French Court Levies Fine Against Apple for Abusive App Store Practices

[coolfactor]

Wow. If only these devs could choose to not work with Apple. I wonder how many guns Apple held to their heads to force them to develop for iOS?

Yes, it's odd. Apple follows *standard retail practices*, plus investing millions of $$ every year to keep things running smoothly and continually adding improvements, and yet they are being "unfair"?

In brick-and-mortar retail, a store buys products, marks it up 30% to 50% and that's their profit margin. It's been that way for centuries. Apple has 15% to 30% margins, provides free advertising and an industry-leading consumer experience, and they are taking advantage of app developers?

 

[frenchcamp49er]

If you buy a TV, you're not walled-into only watching Netflix movies. You can plug in whatever device you want and watch whatever you want.

If you buy a speaker, you're not walled-into only listening to the music that a single service sells.

Even if you buy an Xbox, you're not required to buy games on the Microsoft Online Store, you can buy from Game Stop, from Amazon, from Walmart, wherever you like

Points 1 and 2 aren't really valid. On the 3rd point Microsoft still gets a cut.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Yes, it's odd. Apple follows *standard retail practices*, plus investing millions of $$ every year to keep things running smoothly and continually adding improvements, and yet they are being "unfair"?

In brick-and-mortar retail, a store buys products, marks it up 30% to 50% and that's their profit margin. It's been that way for centuries. Apple has 15% to 30% margins, provides free advertising and an industry-leading consumer experience, and they are taking advantage of app developers?

No one wants to hear common sense.

 

[coolfactor]

If you buy a TV, you're not walled-into only watching Netflix movies. You can plug in whatever device you want and watch whatever you want.

If you buy a speaker, you're not walled-into only listening to the music that a single service sells.

Even if you buy an Xbox, you're not required to buy games on the Microsoft Online Store, you can buy from Game Stop, from Amazon, from Walmart, wherever you like

If you buy an Apple TV, you're not walled-into only watching Netflix movies. You can install whatever media app you want and watch whatever is availalble.

If you buy a HomePod, you're not walled into only listening to the music that Apple Music sells.

You get the idea. The idea that Apple users are walled-in is a lie that the competition and ignorant users are fabricating.

 

[rbgaynor]

The big difference is is that I have a multitude of outlets to get games at for those consoles. I don't have to use their stores.

If I want games on my iOS devices, I have only (for now at least) one outlet.

It doesn't matter where you buy the game, the console maker still gets paid its license fee.

 

[Ethosik]

Enlighten me. How does one do something illegal with an emulator?🤔

That you think emulator = illegal stuff reveals more about you than the person wanting an emulator.

By your logic, Home Depot/Lowes/Menards should ban the sales of pry bars because thieves can use it to break into people's houses. Who cares if it's an essential tool for constractors to do demonlition work.

It’s a legal grey area. Using pry bars is not. The fact I need to hack my consoles and risk getting banned to do it “legit” is very worrisome. I looked at doing it with my Swich stuff. I’m not risking my account getting banned to do it.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

If you buy an Apple TV, you're not walled-into only watching Netflix movies. You can install whatever media app you want and watch whatever is availalble.

If you buy a HomePod, you're not walled into only listening to the music that Apple Music sells.

You get the idea. The idea that Apple users are walled-in is a lie that the competition and ignorant users are fabricating.

No but they don't allow third services the same access as Apple Music.

 

[genovelle]

There's always android.

The

When Apple allows 3rd party App Store, iPhone purchases will increase. I know many people to prefer Android because it is more "open". If you believe the Apple's App Store is a guarantee for security – no it's not, it's a just guarantee for Apple policies and money. Security is mainly achieved by (good code and restrictions* in) iOS itself.
* This restrictions will automatically apply to apps installed from other sources.

This is completely false. Apple’s process is what makes the OS safe. Google implements “good code” in Android according to their evangelists, but sideloading via alternate store makes it impossible for them to manage their platform because anyone can make a store or app that is unvetted and have it do anything including redirect users to sites look legitimate but are designed to collect your personal data. The $500 million in fines epic just paid highlights another issue. One fine was for deceptive payment practices used to trick users into buying in app purchases they didn’t intend and then making it extremely difficult to find out how to get a refund or cancel a subscription. Then threaten lawsuits if they requested a block via the cc company. None of this happens on the App Store because Apple manages the transaction and refunds are made easily. Something shady companies don’t care for. Another industry that behaves in this way is dating apps.

The plan is get your money, make it difficult to figure out how cancel or get a refund, then hope you forget until the next time you get charged. By the time you get it sorted 3 more payments have been made. They promise a refund but it never comes.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

No one had to have their browser on Windows but that didn't stop Microsoft getting taken to the antitrust cleaners and it won't help Apple either.

Microsoft didnt really lose though.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

No but they don't allow third services the same access as Apple Music.

Why should they?

 

[Marie.D]

Explain what's abusive. No one has to develop an app for either system now do they.

I wasn’t familiar with the case (apart from the base coverage of this article) and was merely reflecting on the ridiculous statement I quoted.

But I took some time aside to dig up what this was all about, and from what I gathered, the main issue was Apple AND Google being able to fix pricing for developers and retro-actively being able to change contracts after agreements, aka being able to force developers new terms and if they disagree they can no longer publish on the store.

Nothing new under the sun for sure, it‘s been run like this for decades, but that does sounds pretty abusive to me.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Yes, it's odd. Apple follows *standard retail practices*

Have to break it to you, but a retailer prohibiting every supplier from selling their products on their own website/channel isn't standard retail practice. Neither is a duopoly of two retailers controlling 95%+ of a market a standard reality. Not in retail.

 

[Wanted797]

“he believes that Apple and Google's app stores take advantage of software developers.”

So Google got a fine as well right?

 

[frenchcamp49er]

When Apple allows 3rd party App Store, iPhone purchases will increase. I know many people to prefer Android because it is more "open". If you believe the Apple's App Store is a guarantee for security – no it's not, it's a just guarantee for Apple policies and money. Security is mainly achieved by (good code and restrictions* in) iOS itself.
* This restrictions will automatically apply to apps installed from other sources.

This is completely false. People dont like android for the reasons they like iPhones.I dont think Apple has any problems selling more ephor than they can manufacture.The EU is 1% of total iPhone app sales, really not even worth having an App Store in the EU.

 

[chivkea]

Seems like EU got jealous of Apple making money and wants a piece of the Apple pie.

 

[coolfactor]

I strongly believe it's time for Apple to change the model.

1. Allow alternative app stores (already in motion).
2. The Apple App Store is no longer free-upfront for developers. They need to purchase a "Business Membership" to distribute their apps. This membership could be $thousands per year.
3. The margin is reduced to cover credit card processing fees.
4. Apple Support team verifies if the app was purchased through the App Store or elsewhere and denies support to those that obtained their apps elsewhere.

Bottom line... app developers have it good right now! But they are poking the bee hive and will get stung in the end!

 

[I7guy]

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

The original material is on life support.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Have to break it to you, but a retailer prohibiting every supplier from selling their products on their own website/channel isn't standard retail practice. Neither is a duopoly of two retailers controlling 95%+ of a market a standard reality. Not in retail.

It's mostly Google worldwide. Further name another smart phone operating system. Maybe France and the EU can develop their own.

 

[coolfactor]

When Apple allows 3rd party App Store, iPhone purchases will increase. I know many people to prefer Android because it is more "open". If you believe the Apple's App Store is a guarantee for security – no it's not, it's a just guarantee for Apple policies and money. Security is mainly achieved by (good code and restrictions* in) iOS itself.
* This restrictions will automatically apply to apps installed from other sources.

False. We have evidence... Android. The percentage of exploits on Android far outnumber iOS, because the apps are the vector, not the operating system. Apple can't protect developers from themselves without strict regulations in place, hence the App Store.

 

[BaldiMac]

No but they don't allow third services the same access as Apple Music.

So? Is that where we are going to next? Forcing product developers to create third-party APIs? Talk about throwing out free speech protections. Sheesh.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Microsoft didnt really lose though.

Depends how you define losing. Gates thinks that the Antitrust suit cost MS in mobile.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

I strongly believe it's time for Apple to change the model.

1. Allow alternative app stores (already in motion).
2. The Apple App Store is no longer free-upfront for developers. They need to purchase a "Business Membership" to distribute their apps. This membership could be $thousands per year.
3. The margin is reduced to cover credit card processing fees.
4. Apple Support team verifies if the app was purchased through the App Store or elsewhere and denies support to those that obtained their apps elsewhere.

Bottom line... app developers have it good right now! But they are poking the bee hive and will get stung in the end!

This will cost app developers 10's of thousands a year if not more. Apple gives away and charges a nominal fee right now, but the French developers will be the first to pay up, maybe the others will have second thoughts.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

No it will not give any hackers the advantage, unless the phones owner opts into it. This is why there is never any balanced discussion. You want your phone secure, then don't opt in. Others have other priorities and knowledge.

If they gain access to iCloud Some Services, and Messages, they could send malformed messages, spam, etc. AirDrop malware, etc. This opens the door to the unknown.
I’m definitely opting-out.
If not enough people opt into these other app stores, these will not be able to financially survive.
The main reason I would like to be able to side load is to install VirtualBox or UTM on my iPad for emergency use.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

I and millions more, the majority will not buy from these new scam stores. Most will shut down within a year or two.

 

[coolfactor]

Have to break it to you, but a retailer prohibiting every supplier from selling their products on their own website/channel isn't standard retail practice. Neither is a duopoly of two retailers controlling 95%+ of a market a standard reality. Not in retail.

You're omitting some important details. It's not like developers are selling peanut butter. They are selling iOS apps... apps written for a specific operating system... iOS.

Apple is not prohibiting developers from developing for other operating systems. The fact that only iOS and Android have survived in the marketplace is not a fault of either Apple or Google. It's because achieving what they have with their operating systems is massively complex and expensive. They stuck it out, executed year after year, while others like Microsoft, Blackberry, etc. threw in the towel when they weren't seeing a return on their investment. They gave up early.

Consumers are deciding the outcome. It's not some conspiracy by Apple or Google.