the platform.

It's ashame! My iPad 4 would get 14 hours of battery life on a BAD DAY!

Agree wholeheartedly. Great hardware, now being held back by software.
 
If Apple made the iPad compatible with a mouse for doing things like highlighting text, and if they made the iPad capable of running on a large screen monitor, I'd give the device some serious consideration.

I seriously don't want Apple to do that. I want the iPad to remain a tablet. I refuse to use an external keyboard attached to my iPad Pro and I use a Bluetooth keyboard only when I need to do some serious typing on it. If I have to use a mouse and a keyboard every day then I'd rather use a laptop with desktop apps instead.

What Apple should do is:
  • Make a non-mandatory system-wide file manager available to all apps, exposing a local home folder and the cloud services. That's it, no system folders, no libraries, nothing else.
  • Allow apps to read and write files from/to anywhere this file system and provide standardized open and save dialogue windows available to all apps.
  • Any app should be still allowed to use the simplified file management (like it is now). If the user doesn't need file management features, keep it simple.
  • Allow apps to exchange information between them using a system-wide clipboard just like the one on macOS. I'm not a programmer so I can't explain this in technical terms but currently when I copy/paste objects from one app to another the results can be unpredictable. Just bring the clipboard from macOS together with all the types of data it supports (including PDF) and make it available to all apps.
  • Add drag and drop. They added split screen multitasking which is good. Now drag and drop is the obvious missing feature.
It's as simple as that. ;) Adding the above features will open new possibilities for app developers to create more complex apps.

Now I'm going to call Tim and send him this list. :D
 
Unfortunately there's a whole other group of insecure people here who's only "motivation" is to mock and belittle iPad and its fans. It doesn't fit them, so obviously it can't fit anyone else either - except babies and the elderly. These people like to use the phrase "real work" a lot.

And another issue is the people keep changing what "Real Work" means to change the parameters of the argument in their favor. There's no point in deliberating it any more past what you or other's have said: Real work depends upon the user's needs. The iPad is perfectly capable of "real work."

Below is not targeted at you, but at people who argue the iPad is incapable of work:
There are things the iPad can't do, yes. There are also things it can do which, but the experience may be better with another device. For instance, I can use Excel on my iPad, but I much prefer it with mouse and keyboard input on a 1440p display. Also, I do a significant amount of research. Having multiple Chrome windows with 5-15 tabs each, referencing 6-9 PDFs, and then Page/Word is a hearty load that often pushes my computer to use 11-13GB of RAM. While I could do this research on the iPad, it would be tedious and time consuming. I much prefer to use multiple displays and a traditional OS for multitasking. No one is making the argument that the iPad is a flawless workhorse capable of meeting everyone's needs, but it gets irritating that there are still so many people that dismiss the iPad as consumption only contrary to solid evidence provided by the opposing side.

But why isn't Apple focusing on helping people be more productive with these IOS devices? There's a legitimate need for a file system, for instance. Why is Apple making people have to find "workarounds" to be productive on their iPad? If Apple made the iPad compatible with a mouse for doing things like highlighting text, and if they made the iPad capable of running on a large screen monitor, I'd give the device some serious consideration.

Problem is, they've been solid devices for years now, but they have features they mostly support consumption. Look at how powerful these devices are today! They could be powerhouses for getting work done, but Apple is refusing to evolve them


Apple has focused on making the iPad more productive. iOS 9 was a massive update that dramatically changed the iPad's potential with real multitasking. iOS 10 was, admittedly, a disappointment for the iPad, but it has come a long way. Remember when you could only attach a photo to an email?

Again with the file system: there IS one, it just functions differently than it does on a traditional OS. The document picker IS the file system. Apps like Dropbox, Documents 5, or even iCloud Drive can host folders and subfolders. You can manage network files, cloud files, locals files, etc. What else are you missing from this file system?

While the thought of coming homing and hooking up the iPad to a large monitor via the smart connector is a nice idea, the execution is lacking. iOS is not optimized for mouse input: it would be clumsy and awkward. iOS also can't handle multiple windows. It isn't as simply as "convert to macOS" because macOS is not yet compatible with ARM and would require more power than the A9X can provide to do demanding tasks. Apple could do this, but that is not their current vision. It doesn't inhibit the iPad's current productive possibilities and advantages.
 
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...Apple has focused on making the iPad more productive.....Apple could do this, but that is not their current vision. It doesn't inhibit the iPad's current productive possibilities and advantages.

Apple's vision has ALWAYS been to keep tablet and laptop hardware/ software capabilities separate and any competition between it's platforms to a minimum. Touchbar vs Touchscreen; no contest. iOS vs OS; no contest. I personally prefer MS's current vision of at least trying to COMBINE tablet and laptop productive possibilities and advantages.
 
They also combine the disadvantages of each, and at least from a tablet point of view they don't have the app store to back it up that Apple does.
Again, just my opinion :); if Apple is relying on it's app store (or Touchbar :D) to retain it's market share it will lose in both the tablet and laptop market.
 
I tried a Surface for a year. It was just too unreliable...starting up on it's own in my bag...random windows crashes and failures in the keyboard and pen requiring restarts or disconnects/reconnects. Whether on paper it has better specs or more features doesn't matter when it simply doesn't work reliably. I traded the surface in and I am now using an Pad Pro with Pencil and though it "does less" - what it claims to do, it does it well and reliably. I've not had a failure yet for it to work as expected since I bought it. I don't think it's inherently that Microsoft doesn't understand reliability and Apple does except in overall product planning. I think it's just near impossible with a product such as a Surface with so many failure points between the detachable keyboard/mouse and an operating system and hardware not optimized for more specific uses as Apple is able to do because they own the whole 'widget', including the silicon, makes it just near impossible to "get right."
 
They also combine the disadvantages of each, and at least from a tablet point of view they don't have the app store to back it up that Apple does.
Question: what functionality is a productivity oriented user missing out on by choosing a surface and not having access to ios apps. I accept many "consumption" users value "fun" apps and games, but what are productivity apps are there?

You might argue that productivity user value "fun" apps and games. I'd readily accept arguements for procreate and garage band. I'll accept that some people love their evernote. There are many fine synths on ios, but i feel doing music on an ipad is much less viable than working on a pc. Anyone really want to do serious audio or video editing with their fingers?

So, what is the real app advantage? When I see ios app videos on youtube I see a lot of fluff.
 
For now, for me, I feel the best solution is a macbook pro together with an 12.9 iPad pro. As a teacher, I use the iPad pro every day for lecturing, hooking it up to an overhead and using it as a virtual whiteboard, sending students pdfs of the notes. I use the macbook pro for everything else, including keeping records, writing exams, and such.

I've been attracted to the idea of a two in one device of some sort, such as the surface book. It is sometimes annoying to import/export files between the macbook and the iPad. I tried a Lenovo yoga device about a year ago, but when I switched to the iPad pro I found the pencil worked much better for me; my students commented my handwriting looked better. I've tried the surface book in the store, but I didn't like it either; the screen seemed to flex when I wrote on it, and I occasionally got little blotches. Perhaps I'll buy one to try it out; the samples on display may be worn down due to extensive use.

But for now, while I think Microsoft has the right idea, and I like the idea of a single device that can do both tasks, the quality of the Apple devices over-rides this advantage. For now.
 
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But for now, while I think Microsoft has the right idea, and I like the idea of a single device that can do both tasks, the quality of the Apple devices over-rides this advantage. For now.
Surprise close! I am firmly in the two device camp, although I go back and forth on whether the best complimentary device is a surface or an ipp. You may have stumbled onto the best solution, especially since your laptop is apple and you can live in one ecosystem.
 
Surprise close! I am firmly in the two device camp, although I go back and forth on whether the best complimentary device is a surface or an ipp. You may have stumbled onto the best solution, especially since your laptop is apple and you can live in one ecosystem.

I didn't get the macbook for the ecosystem, as much as I really like the trackpad. The device feels like an extension of myself when I sit it in my lap and scroll through a document. I've tried windows laptops, but using the trackpad to scroll felt like it stuttered and was frustrating. It's been over a year since I last tried one though, so perhaps they've improved.

If I found a windows two in one device whose trackpad was as good as my macbook and whose pen was as good as my iPad pro's, I'd take it. But, there are always trade offs. You pays your money, and you takes your choice.

P.S. I could put up with a less than top-notch trackpad in return for a two in one device. But the pen is crucial; I need my handwriting to look nice when lecturing for a class.
 
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Question: what functionality is a productivity oriented user missing out on by choosing a surface and not having access to ios apps. I accept many "consumption" users value "fun" apps and games, but what are productivity apps are there?

There's actually an entire series of free podcasts done by the guys from Macstories, dedicated to answering that very question. I highly recommend it.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/canvas/id1073124209?mt=2
 
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There's actually an entire series of free podcasts done by the guys from Macstories, dedicated to answering that very question. I highly recommend it.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/canvas/id1073124209?mt=2
When asked a direct question I too always respond with a link to 30 hrs of programming that may
or may not be directly relevant. weak sauce. I have skimmed through the Canvas backlog and it seems to be about duplicating pc workflows on the ipad.

but that wasn't my question. i am questioning your assertion that surface users are deprived due to lack of apps. i'll put it out there again, what functionality is a productivity oriented user missing out on by choosing a surface and not having access to ios apps. I accept many "consumption" users value "fun" apps and games--and thats somewhat valid--but what are productivity apps are there?
 
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but that wasn't my question. i am questioning your assertion that surface users are deprived due to lack of apps. i'll put it out there again, what functionality is a productivity oriented user missing out on by choosing a surface and not having access to ios apps. I accept many "consumption" users value "fun" apps and games--and thats somewhat valid--but what are productivity apps are there?

For me it's the entire iPad system that trumps the Surface for use as a digital paper replacement. I've tried with the Surface for years, but everything is just kind of clunky, and I feel like I'm working around the UI and hardware rather than it working for me. My SP3 has become a laptop for me, which is fine. It's a good, lightweight laptop with a good keyboard and trackpad (on the latest version), a good screen, and (usually) reasonable battery life. But I virtually never use it as a tablet. My iPad Pro now fills that role and I do a ton of markup, note taking, reviewing of documents, etc. all from there. The interface largely just gets out of the way for me and I focus on just doing the work.

On the Surface, outside of OneNote, which is a great program in most ways, there are very few other choices of good note taking and annotation programs that are fully pen compatible. I have been using OneNote for a decade, but with the Surface Pen I just find that handwriting and drawing just isn't that accurate. There is always lag and an offset. The screen constantly pans and zooms as I use it. It's still a place I aggregate a lot of information in notebooks, but my note taking is generally done on the iPad (sometimes in OneNote).
 
I played with the Studio at a local retailer and I actually liked the experience a lot, though I don't think Microsoft has optimised their UI enough for touch. What bothers me more however is the complaints I read about the issues that plague the line: poor battery life, random shut downs, fan noise, lack of quality touch apps etc.

So while I like the idea of one device to rule them all, for me at least I still prefer two devices that each do their respective jobs as best as they can without compromise. When I want file systems, bash, python, multiple windows and desktop-class software I use my MacBook Air and macOS. When I want to read, browse, watch media, or be productive with a focused, single app, I use my iPad mini.

Scrivener is great example of how I divide my workflow. The iOS app lends itself fantastically to a focused writing session either in the house or on the go. The macOS version though is better for organisation and editing.

I see no problem with this but equally I see no problem with a Surface Pro or a pure Macbook user doing their thing either.

Arguing over the best way to push pixels is not the best use of my time.
 
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