Former Shake Product Designer: Apple Doesn't Care About Pro Market

[slrandall]

If you want to call it a 1.0 release then CHANGE THE NAME. Do not call it a massive upgrade to FCP 7.

It kept the name to the consumers of this product it means it is an upgrade. Using your argument is the standard Apple appoligist argument.

Simple truth to the matter is Apple is done with the pro market. This is just another nail in the coffin that already has a ton of nails in it.
Lets see the list so far to back Apple is leaving the pro market.

1. Killing Xserver with nothing to replace it.
2. Logic has lagged behind.
3. FCP 7 was lagging behind the rest of the industry
4. Dropping Fireware.
5. Mac Pro not being updated and the updates they do get are pretty weak at best.
6. FCPX lacking key pro features.
7. This guy releasing what he saw going on.

Come on that was added to already a pretty long and growing list and I know I missed some items. Apple is done with the pro market. Apple has burned those bridges of the people that kept the company alive during the lean times.

Really? Apple has absolutely no server option now? Hmm ... And FireWire is not gone!! Goodness, do you people even have Macs? And 7. isn't really a reason ...

For goodness' sake, one incident [and apparently a ton of other contrived examples] does not mean anything! Can we please stop saying that Apple no longer cares about high-end professionals? It's simply not true.

 

[Reach]

I always thought that a Pro was someone that got paid for what they do. I've made my living and supported my family editing video since 1999. I've never used XML, multicam, and realize I can finish my edits in FCP 7 and start new ones in FCPX.

Are there "pros" that are more capable than me. I'm sure there are. Do people need what FCPX doesn't offer. I'm sure there are - but I'm not one of them. Here's to the future of FCPX and to all the money I'm going to make with it.

This is the truth, and my situation exactly (apart from print/web being a bigger part of my work than editing - still worked with and enjoyed FCP for over 10 years.).

 

[SkyStudios]

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A couple of years ago macs were used only by pros and ethusiats. Now Apple doesn't care anymore? Delivering the software that people make their Hollywood movies with , is certainly not bad marketing for Apple.

you can say that again brotha, apple is not a computer company any more remember, they switched to the communications devices (ipads, iphones) while still providing computers, this means they dont plan on investing in computers and pro users, its very clear that they have been and will be focused on a world wide global market

logic pro has been updated maybe 2 times in the last ten years, from v6, to 7 and 8.

 

[LethalWolfe]

For goodness' sake, one incident [and apparently a ton of other contrived examples] does not mean anything! Can we please stop saying that Apple no longer cares about high-end professionals? It's simply not true.

I prefer the term "not high on the priority list" to "no longer cares." DVD SP, Sound Track Pro, Color, Final Cut Server and Cinema Tools all got axed in the past few days and no, Apple does not offer any server grade hardware anymore (adding the name "server" to existing towers and mac mini's does not count).


Lethal

 

[wulf]

Are the pro's worrying for the right reasons?

- the pro's are right, Apple doesn't care about them. Not because of the missing pro essentials in X, but because they pulled FCP 7 (studio).

- Apple is right, the pro market is not an interesting market anymore. Apple, as a company, is not a niche player. They're working on a corporate signature that prevents future disappoint of their main target group. They choose their products very carefully.

- The pro's are right, because at some point Apple did care about pro's and they didn't provide any clue to their current path. Let's pretend "Pro" means a user who invested a sum of money in a platform and decides he and his customers rely on it's features to make a living. This platform is not available anymore. Apple does however pretend it is and should / could have known this would lead to bad reviews. Their marketing is badly managed in this case.

- Apple is right, this software has features which are great. Users will make money by using X. Actually the pro's should worry for a different reason. FCP 7 was developed as a tool to produce content for TV (film) with small user base in mind. X provides a tool to develop for the web, for a new generation of pro editors. I think, if you redefine your thoughts about "pro", and basically agree on the fact that a pro makes money using the tool, than you must agree X will provide us with a new breed of pro editors. There will be millions of pro editors, instead of 10.000. It's just a matter of definition. Eventually there will be a small base of high skilled editors, they will have other tools available.

So the real question for the pro is, am I skilled enough? Or should I focus on the new direction Apple just pointed? Apple has a good record of pointing the right way. They did this before, look at music, which now seems obvious. However, when Apple introduced Ipod, there was a lot of controversy. They tricked the music business into their game. The difference is, this happened in a time nobody really cared about Apple. Now, the opposite is true. Everybody cares about everything Apple does. There is a big spotlight on Apple and they're trying to hide in their own shadow. This is probably their biggest marketing fail. The product is good for what it is. Their vision probably also, but we can only speculate, because Apple doesn't share their vision.

 

[G4DP]

Arn lol I didn't read the article, to be honest, I just saw another FCX headline, and just ranted on....

Wouldn't you agree that the "Pros" should just innovate with the tools they have? meaning just give FCPX a shoot, starting from scratch... I think the pro market needs to THINK DIFFERENT this time around, Not Apple.

It was those same "Pro's", whether it be film, graphic design etc, that helped to keep this company going when it was about to go down the sewer. If it hadn't been for them Apple would not exist.

They have a right to complain, they have been shafted because Steve Job's ego gets in the way. When it goes wrong next time they won't be there to keep the money going into the Apple coffers. The millions of fad followers certainly wont be spending $10,000s of dollars on Apple machine will they.

 

[chaosbunny]

Now where's my retina display iPad? Get on it, Apple!

Nowhere. Because the majority of users doesn't care. They are perfectly happy with the iPad as it is. That's also why it is selling so good and is the beginning of the post-pc-era you know. Why should Apple cater to your own special needs? Since they don't have to, they don't care about you.

 

[Fukui]

Brinkmann NOT a Billionaire. Nuff said.

Publicly traded companies need more than "hey this is cool" to appease
shareholders that expect a return on their investment. Projects that don't
bring in the revenue/profits don't get the most attention.

Sometimes the most important projects are those that don't make that much money. First rule of business after finding your customer: takecare of your customer.

 

[Lumeswell]

The "Pro" market relies or (relied) on Apple, Apple doesn't rely on them... And if the complaining "Pros" will be patient then they're version of what they think FCPX should be, will return soon... but Apple nor Myself will wait for the "Pros" to give there said blessing on the product...

I was trying to avoid getting drawn in to this side of the debate, but this post put me over the edge.

Apple are totally relying on the Pro market to sell this, thats why they put Pro in the title, so every wannabe Joe can say they are using Pro software to cut their home movies. 'iMovie 11' or 'iMove Pro' just doesn't have the same ring to it does it.

I don't care if Apple wants to concentrate on the consumer market, but don't pretend its pro software.

I will take this all back if Pixar and Disney start to exclusively cut all their next film releases in FCPX, and finally drop that bag of hurt in physical DVD and Bluray distribution and stop selling their movies that way.

 

[nuckinfutz]

You are not a billionaire either. So by your very own logic what you say isn't worth listening to (which it's not).

I'm not sure you grasped what I was intending to say. Brinkmann is a guy that loves compositing...it's his canvas. His intention isn't to appeal to the greatest swath of people. Jobs has always wanted to change the world or at the least make an impact that is large and thus his reach is more ambitious than Brinkmann. I certainly didn't mean to state that Brinkmann's opinion wasn't valid but rather one man's passion fuels great software albeit at a niche level and anothers fuels great software at a voluminous level which makes for billions.

cheers

 

[Lumeswell]

Apple has a good record of pointing the right way. They did this before, look at music, which now seems obvious.

I'm sorry, did I miss something - when did Apple change the way music was *produced*?

 

[nuckinfutz]

Final Cut Pro FAQ

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

BAM looks like XML support will be here soon with OMF/AAF and more.

Haha, LOVED ur comment Think Different!

People need to calm down! I am a video producer by profession and guess what? Apple didn't spend over a year and millions of dollars with teams of people and development to COMPLETELY rewrite FCP with a BEAST of an engine under the hood so they can just dumb it down into iMovie!!!
!

+1

I've been waiting for a more modern take on FCP and it's here. Sure it's going to take some major revisions to polish it out and get it settled but i'm looking to start using a DSLR for video and FCPX is poised to handle the modern video recording DSLR very well. The other stuff will come as witness by the FAQ just recently posted.

Now I await the next Logic Studio update.

 

[baryon]

Final Cut Pro 7 was bad anyway. Adobe Premiere CS5 is much better in every way I can think of: It's faster, much more up to date, less buggy, less laggy, and has a much more modern interface, too. It also does everything that FCP 7 did, if not more, especially in terms of file formats.

Here's the way I think Apple thinks:

"Is Final Cut Pro the best video editor out there?" - no, it's as good as the others, at best.

"What can we do to make it the best video editor?" - not much, there isn't much innovation we can think of in the video editing world.

"So then let's do something completely different to make our product stand out and be unique, and reach new kinds of people"

FCP 7 was great but it wasn't the best thing in the world. It was basically identical to all the other editors. What's the point of having yet another identical video editor? Nothing! So then it made complete sense for them to do something different: those who want the classic video editor can use Premiere. The rest can use FCP X, and that's a huge new market!

This is NOT a consumer product. It's not priced as a consumer product and it has features no consumer would want. But it is less professional. However, the professional world is becoming less professional too: camera men are increasingly using Canon 5Ds to record, and edits are no longer done in giant studios but rather on a MacBook Pro right there and then. It requires less people, less time, less effort and less money. FCP X will be perfect for the increasingly simplified workflows of what we used to call professionals.

Real professionals - the guys who make feature films, for example - didn't use Final Cut Pro 7 in the first place. They have specialized equipment for everything and aren't dependent on a single company like Apple.

The problem is that some people are in between, and they don't want to merge with the less pro group or the more pro group. But they will have to eventually anyway.

 

[jntdigital]

OK, im gonna go on record to say that I actually like FCPX, but im not a pro editor by any means so thats just IMHO.

Wasnt there an macrumors article earlier with a guy who had seen it basically saying that FCPX will NOT be ready for professional use, and that Apple has a bad track record for these types of releases? He later backtracked on it under some pressure but this has played out just as he had warned.

 

[rmwebs]

As much as I hate to say this, Apple hasnt given a damn about their pro customers since the first iPhone was released. They saw the kind of cash they could make by focusing on consumer electronics, and hey presto - no more pro niche.

You'd be delusional to think they still give a damn about Final Cut, the Mac Pro, Xcode, Mac OS X Server, etc.

 

[res1233]

I always thought that a Pro was someone that got paid for what they do. I've made my living and supported my family editing video since 1999. I've never used XML, multicam, and realize I can finish my edits in FCP 7 and start new ones in FCPX.

Are there "pros" that are more capable than me. I'm sure there are. Do people need what FCPX doesn't offer. I'm sure there are - but I'm not one of them. Here's to the future of FCPX and to all the money I'm going to make with it.

Question marks are good for you…

 

[ronbrinkmann]

I find it ironic that the guy who whines about Shake makes such broad strokes about professional software when dozens of Apple Engineers spent considerable lengths of time over at PIXAR developing nothing but world class professional software for PIXAR's needs.

Got a lot of friends at Pixar. Don't ever recall them talking about the dozens of Apple Engineers showing up over there...

Pixar's very capable of making their own software, methinks.

 

[Nostromo]

This man thinks his child has been killed by Apple.

Special effects people will know better if Shake was really killed.

Or if it was becoming outdated, and Apple had pulled the plug with reason.

That a new framework had to be written to carry the next generation of special effects software.

One thing he said was interesting: that Apple has the ability to produce great software that focuses on the essential features easier to use (and gives more space to creativity).

Where I don't follow him is that Final Cut Pro X is a good bye to professional users. It's too soon to say that.

 

[jeremy h]

It was those same "Pro's", whether it be film, graphic design etc, that helped to keep this company going when it was about to go down the sewer. If it hadn't been for them Apple would not exist.

This whole mess doesn't surprise me - I've been using Macs professionally since 1989 and I can remember at the height of the problems in the early 90's being invited to some sort of Apple PR meeting (as the company I worked for was a big Apple professional user) - where they were going to sort out the many issues we, as customers were having at the time.

There were quite a lot of us there and we were all really fed up with the way we were being treated and were quite vocal about it. We all felt that we were supporting them in quite difficult times and they should at least listen to us and respond.

The response was quite a shock - the Apple guy was inflexible, aggressive and confrontational - the seminar type meeting broke up with his parting shot that if we're that unhappy we should all switch to the PC. (I think Quark 4(?) for the PC was just about then.)

I personally don't think Apple have ever seen themselves as a pro market company ... "The Computer for the rest of us". The fact they were was more to do with serendipity, fonts, postscript and the laserwriter II.

 

[Reach]

I personally don't think Apple have ever seen themselves as a pro market company ... "The Computer for the rest of us". The fact they were was more to do with serendipity, fonts, postscript and the laserwriter II.

Maybe they haven't seen themselves as a pro company.

They have however always see themselves as a company for creative people, which means most/many creative pros love their stuff. I think they are still aiming at the creative crowd, and FCP X is pretty good for us. It's just not as good (yet) for the more technical crowd. (Yes, I know it's possible to be technical and creative, but my point remains, the niche technical stuff was never Apples primary interest I think.)

 

[MacFly123]

Final Cut Pro FAQ

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

BAM looks like XML support will be here soon with OMF/AAF and more.



+1

I've been waiting for a more modern take on FCP and it's here. Sure it's going to take some major revisions to polish it out and get it settled but i'm looking to start using a DSLR for video and FCPX is poised to handle the modern video recording DSLR very well. The other stuff will come as witness by the FAQ just recently posted.

Now I await the next Logic Studio update.

Haha, I just saw the FAQ post and I was professing my post here as prophecy instantly fulfilled haha

 

[jeremy h]

Maybe they haven't seen themselves as a pro company.

They have however always see themselves as a company for creative people

I actually agree with you.

Prior to the iPod and iPhone most people saw Apple as a specialist graphics computer company for specialists but I don't think they ever saw themselves as that - even when the only people buying their stuff were specialists!

 

[shompa]

Apple makes me a sad panda.

Final cut pro was the software that got me to switch from PC to mac 2002.

Apple has destroyed this great program and I am starting to doubt Apples whole computer strategy.

Apple only cares about mainstream, iphone and Ipad.
To bad. I loved Apple COMPUTER inc.

 

[CJM]

Well.. I could downvote iDisk all day. I'd think he was trolling if it wasn't so consistent.

It is a bit depressing that Apple would move away from it's professionally-oriented roots just to make their bottom line look even larger. I hope Apple pulls out the stops and updates the app with the missing features.

 

[zephonic]

Not sure what the beef is?

I worked in post for a long time and rarely saw FCP in that field. All the pros used Avid or Media 100 and dismissed FCP as "good only for wedding vids".

I have been out of it for 3 years, but did FCP really gain enough momentum and critical mass to become the new industry-standard?