Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Former Apple Employee Thinks Touch Bar Shouldn't Be Forced on Users Who Want Highest-End MacBook Pro
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
i agree one hundred percent. if the touchbar was no additional cost, sure.
but the touchbar models are very expensive compared to previous years, and macbooks were already pretty expensive.
but the touchbar models are very expensive compared to previous years, and macbooks were already pretty expensive.
Well first off - that computer doesn't exist yet and it's not exactly portable.
I've never met a single person that never changed their volume, brightness, or slept or turned off their Mac.
There are lots of design decisions Apple have forced on high-end users - lack of matte screen option, the removal of the Ethernet port and the 16GB RAM limitation to name a few. If Apple continued to make laptops with the 2011 15" MacBook Pro form factor (with better cooling), I'd keep buying them. They had a better keyboard and the matte screen was a joy to use. As things stand Pro users get a fat MacBook Air instead with hardly any ports.
I highly doubt Apple will backpedal on the TouchBar. They rarely backpedal at all.
The TB is merely a compromise, because Apple doesn't have their desktop OS customized for touch, so a touchscreen Mac will NEVER happen, however useful it may be.
This is why Apple should build iOS-based laptops and 2-in-ones, and leave the Mac laptop without the dumb TB and set them up to be upgradeable again (Storage & RAM).
This is a pipe dream too though, I'm sure it won't happen either. Everything Apple makes is or will be an appliance, nothing more.
The TB is merely a compromise, because Apple doesn't have their desktop OS customized for touch, so a touchscreen Mac will NEVER happen, however useful it may be.
This is why Apple should build iOS-based laptops and 2-in-ones, and leave the Mac laptop without the dumb TB and set them up to be upgradeable again (Storage & RAM).
This is a pipe dream too though, I'm sure it won't happen either. Everything Apple makes is or will be an appliance, nothing more.
Silly. Of course these customers will then use the new buttons for these functions.
+1 for acknowledging there's two issues here: some people need the function keys, even if they also love the touch bar.Apple created a false choice here.
All because they didn't want to admit they were wrong in refusing to augment the Mac with a touchscreen, while acknowledging context-sensitive touch surfaces are powerful and useful user experiences.
So they ended up with a half-assed touchscreen/function keypad instead.
That's quite a small number of users who never use a single function key, or the shift key, or the command key, or the option key, or the control key, or the ESC key, or the play/pause key, or the mute key,…
Are you sure about that <0.001%?
In Logic and Spotify its excellent, especially the controls in the former.
Needs better configurable options though. I'd like to create my own custom shortcuts for any given application.
Needs better configurable options though. I'd like to create my own custom shortcuts for any given application.
I'm also in the boat where I want a higher end MacBook with more ports, but I don't want the touch bar. For me a few things stick out. First, a year after its release, Mac faithful are still split if the Touch Bar was worth the money (many or possibly most still prefer or would be fine with the function keys). Second, the touch bar just doesn't seem necessary, doesn't seem to solve a big problem or bring revolutionary change as touted by Apple (i.e. unlike Touch ID or even 3D Touch). Lastly, there is a saying, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." This was supposed to be the MacBooks killer feature, but which other Windows laptop manufacturer is trying to quickly emulate it? As far as I can tell, none, which to me says a lot. Kinda like if BMW introduced a "killer feature", charged extra for it, created confusion in the BMW enthusiast community, and not a single other car manufacturer tried to emulate it or even bother with it. Again, maybe more than anything, this fact tells the story.
Honestly for me the touch bar is a give or leave. Don't really think it has value but not the worst thing to have. My problem is my 15" pro retina will most likely be the last mac I buy as the one feature I always loved about macbooks was the magnetic power supply connector. When they took that away on these recent macbooks I just do not like the idea of going back to a plug that could potentially pull your laptop off the surface if the power supply cord got pulled.
I would rather have touch bar and magnetic plug than no touch bar and no magnetic plug.
I would rather have touch bar and magnetic plug than no touch bar and no magnetic plug.
apple ex employee says he's fed up cleaning the toilets out so got sacked and now on a mission
NOW somebody else is thinking! This is exactly what I was surmising when this model was launched. Encryption locked, rackable with any internet connection, and parts rendered useless without the correct AppleID entered to unlock. Fully preventing theft at the very least.
[doublepost=1504936707][/doublepost]
It's kinda funny just how similar BlackBerry users where kicking and screaming at the iPhone with no physical keyboard.
I believe you guys have hit the nail on the changes of Use cases that Apple tried to highlight (and poorly did using 3470 Terminal session use of F1-12 keys).
Apple, like many users in both Windows, macOS, through various use of applications or the core system barely use the keyboard shortcuts along with the function keys as much as the users of both platforms some 2 generations ago. That's my personal observation worki across many industries and companies in IT from a support structure. Menu's, trackpads or mouse clicks are seemingly more than sufficient to get common and medium complex actions done on a day to day basis.
I'm not sure just how complex or how comparable Apple Numbers is vs Microsoft's Excel (plugins aside/inclusive) where function keys and keyboard shortcuts are available bs used.
The same basic principle in TouchBar applies as the iPhone software keyboard: only show us functions that are relatively required or "functional" for a given task in a given application
while some functions are universally used and required at any given time such as brightness, volume/mute, Play/Pause/FFWD/REWND.
Apple has plenty of room to put and Touchbar AND the function keys in a row above, and keep everybody happy.
They could also reduce the size of the regular touchpad. Its too big at the moment and a pain to use.
[doublepost=1505217020][/doublepost]
I was gonna say I think Apple will let you pay Extra to replace the Touchbar with regular Function keys as a joke, but then thought, this may be more likely
[doublepost=1505218021][/doublepost]The same basic principle in TouchBar applies as the iPhone software keyboard: only show us functions that are relatively required or "functional" for a given task in a given application
while some functions are universally used and required at any given time such as brightness, volume/mute, Play/Pause/FFWD/REWND.[/QUOTE]They could have added the physical Function Keys ABOVE the Touchbar, and have both, keeping everybody happy.
Also, if the TB is so good, why dont they replicate it on-screen so it is clickable with the mouse, that way even older MBP and iMacs get to use the feature.
My Two Cents.
Some have commented that the touch bar makes things to "complicated," really? Maybe the touch bar is just too "high tech" for some people. And, if it is too "high tech" they needn't get a maxed out MB Pro! Maybe get an Air for under $1K. I just got my new MB Pro about three weeks ago and ordered it online so I could get the RAM and HDD that I wanted. Apple makes it pretty easy to pick and choose what you want. I really didn't care either way about the touch bar, but figured I'd get it and see if I liked it. I do and really didn't expect to. It has more functions than I currently use because I am still not used to looking at it unless I want to do something like mess with the volume and brightness; however, it does offer extras like word prediction and easy navigation through web pages that I am slowly beginning to use. How anyone finds swiping the brightness and volume bar up and down on the touch bar more difficult than a function key is beyond me! I guess the iPhone must really throw them for a loop! It is actually much easier and quicker to do. The bar bringing up app specific commands also saves time. Using it to scroll through images can also be a true time saver. Just aesthetically, it looks better than the function keys. The price isn't going to change much without it. It does offer features that the function keys don't, so stop whining, consider it a bonus. Use it as much or as little as you want. Or, if you need to take baby steps in the scary world of touch bars that may or may not stick around, order one without it. You can STILL get a 13" newer model without it or a 15" older model without it. But, again, if you can't navigate Apple's website and see that, you really DON'T need a 15" maxed out MB Pro - the touch bar is the least of the things you won't be using on that machine.
It would depend upon who the former employee was and in what capacity, as well as in overall computer experience. This guy has a bit:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuqui
If your Apple experience lies in turning down an Apple job offer, then no, that shouldn't give you an elevated status for complaint about Apple products. If you have considerable experience as a user of Apple products under review, then yes, that would rate some "brownie points". Your refusal of an Apple job offer might lend you a bit of authority on the review process which led to the offer, and why you did not accept the position offered.
[doublepost=1507034466][/doublepost]
This reminds me of the arguments back and forth over inclusion of the phone jack on iPhones. People satisfied with bluetooth and/or dongles didn't mind its being gone. People who wanted to use high quality wired headphones / speakers with a dedicated jack minded quite a bit. The contention is that Apple decided in favor of one group over the other, without offering options. That would appear to be the issue here - it would be nice if the top end MBP had options with/without the touch bar.
[doublepost=1507036041][/doublepost]
I think that the touch bar was sort of a compromise gesture to compete with PCs with full touch screen capabilities. I tend to think Apple will eventually go to a full touch screen with perhaps extra features over PC offerings. I personally don't find touch screens useful on laptops, nor do I find physical keyboards to be much use on phones or tablets, but as long as both touch screens and full keyboard functionality are offered in one package, so be it.
I agree with nsimpson94, it is naive to expect a model without a Touch Bar to cost substantially less. If anything, the feature was put there in order to justify the price that would be as high anyway. BTW, I am not the biggest fan of Touch Bar. I like touch screens, but for me Touch Bar isn't nearly enough. I am waiting (hoping against hope?) for a full-touch-screen MacBook, preferably pressure-sensitive.
I'm just finding out that the fast-foward, pause controls don't seem to do anything useful, meaning they don't work for YouTube, Amazon Streaming, or Netflix. What they do is launch iTunes (with it's ever needy pestering for the iCloud password) then starts playing something I didn't want to play....
In a way this is good news because now I can delete these leaving more blank space on the Touch Bar so there are fewer things to bump with my pinky when I'm entering numbers. (To date I've removed: Siri, all the mission control type buttons that I've never used on purpose.)
For me the Touch Bar is a total bust. No surprise. Where're the Killer Apps for it? It just replaced the F-buttons I didn't have much use for and replaced them with battery sucking hair-triggers for stuff I don't want. I think this makes the Touch Bar the Microsoft Word frantic paperclip pest of the 2010s....
I do like the fingerprint password.
In a way this is good news because now I can delete these leaving more blank space on the Touch Bar so there are fewer things to bump with my pinky when I'm entering numbers. (To date I've removed: Siri, all the mission control type buttons that I've never used on purpose.)
For me the Touch Bar is a total bust. No surprise. Where're the Killer Apps for it? It just replaced the F-buttons I didn't have much use for and replaced them with battery sucking hair-triggers for stuff I don't want. I think this makes the Touch Bar the Microsoft Word frantic paperclip pest of the 2010s....
I do like the fingerprint password.
Want to trade?
Unfortunately my 2011 MBP was a bit too long in the tooth. Overheating... (Except now that I religiously keep in on a fan base, or an open wooden frame it's working okay]. I deleted the fast forward, play fast rewind controls today, leaving screen brightness, keyboard brightness and sound controls. Escape is still in the corner.
Unless I've forgotten to turn something on, there isn't a single app including Mail, Lightroom, Chrome (I don't use Safari), Filemaker, Illustrator, Open Office.... where Touch Pad even changes, much less do anything useful. I could care less about Emojis, It could've been a winner but it's almost a year old and all it's been is a nuisance.
Unfortunately my 2011 MBP was a bit too long in the tooth. Overheating... (Except now that I religiously keep in on a fan base, or an open wooden frame it's working okay]. I deleted the fast forward, play fast rewind controls today, leaving screen brightness, keyboard brightness and sound controls. Escape is still in the corner.
Unless I've forgotten to turn something on, there isn't a single app including Mail, Lightroom, Chrome (I don't use Safari), Filemaker, Illustrator, Open Office.... where Touch Pad even changes, much less do anything useful. I could care less about Emojis, It could've been a winner but it's almost a year old and all it's been is a nuisance.
I thought the same thing until I discovered BetterTouchTool. Now I can create my own strips, even for apps without Touch Bar support.
I can't see myself living without it now.