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Ford,GM,Chrysler
- Thread starter Dont Hurt Me
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Yes, I would like to agree with jazzmfk. The Aztek is much much uglier than anything I can think of.
But Shard is right. Aesthetics are personal (although who on earth would call a 1993 Acura Integra, the last car I owned, ugly? Boring I could see, but ugly?). On qualitative measures American cars do well with many customers. It's the quantitative measures that are a little disturbing, especially reliability measures. But they have improved a great deal since the 1980s.
I think a lot of the problem for American cars was that there position was simply untenible. The US auto industry simply couldn't dominate forever with so many competitors. It's survived well for a long time and will continue to survive, but in ever-changing ways. China's entrance into the US and other automotive markets will change the field yet another time.
But Shard is right. Aesthetics are personal (although who on earth would call a 1993 Acura Integra, the last car I owned, ugly? Boring I could see, but ugly?). On qualitative measures American cars do well with many customers. It's the quantitative measures that are a little disturbing, especially reliability measures. But they have improved a great deal since the 1980s.
I think a lot of the problem for American cars was that there position was simply untenible. The US auto industry simply couldn't dominate forever with so many competitors. It's survived well for a long time and will continue to survive, but in ever-changing ways. China's entrance into the US and other automotive markets will change the field yet another time.
miloblithe said:
Well said. The American car manufacturers will have to learn how to adapt, and even quicker than before, in the upcoming years. As I said earlier in the thread, I predict Toyota will dethrone GM in 2006 as the world's leading auto maker.
I guess I'm kind of torn about the US auto industry though. I want it to do well, especially as almost every single one of my wife's father's relatives works or worked the line either at GM, Ford, or Delphi, but on the other hand if the whole industry goes under, perhaps I won't be _required_ to buy an American car next time I buy one.
That'd be nice.
That'd be nice.
cubist said:
Actually this information is not true. The only Focus model that ever came from Mexico was the ZX3 model. All of the 4 door and wagon models were built at the Wayne Assembly Plant in Michigan. Since last year, every Focus is now built in Michigan. The Hermosillo Assembly and Stamping plant now builds Fusions. Ford put billions into rebuilding and enlarging this plant since. The plant is much more automated now and initial quality of the CD3 (Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr) seem to be good.
There's a reason that the German carmakers are doing so well and part of that is there investment in the long term. Ok, so Daimler got a little side tracked by buying Chrysler but... The Quandt family own a majority stake of BMW, Porsche is privately owned, a substantial portion of VW is owned by the state in which it is located, etc. The same can be said for the Japanese, to a certain extent.
American car makers are going under because they are forced by Wall Street to think only about short term profits. New and innovative products get cut off in midstream due to short term financial issues. Designers and engineers are forced to take the safe route as opposed to truly thinking outside of the box. What truly innovative product has come out of Detroit in the last few years? In terms of design, I would have to say that Daimler Chrysler has done the best, but there's little else that is in any way innovative.
The short term profit motive is also why Detroit has such high retiree costs. Lay 'em off when things get a little rough and then hire some new ones when things pick up. They've only themselves to blame, the same goes for the airline industry.
Haven't the sales of SUVs plummeted in the last few months? Detroit is going to lose its shirt if gas prices go up yet again which is inevitable given the increasing demand from China and India. Not to mention the problems in the middle east.
American car makers are going under because they are forced by Wall Street to think only about short term profits. New and innovative products get cut off in midstream due to short term financial issues. Designers and engineers are forced to take the safe route as opposed to truly thinking outside of the box. What truly innovative product has come out of Detroit in the last few years? In terms of design, I would have to say that Daimler Chrysler has done the best, but there's little else that is in any way innovative.
The short term profit motive is also why Detroit has such high retiree costs. Lay 'em off when things get a little rough and then hire some new ones when things pick up. They've only themselves to blame, the same goes for the airline industry.
Haven't the sales of SUVs plummeted in the last few months? Detroit is going to lose its shirt if gas prices go up yet again which is inevitable given the increasing demand from China and India. Not to mention the problems in the middle east.
Abercrombieboy said:
Only half right. A quick googling shows that various Focuses between 2000 and 2004 were built in Mexico.
Volkswagon, I will agree with in having lost quality in the last few years, and these are built in Mexico also. I tend to blame it on the engineering though, not the builders.
Ugg said:
Not sure -- in my area, there's still a good number of full-size trucks and SUVs with new car tags on them.
I'm with ya on the demand from China and India. Just wait until those economies really start rolling in the next 5-10 years. Increased demand from those countries in already beginning to radically affect long-term oil prices for the rest of the world.
Of course, if us silly Americans quit shopping at junk stores like Walmart and buying all kinds of foreign made crap we really don't need, that might help....
I'm wondering what GM was thinking when they let the Aztek into production. Although, it's sibling Rendezvous (which my parents bought a little over a year agoDont Hurt Me said:
) has less outward visibility. I hate driving it, especially in the wind, with a roof rack on it.My father readily admits it's an ugly car, but it's the only car of ours (including my 94 Corsica (DIE!) and my mother's 04 LeSabre (Old Person Boat)) that has independent rear suspension (I think it's aluminum too) and rear disc brakes.
This is a good article to read for anyone looking for a new vehicle. I do understand many people are biased against the US automakers for one reason for another, but if you are a person with an open mind and are looking for the best deal...this is a good article.
from cnn.com "Fact Check: Are American Cars Really That Bad?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/01/23/american_cars/index.html
from cnn.com "Fact Check: Are American Cars Really That Bad?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/01/23/american_cars/index.html
Interesting article, with one MAJOR flaw. It's a three-year test. Surely this isn't a test of reliability? Three years is just a bit before the typical American engine does indeed start to exhibit a lot of various problems (65+k miles). If this were a five, six, even ten year test, I think the results would be dramatically different. In fact, the longer the test, the larger the discrepency would probably be between japanese and american cars.
decksnap said:
I was just trying to show some new information that American vehicles have improved dramatically over the past few years when it comes to quality and reliability.
You have already made the point several times over that all American cars are junk and you would never buy one. That is cool with me, I am just showing this information because there might be a few people out there who like the idea of getting a quality vehicle and saving money on the purchase price. I have no doubt even if there was a longer term study that showed an American car was as reliable as a Japanese model, you would still be biased against American vehicles.
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CompUser
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I think Chysler is doing horribly.
They are loosing the minivan market, they haven't changed there design too much since 199x.
Chysler 300m- fake rolls royce and very ugly
Dodge Magnum- No need to explain
Jeep Liberty- ehh
Jeep Commander- who is going to buy that, I have not see 1
Jeep Grand Cherokee 2005- They're marking them down dramatically so people will buy them
And now Jeep is going to have Car based SUVs. Hah, so much for being a jeep
They are loosing the minivan market, they haven't changed there design too much since 199x.
Chysler 300m- fake rolls royce and very ugly
Dodge Magnum- No need to explain
Jeep Liberty- ehh
Jeep Commander- who is going to buy that, I have not see 1
Jeep Grand Cherokee 2005- They're marking them down dramatically so people will buy them
And now Jeep is going to have Car based SUVs. Hah, so much for being a jeep
CompUser said:
and here it is....the new 2007 Jeep Compass
Only one word can describe this vehicle U-G-L-Y! I can't quite figure out what is wrong with the design, but somehow the whole overall effect just doesn't work. I wonder if it is going to be "Trail Rated" like all Jeeps are supposed to be.
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CompUser
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~Shard~ said:Yikes, that does look pretty bad...
I agree 100000000000%. What were they thinking?
The front reminds me of the old style hundai tiberons and the rear window of a murano. When I see it, the first word that comes to mind is fugly, the second is eggplant.
I think the biggest problems with are:
- Its car based (not that they are bad, but this is a jeep)
- The front bumper angling down underneath the headlamps
- smoothly curved out rear 1/4 panel
- Headlights are too small and not located in the right place
- The grill is the same color as the rest of the car, so the front of the car looks pretty bare.
- The fact that I can not tell if it has 2 or 4 doors.
CompUser said:
Chysler is hardly an american company anymore. They have even told the press that they arent part of the Big 3.
The compass is crap though.
danny_w said:
huh ? looks like your mercedes in the US look quite different then
personally i think it looks like a jeep at least from the front
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CompUser
Guest
Well I could say that ford is almost sweedish, taking a bunch of stuff from volvo. The Freestyle and 500 are based on the S80.
Also, now that they have that head german engineer, everything is looking more European.
Unfortunatly, should be acting more like the Japanese auto makers.
I don't see how the Compass looks like a mercedes. To me it looks like a cheap fugly car.
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As my cousin said, "Chyslers and Dodges are having really big discounts, but who would want to buy one?"
Also, now that they have that head german engineer, everything is looking more European.
Unfortunatly, should be acting more like the Japanese auto makers.
I don't see how the Compass looks like a mercedes. To me it looks like a cheap fugly car.
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As my cousin said, "Chyslers and Dodges are having really big discounts, but who would want to buy one?"
CompUser said:
I'd say 4 doors. The rear handle is vertical near the window, and there is a visible seam running vertically right where you'd expect it for a rear roor. While I can't say much positive about the styling, the cleaner read bc of this design isn't too bad...
ibilly said:
Yeah this is a 4 door. It has the Nissan Pathfinder thing going on with the rear door handles. I guess it is supposed to trick you into thinking it is a 2 door.